M12 GTO3R vs Exige V6
Discussion
Similar questions have been asked, but not quite what I'm looking at, so.....
Looking for opinions on the comparisons between MODIFIED M12 GTO3R and MODIFIED Exige 350. The M12 would get hybrid turbos and remap, the Exige the Komo tec 460 kit.
M12 concerns - lack of any driver aids, maintenance costs, lack of any luggage space!
Exige concerns - gearbox longevity at 460bhp, depreciation?
Car would be mainly road use, occasional track day. I have other cars, so would be for occasional use.
Thanks in advance for opinions.
Looking for opinions on the comparisons between MODIFIED M12 GTO3R and MODIFIED Exige 350. The M12 would get hybrid turbos and remap, the Exige the Komo tec 460 kit.
M12 concerns - lack of any driver aids, maintenance costs, lack of any luggage space!
Exige concerns - gearbox longevity at 460bhp, depreciation?
Car would be mainly road use, occasional track day. I have other cars, so would be for occasional use.
Thanks in advance for opinions.
I've driven the V6 and own an M12 and they are surprisingly different.
M12 is easier to use on a daily basis, whereas the exige can feel like you are sitting in a bathtub. The noble is also more refined with a better ride, but feels more special, mainly due to the rarity and looks.
The Exige has more feelsome but much heavier steering, especially at speed. Both engines are more linear than you expect and make very different noises, the noble sounds like an aeroplane about to take off with a lovely rumble (tvr like) at low speed, whereas the exige has a more traditional V6 roar, down to personal preference which you prefer. The exige has a better gearshift and driving position.
For road use I prefer the noble, track use probably the exige. I hope this helps, both great cars.
M12 is easier to use on a daily basis, whereas the exige can feel like you are sitting in a bathtub. The noble is also more refined with a better ride, but feels more special, mainly due to the rarity and looks.
The Exige has more feelsome but much heavier steering, especially at speed. Both engines are more linear than you expect and make very different noises, the noble sounds like an aeroplane about to take off with a lovely rumble (tvr like) at low speed, whereas the exige has a more traditional V6 roar, down to personal preference which you prefer. The exige has a better gearshift and driving position.
For road use I prefer the noble, track use probably the exige. I hope this helps, both great cars.
Edited by Jonstar on Friday 12th April 23:10
I'm a long term GTO-3R owner and have had a number of standard and modified V6 Exiges over the years inc a Komotec CUP
Totally agree with the above, the Noble road manners are amazing and with the fitted luggage, 2 weeks away with careful planning is very doable.
Obviously the V6 Exiges are much newer and more basic than the Noble though, so less tends to go wrong and the Exiges are far easier to work on than the Noble.
It's a great choice to have!
Totally agree with the above, the Noble road manners are amazing and with the fitted luggage, 2 weeks away with careful planning is very doable.
Obviously the V6 Exiges are much newer and more basic than the Noble though, so less tends to go wrong and the Exiges are far easier to work on than the Noble.
It's a great choice to have!
Will - thanks, very helpful. It won't need to do much luggage carrying, but that's good to know - I didn't think that amount would be possible! Yes, the "less to go wrong" is a consideration - I've read mixed opinions from owners on M12 reliability!
Keo - thank you, that's a very kind offer. I'm in Lincs, so it may be a little far, unfortunately.
I think the biggest let down for the Noble is the engine tbh. It's really old school and just as you get going it stops dead. The Exige in that respect trumps it, sounds epic. As does the driving position, offset pedals in the M12 (for me) were terrible. Cabin heat management is also an issue. Parts supply is going to be an issue and the age of them means that they need a more comprehensive plan, this is not cheap. It is a glorified kit car, but the ride is amazing for what it is, a wonderful handling car. I have been on trackdays with a few Exige guys and they like them, they do go well, but have known issues of their own.
Lastly, the temptation to tweak an M12 is going to be high
My advice is start with an M400 in the first place.
Lastly, the temptation to tweak an M12 is going to be high
My advice is start with an M400 in the first place. All excellent points, Carlo, thanks.
Do you mean that the M12 engine runs out of puff too soon? Good point about the M400 - tweaking is inevitable! I do already a kit car (modified GBS Zero), so am used to that feel - I just want something with a bit more power...and doors/roof are sometimes nice to have :-)
Richard-u5uv8 said:
All excellent points, Carlo, thanks.
Do you mean that the M12 engine runs out of puff too soon? Good point about the M400 - tweaking is inevitable! I do already a kit car (modified GBS Zero), so am used to that feel - I just want something with a bit more power...and doors/roof are sometimes nice to have :-)
For me it was mega at 8/10. I used to hit the limiter frequently as it never really built up to a crescendo. Like many turbocharged engines I guess. However, very little covers ground as well on UK roads. Speak to Matt at Jetstream. Do you mean that the M12 engine runs out of puff too soon? Good point about the M400 - tweaking is inevitable! I do already a kit car (modified GBS Zero), so am used to that feel - I just want something with a bit more power...and doors/roof are sometimes nice to have :-)
Re the Noble,I had a 3R for a year and I’ve now had my M400 for 17 years. It’s now done about 50k miles. Failures have been both manifolds cracked( common problem and upgraded type available),oil cooler,the rad sprung a tiny leak and a battery … that’s it in 17 years.The rest has been upgrades cos I wanted to, or were possible weak points like the trans tunnel mod for a cooler interior,high pressure fuel hoses,intercooler,exhaust etc,however it’s been serviced every year irrespective of mileage which has maybe helped. It’s only just had its first set of discs,
I thought about selling 2 years ago,couldn’t find anything remotely as interesting or enjoyable at nigh on twice the money,so went for some more mild upgrades like valve springs ( now it does rev!) injectors and a map etc. Another 45/50 bhp (including the earlier bits) has completely ditched any more thoughts of selling.One of the options I drove when I wilted was an Evora GT410 Sport,which was lovely and more practical,but simply nowhere near as explosive,intimate and it felt positively grown up and heavy ! against the Noble.
Plenty of brilliant advice on the FB pages, and a lot of the concerns you may have like the gear change can be sorted (M400 linkage makes it better),the driving position is improved on the very late 3R’s etc.Theres some nice cars coming up on the FB forums soon going by someone who asked if anyone is selling.
Picture just because I bloody can !
I thought about selling 2 years ago,couldn’t find anything remotely as interesting or enjoyable at nigh on twice the money,so went for some more mild upgrades like valve springs ( now it does rev!) injectors and a map etc. Another 45/50 bhp (including the earlier bits) has completely ditched any more thoughts of selling.One of the options I drove when I wilted was an Evora GT410 Sport,which was lovely and more practical,but simply nowhere near as explosive,intimate and it felt positively grown up and heavy ! against the Noble.
Plenty of brilliant advice on the FB pages, and a lot of the concerns you may have like the gear change can be sorted (M400 linkage makes it better),the driving position is improved on the very late 3R’s etc.Theres some nice cars coming up on the FB forums soon going by someone who asked if anyone is selling.
Picture just because I bloody can !
Edited by sjc on Friday 12th April 20:26
Richard-u5uv8 said:
Thanks - really helpful. I've heard the M12 ride is much better. How much "worse"/less feel is the steering compared with the Exige.
The M12 really appeals for rarity and feeling special - despite the interior! - and given it's mostly road use, I'm definitely leaning that way.....
Quite a bit worse, but you are comparing a car with near perfect steering feel to a car with excellent steering feel, both are very good. The trade off with the noble is it's much more manoeuvrable at lower speed due to the power steering. The M12 really appeals for rarity and feeling special - despite the interior! - and given it's mostly road use, I'm definitely leaning that way.....
carlo996 said:
I think the biggest let down for the Noble is the engine tbh. It's really old school and just as you get going it stops dead. The Exige in that respect trumps it, sounds epic. As does the driving position, offset pedals in the M12 (for me) were terrible. Cabin heat management is also an issue. Parts supply is going to be an issue and the age of them means that they need a more comprehensive plan, this is not cheap. It is a glorified kit car, but the ride is amazing for what it is, a wonderful handling car. I have been on trackdays with a few Exige guys and they like them, they do go well, but have known issues of their own.
Lastly, the temptation to tweak an M12 is going to be high My advice is start with an M400 in the first place.
Not sure about the engine comments, the noble pulls hard to 6500rpm, the exige rev limit is only around 7000rpm so not much different really. I actually think the nobles engine is more characterful than the exige, proper big chested feel and sound to it.Lastly, the temptation to tweak an M12 is going to be high
My advice is start with an M400 in the first place. Jonstar said:
carlo996 said:
I think the biggest let down for the Noble is the engine tbh. It's really old school and just as you get going it stops dead. The Exige in that respect trumps it, sounds epic. As does the driving position, offset pedals in the M12 (for me) were terrible. Cabin heat management is also an issue. Parts supply is going to be an issue and the age of them means that they need a more comprehensive plan, this is not cheap. It is a glorified kit car, but the ride is amazing for what it is, a wonderful handling car. I have been on trackdays with a few Exige guys and they like them, they do go well, but have known issues of their own.
Lastly, the temptation to tweak an M12 is going to be high My advice is start with an M400 in the first place.
Not sure about the engine comments, the noble pulls hard to 6500rpm, the exige rev limit is only around 7000rpm so not much different really. I actually think the nobles engine is more characterful than the exige, proper big chested feel and sound to it.Lastly, the temptation to tweak an M12 is going to be high
My advice is start with an M400 in the first place. Thanks... Yes I've read about the valve springs.
That's good to know on the steering front. Low speed manouverability isn't really an issue for me to be honest... Happy to put up with that as a compromise, particularly as it won't do much low speed work! However, I'm still leaning towards the Noble. I think I fell in love with them many years ago and haven't scratched that itch. Not the right reason to get a car though, I've made some bad heart over head purchases before!
That's good to know on the steering front. Low speed manouverability isn't really an issue for me to be honest... Happy to put up with that as a compromise, particularly as it won't do much low speed work! However, I'm still leaning towards the Noble. I think I fell in love with them many years ago and haven't scratched that itch. Not the right reason to get a car though, I've made some bad heart over head purchases before!
Richard-u5uv8 said:
All excellent points, Carlo, thanks.
Do you mean that the M12 engine runs out of puff too soon? Good point about the M400 - tweaking is inevitable! I do already a kit car (modified GBS Zero), so am used to that feel - I just want something with a bit more power...and doors/roof are sometimes nice to have :-)
It’s because it’s quite linear, I feel the same about the Atom lump, great torque curve but not as fun as NA for me. Mine was around 500hp, which I reckon is the sweet spot. The updated turbos made a huge difference to the boost, it was genuinely rapid. Most will have a new IC and header tank. I found the Gaz mono’s to be excellent, kept the stock ones for resale. Do you mean that the M12 engine runs out of puff too soon? Good point about the M400 - tweaking is inevitable! I do already a kit car (modified GBS Zero), so am used to that feel - I just want something with a bit more power...and doors/roof are sometimes nice to have :-)
Thanks Carlo, great info.
I think I'm decided on an M12 and am seeing a GTO 3 shortly. Wanted a 3R - even though I prefer the non-leather of the GTO 3 - just the headlights really! It's had most of the upgrades/fixes, but still on original rebuilt turbos, running around 420bhp. Maybe the turbo upgrade will come once I get used to this power level....
I think I'm decided on an M12 and am seeing a GTO 3 shortly. Wanted a 3R - even though I prefer the non-leather of the GTO 3 - just the headlights really! It's had most of the upgrades/fixes, but still on original rebuilt turbos, running around 420bhp. Maybe the turbo upgrade will come once I get used to this power level....
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