Z3 or R52 Cooper S?

[Didge3]

I am an unashamed convertible fan - currently driving a Daihatsu Copen which I've had for 3 years (longest I've ever owned 1 car for in 12 years!)
I really quite like it but I am considering getting rid, not entirely decided yet but shopping around to see what takes my fancy.

Currently considering a Z3 or a R52 Cooper S.
Very rarely have more than 1 passenger so the extra seats of the Mini aren't a huge bonus, the extra luggage space they offer is though, luggage in the Copen with the roof down is awful.

Previously had an E46 325, really loved the engine and would probably be looking at the 2.0 & 2.2L Z3's (4 cylinder is out of the question)

Anyone driven both, any opinions?
Don't actually need anything fast, just something fun to drive, the Copen only has 68hp but it rev's to 8 grand and every journey is amusing. Struggling with the idea of getting rid of it but motorway miles are unpleasant in it.
Other fun convertibles will be considered although not an MX-5 or a Z4.

[Jayho]

What your buying and maintenance budget?

Is the 2.8 Z3 not on the list? From what I gather there is very little in it in terms of economy across the straight 6 BMW's of that era.

If you can get it, an early 2.5 Boxster would probably fit the bill. If you're wanting the extra power the 2.7 and 3.2 are also available. But if you're not worried about straight line speed, the 2.5 would be perfect to wring out the gears on a nice back road with the top down and carrying speeds round the bends. 2.5 are also becoming quite collectable in the right spec, plenty of people I know are constantly on the lookout for an unmolested 2.5 in Silver with red interior (concept cars colour scheme). There's a frunk and a boot, so plenty of storage. Between 2 Boxsters we managed a road trip with 4 adults, 6 man tent, camping gear and some spare change of clothes.

[Didge3]

Jayho said:

What your buying and maintenance budget?

Is the 2.8 Z3 not on the list? From what I gather there is very little in it in terms of economy across the straight 6 BMW's of that era.

If you can get it, an early 2.5 Boxster would probably fit the bill. If you're wanting the extra power the 2.7 and 3.2 are also available. But if you're not worried about straight line speed, the 2.5 would be perfect to wring out the gears on a nice back road with the top down and carrying speeds round the bends. 2.5 are also becoming quite collectable in the right spec, plenty of people I know are constantly on the lookout for an unmolested 2.5 in Silver with red interior (concept cars colour scheme). There's a frunk and a boot, so plenty of storage. Between 2 Boxsters we managed a road trip with 4 adults, 6 man tent, camping gear and some spare change of clothes.

2.8 isn't ruled out but generally looking at 2001/2 Z3's as I'm living in a city that may end up with a ULEZ in the coming years. Any of the straight 6's I'd consider.

Budget is about £4.5k but with wiggle room if something perfect came up.
Maintenance budget is more related to parts cost, I do about 70% of tyical maintenance myself so ease of working on is more important to me, Z3 shouldn't be too different o my E46 and I got quite familiar with replacing the cooling system on that
Porsche tax on Boxsters puts me off and doubt they are particually home mechanic friendly, I do my maintenace on the roadside on axle stands! Saying that the Copen is a pig to work on and a PITA to get parts for

[LightningBlue]

Can’t see what your budget is but don’t discount the Mini Roadster and Coupe - no back seats but this is all luggage space so they’re actually very practical. More unique than the hatch too with lower, squat looks. Handling and performance is very good for the Cooper S.

[Didge3]

LightningBlue said:

Can’t see what your budget is but don’t discount the Mini Roadster and Coupe - no back seats but this is all luggage space so they’re actually very practical. More unique than the hatch too with lower, squat looks. Handling and performance is very good for the Cooper S.

Do these use the 1.6 PSA prince engine? I'm only looking at R52's because the later cars have the prince engine which is out of the question for me, my friend has a 208 GTi and its put me off that engine for life!

[Jayho]

Didge3 said:

2.8 isn't ruled out but generally looking at 2001/2 Z3's as I'm living in a city that may end up with a ULEZ in the coming years. Any of the straight 6's I'd consider.

Budget is about £4.5k but with wiggle room if something perfect came up.
Maintenance budget is more related to parts cost, I do about 70% of tyical maintenance myself so ease of working on is more important to me, Z3 shouldn't be too different o my E46 and I got quite familiar with replacing the cooling system on that
Porsche tax on Boxsters puts me off and doubt they are particually home mechanic friendly, I do my maintenace on the roadside on axle stands! Saying that the Copen is a pig to work on and a PITA to get parts for

You'd actually be quite surprised at how affordable some of the parts costs for the Boxster are. Oil is a little expensive for the Mobil 1, but general parts aren't too bad. 986 Boxsters are now part of Porsches heritage / classics fleet, so their prices through your local dealer are actually very reasonable.

[biggbn]

Loved our Z3, criminally undervalued, don't discount the 16v four pot either. Watch rot and subframe failure though.

[ZX10R NIN]

Have you considered that you'll get a nice Z4 for that budget:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312184...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202404269...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401285...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405139...

[Mr Tidy]

You ruled out a Z4, but if you loved the engine in your E46 the pre-facelift Z4s use the same M54 unit so seem the most logical otpion.

I've no idea about their values but if in budget maybe a Nissan 350Z would fit the bill, or a Chrysler Crossfire as they seem pretty cheap.

[biggbn]

ZX10R NIN said:

Have you considered that you'll get a nice Z4 for that budget:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312184...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202404269...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401285...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405139...

I'd have a Z4, and it is unarguably a better car than the older model, but I'd prefer a decent z3. Z3 has more of a classic roadster vibe about it, Z4 styling has never done it for me although that is a personal opinion only

[Didge3]

Just cant deal with the styling of the Z4, it looks so bland to me.

Really scraping the barrel with 350Z's at this price, they're all a bit tired.

[snotrag]

Of your two options, the Z3 all day. They are good value, and have a lovely 'faux-classic' feel to them. Get a 2.8 though if you can, they are out there for that price!

Theres little point in getting a hatchback, even a hotted up one, if you dont need the space - it will never be as fun as a proper sports car.

However....

Didge3 said:

Porsche tax on Boxsters puts me off and doubt they are particually home mechanic friendly, I do my maintenace on the roadside on axle stands!

Thats unfounded. A 2.5 or 2.7 will be no more costly to run than the BMW, parts are not too bad at all, they are good on fuel, and they are very, very DIY'able - I enjoyed working on mine. God quality fasteners and hardware, well designed... Engine is easy to work on, you simple access it in a different way to what your used to thats all, plugs, packs, filter etc are right there in front of you as soon as you have jacked the car up, belts, throttle, sensors etc easily accessible from the top with the service panel open. Honestly - do not let that put you off.

[venster70]

Between a Z3 and R52/3 Cooper S, I would take the Z3.

I speak from personal experience, the R52/3 generation Bini, is a great car, but they have a very long list of reliability issues, nothing 'show stopping' just endless annoying things.

[Didge3]

snotrag said:

However....

Didge3 said:

Porsche tax on Boxsters puts me off and doubt they are particually home mechanic friendly, I do my maintenace on the roadside on axle stands!

Thats unfounded. A 2.5 or 2.7 will be no more costly to run than the BMW, parts are not too bad at all, they are good on fuel, and they are very, very DIY'able - I enjoyed working on mine. God quality fasteners and hardware, well designed... Engine is easy to work on, you simple access it in a different way to what your used to thats all, plugs, packs, filter etc are right there in front of you as soon as you have jacked the car up, belts, throttle, sensors etc easily accessible from the top with the service panel open. Honestly - do not let that put you off.

I read about IMS issues, damp underseat ECU problems etc and the costs to put one right seemed to mount up. IMS is engine out job as far as I can see, likewise for a clutch? I've not ruled it out but the potential for things to go wrong and cost big puts me off

[Didge3]

venster70 said:

Between a Z3 and R52/3 Cooper S, I would take the Z3.

I speak from personal experience, the R52/3 generation Bini, is a great car, but they have a very long list of reliability issues, nothing 'show stopping' just endless annoying things.

Thanks, good to know

[snotrag]

Didge3 said:

I read about IMS issues, damp underseat ECU problems etc and the costs to put one right seemed to mount up. IMS is engine out job as far as I can see, likewise for a clutch? I've not ruled it out but the potential for things to go wrong and cost big puts me off

None of those are specific to a Boxster though other than the intermediate shaft bearing. The costs to fix those things on ANY car will mount up.

Neither the IMS bearing, the Rear main seal, or the clutch requires engine out, no idea where you've got that form. And none of them are particularly things to worry about on a 2.5 Boxster!

A clutch job on a Boxster is absolutely no different to a Z3 or a Mini. On a Boxster its at the back, the Z3 its at the front. and the Mini has it at the side. Thats it.

If your into DIY, you can do it at home. If your paying someone, any garage that can do a clutch on a Ford Fiesta can do a clutch on a Boxster.




Rememer, Minis have geaboxes that blow up. All Japanese cars rot to death. BMW cooling systems are made of toilet paper....

The internet is a great thing but it doesnt half put people into analysis paralysis sometimes, you'd never buy anything if you took everything you read on face value.

Edited by snotrag on Tuesday 4th June 11:06

[Jayho]

snotrag said:

None of those are specific to a Boxster though other than the intermediate shaft bearing. The costs to fix those things on ANY car will mount up.

Neither the IMS bearing, the Rear main seal, or the clutch requires engine out, no idea where you've got that form. And none of them are particularly things to worry about on a 2.5 Boxster!

Edited by snotrag on Tuesday 4th June 11:06

On top of that, all Boxsters are at that age now that if the IMS were to go it would have went by now, and if it did it'd have been replaced with a more robust unit by now.

Keeping drain holes clear and making sure the roof is water tight should avoid any dreaded water into ECU Problems. Even if you're scared of that, you can always cover it in a plastic bag and tape it up.

Providing you don't buy a complete lemon to start off with, as long as you keep up with yearly maintenance with the oil and filter change then you'll be fine. Only extra cost of servicing for a Boxster is that Mobil 1 oil can be a bit pricey, but if you keep an eye out on places like Costco they sometimes stock it for a good price. I just stock up when it's on sale.

[Didge3]

snotrag said:

Didge3 said:

I read about IMS issues, damp underseat ECU problems etc and the costs to put one right seemed to mount up. IMS is engine out job as far as I can see, likewise for a clutch? I've not ruled it out but the potential for things to go wrong and cost big puts me off

None of those are specific to a Boxster though other than the intermediate shaft bearing. The costs to fix those things on ANY car will mount up.

Neither the IMS bearing, the Rear main seal, or the clutch requires engine out, no idea where you've got that form. And none of them are particularly things to worry about on a 2.5 Boxster!

A clutch job on a Boxster is absolutely no different to a Z3 or a Mini. On a Boxster its at the back, the Z3 its at the front. and the Mini has it at the side. Thats it.

If your into DIY, you can do it at home. If your paying someone, any garage that can do a clutch on a Ford Fiesta can do a clutch on a Boxster.




Rememer, Minis have geaboxes that blow up. All Japanese cars rot to death. BMW cooling systems are made of toilet paper....

The internet is a great thing but it doesnt half put people into analysis paralysis sometimes, you'd never buy anything if you took everything you read on face value.

Edited by snotrag on Tuesday 4th June 11:06

I am well aware all cars have their inevitable big jobs that need doing at some point, I looked up some buying guides for Boxsters and that was the source of IMS etc being an essential job to do and that the engine has to come out, obviously whoever wrote that had no idea what they were on about!

I replaced most of the cooling system on my E46 and have had the Daihatsu welded up quite signifcantly so all too familiar with those truths.
I'll have to keep my eye out for a Boxster that isn't silver or black then

[Jayho]

Didge3 said:

I am well aware all cars have their inevitable big jobs that need doing at some point, I looked up some buying guides for Boxsters and that was the source of IMS etc being an essential job to do and that the engine has to come out, obviously whoever wrote that had no idea what they were on about!

I replaced most of the cooling system on my E46 and have had the Daihatsu welded up quite signifcantly so all too familiar with those truths.
I'll have to keep my eye out for a Boxster that isn't silver or black then

Unless it's a 2.5 silver with the red interior, if it is the I recommend snapping it up, hahaha. That colour scheme is getting quite collectable from Porsche groups as it was the colour scheme for the concept car and the subsequent anniversary model released couple of years ago.

[MattBee]

Having owned both a Z3 and an R53 Cooper S, whilst I preferred the way the Z3 looked both inside & out, I enjoyed driving the Mini far more.