EV used prices (bottom of the market?)

EV used prices (bottom of the market?)

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Discussion

jonflat2

Original Poster:

18 posts

88 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
I’ve been keeping half an eye on used EVs (a Tesla Model 3 looks like it would tick a few boxes for me) - but interested in peoples thoughts on where prices might still be heading.

There seems to have been some big price corrections over the last few months. Using one of those Autotrader price tracking extensions for Chrome, some of the price drops from dealers on older stock is a bit of an eye opener.

That said, whilst prices are looking rather tempting - I’m just wondering how much more of a drop we’ll see on these types of vehicles and whether it’s worth sitting it out a bit longer? Or if the market for these sorts of cars have found its level?

Edited by jonflat2 on Tuesday 30th April 09:33

J4CKO

42,768 posts

207 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
A little way to go I think, then there will be an explosion in Model 3s wazzing round rslightly opey areas with those window aero things on driven by folk who said they would never have an EV as they couldnt get their head round that they were 50 grand plus, when they are 10 to 15, they will buy them, others will see and want a piece of that action.

jonflat2

Original Poster:

18 posts

88 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Ha. You might well be right :-)

The 2019/2020 Model 3s are starting to look like reasonable value - especially as a little town runaround (school run / shopping).

That said, I’m not in a rush so if prices are going to continue to slide, I’d be happy to hang-fire.

Robertb

2,067 posts

245 months

Tuesday 30th April
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E-Tron Audis look good value too.

A friend had an early-ish Model S, he sold it as it was starting to get a bit eccentric and took an age to get going in the morning, a bit like an old laptop.

My concern is the extent to which Tesla etc will continue to support older cars and where you will take it if the brains start playing up... I'm not worried about the batteries particularly, more the other bits. I'd want a comprehensive warranty, it will be interesting to see the prospects for EV "sheds".

Edited by Robertb on Tuesday 30th April 09:51

Wills2

24,319 posts

182 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all

It's not an asset class, there is no bottom of the market, just like a Mondeo they will keep dropping as they age and get superseded by newer models.


Truckosaurus

12,034 posts

291 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Wills2 said:
It's not an asset class, there is no bottom of the market, just like a Mondeo they will keep dropping as they age and get superseded by newer models.

Indeed. It wasn't that long ago that a 10 year old run of the mill mid-sized ICE (eg. Mondeos, 3-series, Volvo, etc) with 100k+ miles on it was only worth a Grand or so. I can't see that EVs will be any different.

Cheap Supermini sized EVs will surely find a niche from city dwellers who can live with public charging as a charge will last a few weeks.

jonflat2

Original Poster:

18 posts

88 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Totally agree cars are not an asset class, as such. However, the way that values have tumbled over the last 6months or so does suggest that a price ‘correction’ has occurred (or is occurring) - rather than a more normal reduction of value over time) - if that makes sense.

Trevor555

4,504 posts

91 months

Tuesday 30th April
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I collected an E-Niro from a customer last week.

They said they were fed up with owning an EV

They got stuck waiting at Rugby services for 1hr 40mins for a charger, whilst loads of free Tesla chargers.

So I don't think everyone is "lovin it"

So maybe they'll drop some more.

Edited by Trevor555 on Tuesday 30th April 10:54

J1990

836 posts

60 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
The bottom of the market is going to occur at that 8 year mark, where the battery warranty expires and they effectively become sheds that are run until they break and then good only for parts.

As to whether or not that bottom will be much lower than the current prices, I have no idea. I'd be looking at it purely as just how much of a drop you could stomach for the total cost of ownership to be comparable or better than your ICE alternative. Personally, I'm looking at an EV6 for £30-35k and if it's worth £10k in 3 years I'll have spent less than our current ICE equivalent family car cost me over the last 3 years. Realistically I expect it to be worth closer to the GFV the finance companies are banding around (£17-18k) and I'll also likely have a significant cost saving (15k miles/yr with most of the charging from solar or night tariff).
My current decision is between buying outright and financing via Oracle or similar for the safety net of a GFV, however the interest rates I'm being quoted (10.9%) eat away at those savings I think if the price dropped too heard I'd just keep it as it's a lot of car for the money and would still have 2 years of warranty left.

romft123

976 posts

11 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
J1990 said:
The bottom of the market is going to occur at that 8 year mark, where the battery warranty expires and they effectively become sheds that are run until they break and then good only for parts.

As to whether or not that bottom will be much lower than the current prices, I have no idea. I'd be looking at it purely as just how much of a drop you could stomach for the total cost of ownership to be comparable or better than your ICE alternative. Personally, I'm looking at an EV6 for £30-35k and if it's worth £10k in 3 years I'll have spent less than our current ICE equivalent family car cost me over the last 3 years. Realistically I expect it to be worth closer to the GFV the finance companies are banding around (£17-18k) and I'll also likely have a significant cost saving (15k miles/yr with most of the charging from solar or night tariff).
My current decision is between buying outright and financing via Oracle or similar for the safety net of a GFV, however the interest rates I'm being quoted (10.9%) eat away at those savings I think if the price dropped too heard I'd just keep it as it's a lot of car for the money and would still have 2 years of warranty left.
£35k to £10k valuation in 3 years.....................................WHAT!

LowTread

4,455 posts

231 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Paid £19k for my Model 3 LR with 65k miles in Feb this year from a private seller.

Rare as it has a factory towbar (cannot retrofit these).

Looks like i'd be lucky to get £18k now 5k miles later.

It's saved me £400 in "fuel" in that time, so that helps soften the blow hehe

Hoping to run it for the remainder of the 8 year/120k miles drivetrain warranty (end of 2027) and then either continue to run it or swap it for a newer one, at which point mine should still be worth £10k-£12k or so.

98elise

28,178 posts

168 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
Truckosaurus said:
Wills2 said:
It's not an asset class, there is no bottom of the market, just like a Mondeo they will keep dropping as they age and get superseded by newer models.

Indeed. It wasn't that long ago that a 10 year old run of the mill mid-sized ICE (eg. Mondeos, 3-series, Volvo, etc) with 100k+ miles on it was only worth a Grand or so. I can't see that EVs will be any different.

Cheap Supermini sized EVs will surely find a niche from city dwellers who can live with public charging as a charge will last a few weeks.
They will likely bottom out higher than an ICE though. The value of a second hand battery is quite high despite people telling you scrap yards are full of unwanted batteries waiting to be put into land fill.

A used tesla module will cost you about £800 (last time I looked)




J1990

836 posts

60 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
romft123 said:
J1990 said:
The bottom of the market is going to occur at that 8 year mark, where the battery warranty expires and they effectively become sheds that are run until they break and then good only for parts.

As to whether or not that bottom will be much lower than the current prices, I have no idea. I'd be looking at it purely as just how much of a drop you could stomach for the total cost of ownership to be comparable or better than your ICE alternative. Personally, I'm looking at an EV6 for £30-35k and if it's worth £10k in 3 years I'll have spent less than our current ICE equivalent family car cost me over the last 3 years. Realistically I expect it to be worth closer to the GFV the finance companies are banding around (£17-18k) and I'll also likely have a significant cost saving (15k miles/yr with most of the charging from solar or night tariff).
My current decision is between buying outright and financing via Oracle or similar for the safety net of a GFV, however the interest rates I'm being quoted (10.9%) eat away at those savings I think if the price dropped too heard I'd just keep it as it's a lot of car for the money and would still have 2 years of warranty left.
£35k to £10k valuation in 3 years.....................................WHAT!
I don't expect it to depreciate by £25k in 3 years, my point is that even if it does I will 'break even' vs my current ICE family car. If it depreciates further then I would've been better sticking with a new lease on an ICE vehicle, if it depreciates less then it's a good financial choice for my criteria.
Realistically, it costs what it costs and I'll hope prices stay relatively strong but with EV tech moving quickly the future values are somewhat of a mystery. I'd like to think the finance companies' GFV's aren't out by a margin of 80% though and I should get some savings.

SWoll

19,165 posts

265 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
You do need to ask how much will you potentially save on fuel, VED, and maintenance costs in comparison and how does that offset any potential additional depreciation over the time you plan to own the car?

There's also the question of which you prefer? Give a scenario where an EV cost more overall to run than an ICE (even without depreciation) I'd still pick the EV for daily duties as for me they are just so much better at it.

VeeReihenmotor6

2,340 posts

182 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
I must admit they are starting to look attractive. The poster above who bought the 65k one for £19k and plans to run for the drivetrain warranty and either sell or keep illustrates how they can now be a pretty cheap A-B car for a 3-4 year timeframe, if you plan to the traditional buy outright (or part loan, cash) and sell later on vs paying, what, £6-8k per annum on a lease for a new one.






JackJarvis

2,565 posts

141 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
jonflat2 said:
a little town runaround (school run / shopping).
Is a Model 3 really what you need for that?

LowTread

4,455 posts

231 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
I must admit they are starting to look attractive. The poster above who bought the 65k one for £19k and plans to run for the drivetrain warranty and either sell or keep illustrates how they can now be a pretty cheap A-B car for a 3-4 year timeframe, if you plan to the traditional buy outright (or part loan, cash) and sell later on vs paying, what, £6-8k per annum on a lease for a new one.
Mine was 50% equity from my prev car. 50% on a 0% balance transfer (with tiny fee). So very little in interest. £250/month for 3 years after the 50% deposit.

On Octopus at 7.5p/kwh it's roughly 5x cheaper than my previous car in "fuel", and that was a hybrid that did 60mpg. It's 10x cheaper than my BMW M2 was to fuel.

I'm assuming in 3 years time when it's fully paid off it'll be worth around £10k (seems pessimistic given Model S prices though), and being a Long Range with dual motors and 400bhp+ i'm thinking there'll always be a market for them, even if just for the drivetrain.

So about £3k/year in depreciation i reckon. Pretty much what i'd expect on a ~£20k car.

54k miles over 3 yrs at 60mpg in the petrol hybrid is £6k in petrol.

54k miles over 3 yrs assuming 95% at home and 5% on public chargers (45p/kwh at tesla superchargers) is £1.5k

So across the 3 yrs there's a £4.5k saving right there, or roughly £120/month.

What's nice is that rather than having a petrol "budget" each month i've just added £30/month onto the elec direct debit, and then i don't really think about fuel as an extra thing i need to budget for.

TBH even if the costs were the same i'd still have the EV. I just prefer it and it's more convenient for my usage as all of my regular journeys are sub-200 miles and i can "fuel" it from my own supply at home rather than having to go to a garage and wait for a pump while Doris does her weekly shop hehe

Though longer journeys are not hard either. I did 1300 miles in one week up to Scotland in the Model 3 last month.

Edited by LowTread on Tuesday 30th April 13:26

VeeReihenmotor6

2,340 posts

182 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
That's good to know LowTread. I am one of the typical people who does the odd longer trip and keep putting off the switch to EV becuase "i can't be bothered to charge enroute". For everyday driving though they make perfect sense for me and the convienence to charge from home and forget about petrol is a no brainer.

I like the model 3 but wish they did it as an estate from the beginning as I have dogs and kids etc.




LowTread

4,455 posts

231 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
That's good to know LowTread. I am one of the typical people who does the odd longer trip and keep putting off the switch to EV becuase "i can't be bothered to charge enroute". For everyday driving though they make perfect sense for me and the convienence to charge from home and forget about petrol is a no brainer.

I like the model 3 but wish they did it as an estate from the beginning as I have dogs and kids etc.



More of a cat person myself, but i do have two quite lanky kids.

Towbar means i can carry bikes and the two "boots" came in handy in scotland.

I take your point though. I don't get why first tesla had to be a saloon. Guessing american market perhaps?

OutInTheShed

9,272 posts

33 months

Tuesday 30th April
quotequote all
I've been watching prices of i3 for a while.
A lot seem to have lost a big slice in the last year.
Likewise short range leaves are cheaper than chips now.

Teslas are starting to get near £10k.
But that's a 10 year old car with no warranty and a lot of 'software'.

The Kona can be down to about £15k now, for a car with decent range and only 3 years old.

In 2 years time, there should be a whole lot more Konas about which means a 5 year old one might be even cheaper.
Or there might be a lot of demand, because loads of people will want them?

I think a lot of aging short range EVs might have a fair bit more value to lose.
But, I think the values of many used IC cars are in for a total kicking.
Some petrol cars which are £25k now could be quite unattractive in 2 or 3 years.

The big thing is, you can't see very far ahead.
The 'rules' of depreciation and residual value are in the bin.
Game-Changing events are still havign effects rippling through the system.
It's possible new EVs could get significantly cheaper.

Personally I think buying a £15k Kona and writing it off over 5 years looks like value.
Buying a £10k Tesla, I think you might have to write its value down over not many years, so the cost per year could be more?

As with some other things, it helps to know when to sell and to be lucky.