Discussion
We are in the market, sort off, to trade away from our Forester XT. The high Tax and low mpg combined with the reason why we bought it in the first place, seems to be time for a change. Whilst we have excess solar to play with, I dont want to spend an extra £10k+ on getting a full on BEV, so maybe a PHEV might be the way to go.
But of course there are + and - to everything. Being a heavier car, the lower mpg from a flat battery is the negative, but the pos being we do mainly local miles up to 30 at a time...so maybe a PHEV is best for us?
Do you have one? Which make? How do you use yours mainly?.........
TY
Mike
IF we dont go down that route, then am looking at 2015 Atecas, QQ, Koroqs etc with the smaller petrol engines...(or should I just forget the above PHEV's and just go for them).
We only do about 2k miles pa in the Subaru. 5k in the heap o crap Honda that gets used and abused and have a rag top for summer fun.
But of course there are + and - to everything. Being a heavier car, the lower mpg from a flat battery is the negative, but the pos being we do mainly local miles up to 30 at a time...so maybe a PHEV is best for us?
Do you have one? Which make? How do you use yours mainly?.........
TY
Mike
IF we dont go down that route, then am looking at 2015 Atecas, QQ, Koroqs etc with the smaller petrol engines...(or should I just forget the above PHEV's and just go for them).
We only do about 2k miles pa in the Subaru. 5k in the heap o crap Honda that gets used and abused and have a rag top for summer fun.
We’ve got a PHEV (VW Passat GTE Advanced) and a BEV (Tesla Model 3 Performance) and Hybrid Solar PV.
The PHEV, due to its small battery and use cycle, gets charged less from excess solar and more from Intelligent Octopus overnight cheap rate.
The BEV takes most of the excess solar battery unless I’m out in it when peak excess solar is being generated, then the PHEV gets a mid-day top up.
The PHEV mainly does school runs and round town shopping, meaning that a full battery lasts roughly a day, hence not really worth topping up with the PV.
We also have a convertible (BMW 440i), so that does tend to mean the BEV is around to get plugged in when it’s a scorcher!
The PHEV, due to its small battery and use cycle, gets charged less from excess solar and more from Intelligent Octopus overnight cheap rate.
The BEV takes most of the excess solar battery unless I’m out in it when peak excess solar is being generated, then the PHEV gets a mid-day top up.
The PHEV mainly does school runs and round town shopping, meaning that a full battery lasts roughly a day, hence not really worth topping up with the PV.
We also have a convertible (BMW 440i), so that does tend to mean the BEV is around to get plugged in when it’s a scorcher!
Interesting, a fully brace of EV;s.....
A while ago I was looking at the MIT Outlander PHEV but the battery, used vehicle value around £12-14k, is good for maybe 20 miles winter/30 summer. Then theres the heavy car itself that does around 32/33 mpg flat battery.....
Have looked up the C5 aircross. (The pug is too new and too much £££)...Battery range seems similar to the Mit.
I ideally want to keep under £14k for the car with my Forester as trade in around £8.5k.
A while ago I was looking at the MIT Outlander PHEV but the battery, used vehicle value around £12-14k, is good for maybe 20 miles winter/30 summer. Then theres the heavy car itself that does around 32/33 mpg flat battery.....
Have looked up the C5 aircross. (The pug is too new and too much £££)...Battery range seems similar to the Mit.
I ideally want to keep under £14k for the car with my Forester as trade in around £8.5k.
We have a Volvo XC60 T8. I’m not sure you’re going to find PHEVs much cheaper to buy than EV. They struck me as similar prices when we were shopping, but I’ve not looked in a while.
Ours has a 30-40 mile range depending on how cold it is, so copes perfectly with my 22 mile round trip commute and local shopping duties.
We don’t find it is less economical than a comparable ICE powered car - we get 40s (38-48) MPG out of ours when the battery is drained on long distance trips. I’m given to understand that the non PHEV version of the XC60, though lighter, gets nowhere close to that economy.
Ours has a 30-40 mile range depending on how cold it is, so copes perfectly with my 22 mile round trip commute and local shopping duties.
We don’t find it is less economical than a comparable ICE powered car - we get 40s (38-48) MPG out of ours when the battery is drained on long distance trips. I’m given to understand that the non PHEV version of the XC60, though lighter, gets nowhere close to that economy.
I picked up a p400 fpace phev a couple of weeks ago.
It's a lovely place to be.
Done 1000 mile so far a mixture of a 60 mile each way commute and local running around.
Overall average is currently 46mpg but that's increasing each trip.
Charge on a three pin overnight and seem to get a bout 30 miles battery only.
When it's flat tho, at motorway speeds mpg is awful, sub 30 easily.
It's a lovely place to be.
Done 1000 mile so far a mixture of a 60 mile each way commute and local running around.
Overall average is currently 46mpg but that's increasing each trip.
Charge on a three pin overnight and seem to get a bout 30 miles battery only.
When it's flat tho, at motorway speeds mpg is awful, sub 30 easily.
We have decided that an EV is out. The only one we like is the Enyaq and they go for low £20k's. So thats out.
So its back to a mid sized SUV with good MPG or maybe a PHEV again!
Cars we like are all pretty much the usual suspects. But Fav;s now are . 1 KAROQ. 2 ATECA. 3 QQ. BUT in my mind, the 1st 2 are more like big estates!
So we now have 2 lists. 1st with the Karoq/Ateca on and 2nd the QQ and now the CX5.
Sportages/Tucsons seem to be around the 35 mpg areas, QQ/CX5 40 ish.
BUT yesterday I saw a C5 aircross PHEV....But they are up into the mid teens, so that means could the petrol aircross and of course its sister, the 3008 come into play??????
So its back to a mid sized SUV with good MPG or maybe a PHEV again!
Cars we like are all pretty much the usual suspects. But Fav;s now are . 1 KAROQ. 2 ATECA. 3 QQ. BUT in my mind, the 1st 2 are more like big estates!
So we now have 2 lists. 1st with the Karoq/Ateca on and 2nd the QQ and now the CX5.
Sportages/Tucsons seem to be around the 35 mpg areas, QQ/CX5 40 ish.
BUT yesterday I saw a C5 aircross PHEV....But they are up into the mid teens, so that means could the petrol aircross and of course its sister, the 3008 come into play??????
We have a BMW 330e G21 (2023) and honestly it’s brilliant as a daily driver.
Get the benefits of both EV and ICE without the negatives.
Realistically weight doesn’t impact the MPG much as people like to pretend so when the battery drains there isn’t any downside.
Long term we are on the equivalent of 65-70mpg in fuel and just use a normal electric tariff. We’d certainly be higher if we tried different tarries but then it’s how it impacts the rest of the household during the day.
The technology on how the PHEV works really varies and has progressed quite a bit so make sure you try different models as can be quite varied.
100% have no problems getting another PHEV.
Get the benefits of both EV and ICE without the negatives.
Realistically weight doesn’t impact the MPG much as people like to pretend so when the battery drains there isn’t any downside.
Long term we are on the equivalent of 65-70mpg in fuel and just use a normal electric tariff. We’d certainly be higher if we tried different tarries but then it’s how it impacts the rest of the household during the day.
The technology on how the PHEV works really varies and has progressed quite a bit so make sure you try different models as can be quite varied.
100% have no problems getting another PHEV.
CG2020UK said:
We have a BMW 330e G21 (2023) and honestly it’s brilliant as a daily driver.
Get the benefits of both EV and ICE without the negatives.
Realistically weight doesn’t impact the MPG much as people like to pretend so when the battery drains there isn’t any downside.
Long term we are on the equivalent of 65-70mpg in fuel and just use a normal electric tariff. We’d certainly be higher if we tried different tarries but then it’s how it impacts the rest of the household during the day.
The technology on how the PHEV works really varies and has progressed quite a bit so make sure you try different models as can be quite varied.
100% have no problems getting another PHEV.
We have plenty of "free" solar available.....when the sun shines of course....Get the benefits of both EV and ICE without the negatives.
Realistically weight doesn’t impact the MPG much as people like to pretend so when the battery drains there isn’t any downside.
Long term we are on the equivalent of 65-70mpg in fuel and just use a normal electric tariff. We’d certainly be higher if we tried different tarries but then it’s how it impacts the rest of the household during the day.
The technology on how the PHEV works really varies and has progressed quite a bit so make sure you try different models as can be quite varied.
100% have no problems getting another PHEV.
Ford Kuga Vignale 2.5L DURA D4 IVCT ATK HEV/PHEV
About 30 miles EV range
Apparently the ICE is an Atkinson cycle engine with good efficiency.
With adaptive cruise control and lane assist the Kuga almost drives itself.
We also have a MINI Cooper Countryman SE ALL4 with about 20 miles EV range.
The Kuga is a much better car. In the Kuga the EV and ICE work seamlessly together but the Mini is more EV or ICE but not together.
About 30 miles EV range
Apparently the ICE is an Atkinson cycle engine with good efficiency.
With adaptive cruise control and lane assist the Kuga almost drives itself.
We also have a MINI Cooper Countryman SE ALL4 with about 20 miles EV range.
The Kuga is a much better car. In the Kuga the EV and ICE work seamlessly together but the Mini is more EV or ICE but not together.
liner33 said:
You do 2000pa in the Forester ? Any potential long term savings will be eaten up by the cost to change
But if i had your budget i'd be looking at the Lexus RX
yeh. we bought it as a tow car.....primarily and of course for its big boot. BUT we did do more miles in our other car , as that one does 40 mpg....instead of the Forester, (and to keep the miles low for resale).But if i had your budget i'd be looking at the Lexus RX
In a newer/diff car, we would be around 3k miles pa.
Which RX?? And why?
Actual said:
Ford Kuga Vignale 2.5L DURA D4 IVCT ATK HEV/PHEV
About 30 miles EV range
Apparently the ICE is an Atkinson cycle engine with good efficiency.
With adaptive cruise control and lane assist the Kuga almost drives itself.
We also have a MINI Cooper Countryman SE ALL4 with about 20 miles EV range.
The Kuga is a much better car. In the Kuga the EV and ICE work seamlessly together but the Mini is more EV or ICE but not together.
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much ££££About 30 miles EV range
Apparently the ICE is an Atkinson cycle engine with good efficiency.
With adaptive cruise control and lane assist the Kuga almost drives itself.
We also have a MINI Cooper Countryman SE ALL4 with about 20 miles EV range.
The Kuga is a much better car. In the Kuga the EV and ICE work seamlessly together but the Mini is more EV or ICE but not together.
CG2020UK said:
…….
Get the benefits of both EV and ICE without the negatives.
……..
Same here with the wife’s Kuga PhevGet the benefits of both EV and ICE without the negatives.
……..
30-40 miles on Electric, depending on the temp.
Which covers the vast majority of her journeys.
Only put petrol in it 3 times in 9 months, average well over 100mpg the way it measures..
My next car will be full Electric, the Phev will then be used more for the occasional longer stuff.
Great cars, the best of both worlds for our profile.
Privately owned, bik doesn’t come into it.
romft123 said:
yeh. we bought it as a tow car.....primarily and of course for its big boot. BUT we did do more miles in our other car , as that one does 40 mpg....instead of the Forester, (and to keep the miles low for resale).
In a newer/diff car, we would be around 3k miles pa.
Which RX?? And why?
Reliable when older , good to drive and quality interior that doesn’t age . IMO when looking at hybrids my list starts and ends with Toyota products . I’d look at the 3.5 450hIn a newer/diff car, we would be around 3k miles pa.
Which RX?? And why?
James6112 said:
CG2020UK said:
…….
Get the benefits of both EV and ICE without the negatives.
……..
Same here with the wife’s Kuga PhevGet the benefits of both EV and ICE without the negatives.
……..
30-40 miles on Electric, depending on the temp.
Which covers the vast majority of her journeys.
Only put petrol in it 3 times in 9 months, average well over 100mpg the way it measures..
My next car will be full Electric, the Phev will then be used more for the occasional longer stuff.
Great cars, the best of both worlds for our profile.
Privately owned, bik doesn’t come into it.
The only one I can really see is the Outlander that is roughly the same size as the Forester....ish. OR just forget phev;s and stick with 1.4 Tsi's
There was a similar topic a couple of weeks ago - some good replies in here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
romft123 said:
Nice car BUT the price is way too much for me! And the lexus doesnt get the MPG either so they are both out.
The only one I can really see is the Outlander that is roughly the same size as the Forester....ish. OR just forget phev;s and stick with 1.4 Tsi's
Honestly when it comes to ICE, EV or PHEV I’d just pick whatever car you like best as 2k miles a year you probably are only saving £20 a month. The only one I can really see is the Outlander that is roughly the same size as the Forester....ish. OR just forget phev;s and stick with 1.4 Tsi's
liner33 said:
Reliable when older , good to drive and quality interior that doesn’t age . IMO when looking at hybrids my list starts and ends with Toyota products . I’d look at the 3.5 450h
I agree - where many other hybrids do seem to be an over complicated worst of both worlds compromise, Toyota have it absolutely nailed. I'd forget the Outlander - definitely one of the former. Crap on fuel and crap to drive. If you look i to how the Toyota hybrid system is engineered it's actually much simpler than most conventional ICEs - no turbos, no alternator, no starter motor, no dual mass flywheel, no particulate filter to clog, no timing belts, no belts at all on many of them, no clutch, no complicated autobox or DCT. Combine that inherent simplicity with Toyota build quality and reliability and you have a recipe for an incredibly durable and cheap to run car. There's a reason they're so popular as taxis.
I would look at either a hybrid Rav4 or a Lexus RX. Although with such a small annual mileage fuel costs are surely almost irrelevant.
Also what do you tow and how much off road ability do you need?
Edited by Snow and Rocks on Friday 5th April 15:52
Snow and Rocks said:
liner33 said:
Reliable when older , good to drive and quality interior that doesn’t age . IMO when looking at hybrids my list starts and ends with Toyota products . I’d look at the 3.5 450h
I agree - where many other hybrids do seem to be an over complicated worst of both worlds compromise, Toyota have it absolutely nailed. I'd forget the Outlander - definitely one of the former. Crap on fuel and crap to drive. If you look i to how the Toyota hybrid system is engineered it's actually much simpler than most conventional ICEs - no turbos, no alternator, no starter motor, no dual mass flywheel, no particulate filter to clog, no timing belts, no belts at all on many of them, no clutch, no complicated autobox or DCT. Combine that inherent simplicity with Toyota build quality and reliability and you have a recipe for an incredibly durable and cheap to run car. There's a reason they're so popular as taxis.
I would look at either a hybrid Rav4 or a Lexus RX. Although with such a small annual mileage fuel costs are surely almost irrelevant.
Also what do you tow and how much off road ability do you need?
Edited by Snow and Rocks on Friday 5th April 15:52
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