£20k - fast / engaging
Discussion
I have a budget of approx £20k for a car. If possible I want something that I might occasionally get up on a Sunday morning to "just drive".
Requirements:
- Petrol cars only
- Fun / interesting to drive. I want some engagement at road speeds and am not interested in racing German hatchbacks off the traffic lights
- Automatic - despite the above I think I'm happy with an auto/flappy paddles because most of my driving is not very interesting and traffic is horrendous. Would consider a manual depending on the car though.
- Seat at least 4 adults. Rules out cars which are actually quite fun to drive like MX5s and GT86 type stuff
- Fast
- Don't particularly want to go much older than about 2017 if possible
- RWD, but I guess I'll probably have to settle for FWD as usual due to the lack of cars at my price point
- Reasonably practical as the other car in my household is not practical at all. Tip runs, IKEA shopping, etc, should all be possible
- Won't annoy the neighbours at unsociable hours
- Fuel economy isn't important as I don't do loads of miles. One or two long-ish trips per year but rarely over 8000 miles, if that.
- Insurance seems to be a bit random for me, some cars are very cheap, others are coming in over £1.5k which is ridiculous when I've got something like 15 years NCB, live in a quite cul-de-sac in a small town and am the wrong side of 40. So it is a consideration.
Based on my general requirements I keep coming back to things like Golf GTis and Skoda Octavia VRS Estates but neither of them are particularly exciting to drive. I've had an Octavia VRS for an extended test drive and it was ... ok. I can see the appeal of the platform because it's huge inside and has a decent spec for the price, plus it's not mega slow, but it's obviously compromised.
Note: I had a brand new GTI TCR in 2020 and it was alright but I never thought it was very interesting to drive, certainly not for the £40k-ish price tag which was a lot for a Golf at the time.
There's also a bunch of smaller BMWs that are great on paper but I don't like the image of the 1 series in general, nor did I think they (M140i) were the last word in driver engagement when test driving, although I am stretching my memory back to 2019. I also see things like the 340i/440i coming down in price but not convinced they're very exciting to drive other than raw pace - admittedly have not test driven anything like that yet though.
I've ruled out stuff like the Audi S3/S5 provisionally as well, because when I test drove one around the same time as the M140i I found them extremely uninteresting and boring to drive, aside from being quite fast in a straight line. In the corners it wasn't very encouraging and I don't think there was much in the way of steering feel. This seems to be the experience of a lot of people, even up to some of the RS models. Maybe I'm wrong?
Any thoughts? I am being really picky, so apologies in advance.
Requirements:
- Petrol cars only
- Fun / interesting to drive. I want some engagement at road speeds and am not interested in racing German hatchbacks off the traffic lights
- Automatic - despite the above I think I'm happy with an auto/flappy paddles because most of my driving is not very interesting and traffic is horrendous. Would consider a manual depending on the car though.
- Seat at least 4 adults. Rules out cars which are actually quite fun to drive like MX5s and GT86 type stuff
- Fast
- Don't particularly want to go much older than about 2017 if possible
- RWD, but I guess I'll probably have to settle for FWD as usual due to the lack of cars at my price point
- Reasonably practical as the other car in my household is not practical at all. Tip runs, IKEA shopping, etc, should all be possible
- Won't annoy the neighbours at unsociable hours
- Fuel economy isn't important as I don't do loads of miles. One or two long-ish trips per year but rarely over 8000 miles, if that.
- Insurance seems to be a bit random for me, some cars are very cheap, others are coming in over £1.5k which is ridiculous when I've got something like 15 years NCB, live in a quite cul-de-sac in a small town and am the wrong side of 40. So it is a consideration.
Based on my general requirements I keep coming back to things like Golf GTis and Skoda Octavia VRS Estates but neither of them are particularly exciting to drive. I've had an Octavia VRS for an extended test drive and it was ... ok. I can see the appeal of the platform because it's huge inside and has a decent spec for the price, plus it's not mega slow, but it's obviously compromised.
Note: I had a brand new GTI TCR in 2020 and it was alright but I never thought it was very interesting to drive, certainly not for the £40k-ish price tag which was a lot for a Golf at the time.
There's also a bunch of smaller BMWs that are great on paper but I don't like the image of the 1 series in general, nor did I think they (M140i) were the last word in driver engagement when test driving, although I am stretching my memory back to 2019. I also see things like the 340i/440i coming down in price but not convinced they're very exciting to drive other than raw pace - admittedly have not test driven anything like that yet though.
I've ruled out stuff like the Audi S3/S5 provisionally as well, because when I test drove one around the same time as the M140i I found them extremely uninteresting and boring to drive, aside from being quite fast in a straight line. In the corners it wasn't very encouraging and I don't think there was much in the way of steering feel. This seems to be the experience of a lot of people, even up to some of the RS models. Maybe I'm wrong?
Any thoughts? I am being really picky, so apologies in advance.
alfabeat said:
I keep looking at these! Must go and test drive a couple to see what they're like
alfabeat said:
Another vote for the Giulia! Jaguar XF S, they're a good steer ride well & have a cracking V6 too:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403077...
Or it's smaller sibling the XE S:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403097...
Rather than the Giulia I'd go for the Ghibli:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311184...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401125...
Or the more potent S:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312114...
Megane RS280:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306268...
Kia Stinger GT S:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403077...
CLA45 Estate:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202402196...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403077...
Or it's smaller sibling the XE S:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403097...
Rather than the Giulia I'd go for the Ghibli:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311184...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401125...
Or the more potent S:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312114...
Megane RS280:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306268...
Kia Stinger GT S:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403077...
CLA45 Estate:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202402196...
Nice M2s are starting to hit the £25K mark and seriously worth considering if you fancied stretching the budget.
Main problems in your list apart from budget is that standard the M2 is pretty loud (sets off car alarms in winter) and insurance can be high.
Apart from that it’s brilliant fun, RWD, fast and the N55 cars are bulletproof in terms of reliability. Does the practical stuff and can take 4 adults. Serious amount of car for the money. Fiesta ST for adults.
Downsides are it’s a very firm car, noisy and insurance is pricey. I also suggest winter tyres if you are using it over winter as the rear can be very lively at low speeds.
Main problems in your list apart from budget is that standard the M2 is pretty loud (sets off car alarms in winter) and insurance can be high.
Apart from that it’s brilliant fun, RWD, fast and the N55 cars are bulletproof in terms of reliability. Does the practical stuff and can take 4 adults. Serious amount of car for the money. Fiesta ST for adults.
Downsides are it’s a very firm car, noisy and insurance is pricey. I also suggest winter tyres if you are using it over winter as the rear can be very lively at low speeds.
mjf1 said:
...snip...
I've ruled out stuff like the Audi S3/S5 provisionally as well, because when I test drove one around the same time as the M140i I found them extremely uninteresting and boring to drive, aside from being quite fast in a straight line. In the corners it wasn't very encouraging and I don't think there was much in the way of steering feel. This seems to be the experience of a lot of people, even up to some of the RS models. Maybe I'm wrong?
Any thoughts? I am being really picky, so apologies in advance.
I get what you mean about Audi handling, it's not as precise as say the Jaguar XF although the S4 Avant B8.5 has incredible grip on good tyres and can put 85% to the rear axle. Unfortunately, 2017+ would be B9 territory and I think it uses the quattro "ultra" system, which is essentially FWD until it needs grip at the rear. I'm not all that bothered about the whole RWD purist thing, it's not as if we are all drifting around corners on the public roads. I've ruled out stuff like the Audi S3/S5 provisionally as well, because when I test drove one around the same time as the M140i I found them extremely uninteresting and boring to drive, aside from being quite fast in a straight line. In the corners it wasn't very encouraging and I don't think there was much in the way of steering feel. This seems to be the experience of a lot of people, even up to some of the RS models. Maybe I'm wrong?
Any thoughts? I am being really picky, so apologies in advance.
340i Touring could be worth a test drive if you can find one in budget, I think they are only RWD. I've found the F30 steering has a bit of a dead zone in the centre which I don't like, this is on three different ones and all owned from new, but they were x-drive (which also has a bit of a "sitting too high" feel.
ninjag said:
I'm not all that bothered about the whole RWD purist thing, it's not as if we are all drifting around corners on the public roads.
Not to derail the topic (too much) but what has being a RWD purist got to do with drifting around corners on the public roads? Surely the whole "purity" thing is that the front wheels only do the steering and the rear wheels only do the driving?Chris
Mercedes CLA45 AMG shooting brake (looks better than the saloon).
Megane RS280, or if you’re willing to go a little older an RS275 Trophy or slightly newer Cup-S. This trader is well known in the Megane scene and sells some really nice cars.
https://www.performanceonly.co.uk/stocklist
Megane RS280, or if you’re willing to go a little older an RS275 Trophy or slightly newer Cup-S. This trader is well known in the Megane scene and sells some really nice cars.
https://www.performanceonly.co.uk/stocklist
Alfa giulia veloce.
280 horse, petrol, flappy paddles. Looks nice, said to handle better than rivals..
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=relev...
280 horse, petrol, flappy paddles. Looks nice, said to handle better than rivals..
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=relev...
ninjag said:
mjf1 said:
...snip...
I've ruled out stuff like the Audi S3/S5 provisionally as well, because when I test drove one around the same time as the M140i I found them extremely uninteresting and boring to drive, aside from being quite fast in a straight line. In the corners it wasn't very encouraging and I don't think there was much in the way of steering feel. This seems to be the experience of a lot of people, even up to some of the RS models. Maybe I'm wrong?
Any thoughts? I am being really picky, so apologies in advance.
I get what you mean about Audi handling, it's not as precise as say the Jaguar XF although the S4 Avant B8.5 has incredible grip on good tyres and can put 85% to the rear axle. Unfortunately, 2017+ would be B9 territory and I think it uses the quattro "ultra" system, which is essentially FWD until it needs grip at the rear. I'm not all that bothered about the whole RWD purist thing, it's not as if we are all drifting around corners on the public roads. I've ruled out stuff like the Audi S3/S5 provisionally as well, because when I test drove one around the same time as the M140i I found them extremely uninteresting and boring to drive, aside from being quite fast in a straight line. In the corners it wasn't very encouraging and I don't think there was much in the way of steering feel. This seems to be the experience of a lot of people, even up to some of the RS models. Maybe I'm wrong?
Any thoughts? I am being really picky, so apologies in advance.
340i Touring could be worth a test drive if you can find one in budget, I think they are only RWD. I've found the F30 steering has a bit of a dead zone in the centre which I don't like, this is on three different ones and all owned from new, but they were x-drive (which also has a bit of a "sitting too high" feel.
I have a 2011 S5 Sportback currently on 18-inch Cross Climates (albeit with adaptive suspension, dynamic steering and sports diff) and much prefer how it drives to my old work M140i on Super Sports with an LSD and find it much nicer than the much newer M240is/340is/435is I’ve driven. I also find the 2013-2020 S3 hateful to drive, while I will take the S5 out just to go for a drive…Go figure.
I drove the 2017-on S5 Sportback when new, and can barely remember anything about it and didn’t like the B9 RS5 Coupe at all but really enjoy driving my current older one. May be worth trying a later B8.5 one (those were sold until 2016) to see if the supercharged shove and slightly more analogue feel does anything for you…
Another option is the B9 A5 Sportback 2.0 TFSI Quattro 252hp. I’ve recently helped my dad buy one and enjoyed driving it more than the B9 S5 oddly. Sorry for the Audi/BMW monologue but I’ve owned/driven a lot of these…!
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