Different sorts of "auto"
Discussion
I might need to go looking for a small automatic hatchback soon. I don't want to spend more than 7k. There's a variety of different auto transmissions, with differing reliability reputations, automated manuals, CVT and old school torque converter boxes. Trouble is when scanning ads it's rarely I see any clues as to which type a particular car might have (with some exceptions like Honda Jazz CVT). I'm not too bothered about MPG, it won't do many miles, but I want to avoid transmissions with a dodgy record. Any comments please.
I don't think it's as simple as certain gearbox types being more reliable than others. For example within the VAG group I believe certain DSGs are known to be troublesome, whereas other slightly better ones fitted to many of the same cars have proven reliable in service. (dry clutch vs wet clutch perhaps). So you really need to research the reliability record of the specific models you're considering.
Having said that, I think torque converters and CVTs are generally more reliable then dual clutches.
If you want a reliable small petrol auto I'd look for something Japanese, as these are their bread and butter in the JDM.
A neighbour had a vauxhall with an automatic manual box. Ie it used electronic motors to operate what was basically a manual type transmission. It was expensive to fix. I think alfa Romeo used this, where it was called selespeed, and again didn't get a great press
As with the other poster, I don't get on with CVT type transmission, but the japs seem to love them.
I would get onto parkers or honest John and look up which type of auto box each model has.
As with the other poster, I don't get on with CVT type transmission, but the japs seem to love them.
I would get onto parkers or honest John and look up which type of auto box each model has.
samoht said:
I don't think it's as simple as certain gearbox types being more reliable than others. For example within the VAG group I believe certain DSGs are known to be troublesome, whereas other slightly better ones fitted to many of the same cars have proven reliable in service. (dry clutch vs wet clutch perhaps). So you really need to research the reliability record of the specific models you're considering.
Having said that, I think torque converters and CVTs are generally more reliable then dual clutches.
If you want a reliable small petrol auto I'd look for something Japanese, as these are their bread and butter in the JDM.
You believe wrong. Early dry-clutch DSGs were unreliable & then mainly in hot countries (India) & was solved by changing the oil spec.Having said that, I think torque converters and CVTs are generally more reliable then dual clutches.
If you want a reliable small petrol auto I'd look for something Japanese, as these are their bread and butter in the JDM.
The 7-speed dry-clutch DSG with the 1-litre 110 or 115hp engine in a Fabia or Ibiza is fine.
Edited by Glosphil on Monday 19th February 19:05
The Yaris hybrid is good as it's just a Prius with a lower powered engine. I owned one myself, great cars just a bit slow above 50mph on the motorway but perfectly fine. £7k should get you one now prices have dropped back.
Although it behaves like a cvt, it isn't actually one so doesn't have the reliability issues that can come with some of them.
I've driven various DSG gearboxes, apart from the 95hp VW group engine which had massive delays they're ok. the 1 litre ones with 110/115hp are fine.
The ones to avoid are the automated manuals, I've driven to Aygo and it was 1-2 second delay gear changes. I know someone who had a Fiat 500 with a similar gearbox and hated it. Honda never got their own ones to work properly so dropped them after a few years.
Although it behaves like a cvt, it isn't actually one so doesn't have the reliability issues that can come with some of them.
I've driven various DSG gearboxes, apart from the 95hp VW group engine which had massive delays they're ok. the 1 litre ones with 110/115hp are fine.
The ones to avoid are the automated manuals, I've driven to Aygo and it was 1-2 second delay gear changes. I know someone who had a Fiat 500 with a similar gearbox and hated it. Honda never got their own ones to work properly so dropped them after a few years.
son-of-alf said:
I might need to go looking for a small automatic hatchback soon. I don't want to spend more than 7k. There's a variety of different auto transmissions, with differing reliability reputations, automated manuals, CVT and old school torque converter boxes. Trouble is when scanning ads it's rarely I see any clues as to which type a particular car might have (with some exceptions like Honda Jazz CVT). I'm not too bothered about MPG, it won't do many miles, but I want to avoid transmissions with a dodgy record. Any comments please.
Avoid automated manual, go for cvt at a push try and stick to torque converters if at all possible. I wouldn’t have a double clutch unless it’s been really well looked after and have evidence. I would put them slightly better than cvt but worse than TC.
This is talking about reliability of course. You might struggle to find small cars with a TC but they are around. Whatever you do don’t get an automated manual.
My uncle had a Kia Picanto auto, he is quite a technical guy and decided he wanted a torque converter auto in a small car.
I drove it to WBAC for him after he stopped driving and it was truly awful mainly because it was only a 3 speed!
Which meant it was very slow, noisy and uneconomical, at 60 on a dual carriageway it was revving really high, can't remember the exact number but maybe 4000 revs at 60!
No idea about reliability, he only did 2000 miles in 3 years driving to his local shop and back.
I drove it to WBAC for him after he stopped driving and it was truly awful mainly because it was only a 3 speed!
Which meant it was very slow, noisy and uneconomical, at 60 on a dual carriageway it was revving really high, can't remember the exact number but maybe 4000 revs at 60!
No idea about reliability, he only did 2000 miles in 3 years driving to his local shop and back.
Glosphil said:
You believe wrong. Early dry-clutch DSGs were unreliable & then mainly in hot countries (India) & was solved by changing the oil spec.
The 7-speed dry-clutch DSG with the 1-litre 110 or 115hp engine in a Fabia or Ibiza is fine.
Not sure about that, we have one booked in for gearbox issuesThe 7-speed dry-clutch DSG with the 1-litre 110 or 115hp engine in a Fabia or Ibiza is fine.
Edited by Glosphil on Monday 19th February 19:05
Derek182 said:
My uncle had a Kia Picanto auto, he is quite a technical guy and decided he wanted a torque converter auto in a small car.
I drove it to WBAC for him after he stopped driving and it was truly awful mainly because it was only a 3 speed!
Which meant it was very slow, noisy and uneconomical, at 60 on a dual carriageway it was revving really high, can't remember the exact number but maybe 4000 revs at 60!
No idea about reliability, he only did 2000 miles in 3 years driving to his local shop and back.
The Internet tells me it was a 4 speed. I drove it to WBAC for him after he stopped driving and it was truly awful mainly because it was only a 3 speed!
Which meant it was very slow, noisy and uneconomical, at 60 on a dual carriageway it was revving really high, can't remember the exact number but maybe 4000 revs at 60!
No idea about reliability, he only did 2000 miles in 3 years driving to his local shop and back.
stevemcs said:
Glosphil said:
You believe wrong. Early dry-clutch DSGs were unreliable & then mainly in hot countries (India) & was solved by changing the oil spec.
The 7-speed dry-clutch DSG with the 1-litre 110 or 115hp engine in a Fabia or Ibiza is fine.
Not sure about that, we have one booked in for gearbox issuesThe 7-speed dry-clutch DSG with the 1-litre 110 or 115hp engine in a Fabia or Ibiza is fine.
Edited by Glosphil on Monday 19th February 19:05
son-of-alf said:
I...Trouble is when scanning ads it's rarely I see any clues as to which type a particular car might have ....
A good source of info is often the Wikipedia page for each car, if you are lucky someone will have detailed the different engine/gearbox combinations available on different model years.All cars have problems.
If you do your homework you could maybe try a BMW 1 series, petrol, automatic.
Peugeot / Citroen with the EAT6 auto could be ok as well - 208 / 308 / DS3 etc.
I would personally stick to either conventional torque converter automatics like ZF or Aisin and make sure you change the oil at 60k miles. I would not buy higher mileage dual clutch.
At £7k you are really just buying on condition. If your not using the car loads keep the battery on trickle charge - low voltage can play havoc with electrics, including the gearbox.
If you do your homework you could maybe try a BMW 1 series, petrol, automatic.
Peugeot / Citroen with the EAT6 auto could be ok as well - 208 / 308 / DS3 etc.
I would personally stick to either conventional torque converter automatics like ZF or Aisin and make sure you change the oil at 60k miles. I would not buy higher mileage dual clutch.
At £7k you are really just buying on condition. If your not using the car loads keep the battery on trickle charge - low voltage can play havoc with electrics, including the gearbox.
Many thanks for all the helpful and informative responses. The car will be almost exclusively for urban, stop-start family motoring. 8000 miles a year max. My wife will be the main user and she has zero interest in cars "per se", they're there to do a job.
I'm inclined to favour a TC box, she's tried a Picanto auto and liked it, I was amazed at what they are fetching just now however. The next size up might be better value, Hyundai i20 for example, but nothing bigger, and it has to be 4 door + tailgate.
I've had a DSG myself on an Audi TT 3.2 and was very impressed, but she isn't impressed by the same things that impress me. CVT boxes appeal to me because presumably they are set up to ensure the motor is running at its most efficient most of the time.
From the replies here, and reading elsewhere on the web I think I should avoid automated manuals. They seem like a flawed compromise.
There's a few diesel options but I believe that might not be advisable when the car does so many short runs.
I'm inclined to favour a TC box, she's tried a Picanto auto and liked it, I was amazed at what they are fetching just now however. The next size up might be better value, Hyundai i20 for example, but nothing bigger, and it has to be 4 door + tailgate.
I've had a DSG myself on an Audi TT 3.2 and was very impressed, but she isn't impressed by the same things that impress me. CVT boxes appeal to me because presumably they are set up to ensure the motor is running at its most efficient most of the time.
From the replies here, and reading elsewhere on the web I think I should avoid automated manuals. They seem like a flawed compromise.
There's a few diesel options but I believe that might not be advisable when the car does so many short runs.
Edited by son-of-alf on Tuesday 20th February 11:34
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