Buying from online auction

Buying from online auction

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Ex Boy Racer

Original Poster:

1,155 posts

199 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Hi. Asking for a friend. He has just bought a classic car from an online auction. He went along and inspected before buying but unfortunately isn’t very knowledgeable about cars. The seller was a trader.
It turns out that the car is unroadworthy with a lot wrong with it including rust, a knackered engine, poor brakes and other things.
Does he have any comeback as the seller was in the trade? The seller says he had 14 days to raise any issues and it has been longer than that.
My friend is gutted to say the least. His local garage is estimating £10k to get the car straight.
Any advice that might help him would be gratefully received.

Oceanrower

1,045 posts

119 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Two things here.

1. Of your friend isn’t knowledgeable about classic cats then what was the point of him going along to look at it. Take someone who IS knowledgeable!

However,

2. If the auction site happened to be eBay the auction bids on vehicles aren’t binding. If it was a classified ad however, he may have a problem.

Ex Boy Racer

Original Poster:

1,155 posts

199 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Looking to help him rather than judge him…

It wasn’t eBay. It was a classic car auction site. I was just wondering if the seller was subject to normal sales of goods laws even though it’s an auction as he is a trader.

NB. Car is with my friend and money has changed hands

Dan_The_Man

1,087 posts

246 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Ex Boy Racer said:
His local garage is estimating £10k to get the car straight.
I have a few classic cars, I reckon they all need 10K to get straight. He's not very knowledgeable about cars yet but will be after working on it himself and sorting all the issues. Surely after inspecting it in person he must have had an idea what sort of project he was taking on. Rebuild the brakes, get it running and sort the rest over time, you can learn a lot with youtube videos of engine rebuilds etc.

Ken Figenus

5,820 posts

124 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Sounds like game over I'm afraid.

Bargains may not be bargains as the motor trade is far more savvy than us...

Big reason I'd never use an auction site 'dealer' that circumvent trading standards and consumer protection but still demand thousands in commission on say a £75k car but offer NOTHING to the buyer in return...

Riley Blue

21,618 posts

233 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Difficult to comment with out knowing how the car was described i.e. were the issues mentioned at all, was it listed as roadworthy, a project, for restoration etc.?

Ex Boy Racer

Original Poster:

1,155 posts

199 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Said engine recently rebuilt. Not true. Small fortune spent on recent restoration. Not true.
Catalogue of lies to be honest

unrepentant

21,671 posts

263 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Oceanrower said:
Two things here.

1. Of your friend isn’t knowledgeable about classic cats then what was the point of him going along to look at it. Take someone who IS knowledgeable!
What are we talking here. Garfield or something more in the style of Louis Wain?

Simpo Two

87,021 posts

272 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
What are we talking here. Garfield or something more in the style of Louis Wain?
lol. I actually have a Louis Wain. But more seriously, it's an interesting question between either (a) it's an auction so tough luck (b) he's a trader so you have rights.

If the PH experts can't clarify this, I might call CAB for a chat. But the 'cooling off' period is a concern.

unrepentant

21,671 posts

263 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
unrepentant said:
What are we talking here. Garfield or something more in the style of Louis Wain?
lol. I actually have a Louis Wain.
I hope its kosher. Back in my art dealing days I recall a lot of snide Wain's knocking around.

r3g

3,750 posts

31 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Ex Boy Racer said:
Said engine recently rebuilt. Not true. Small fortune spent on recent restoration. Not true.
Catalogue of lies to be honest
Your starting point will be the auction house's T&Cs which you/he would had to have agreed to in as a condition of making bids. I expect there will be quite lengthy paragraphs contained within, detailing the specific and limited cases where you may have some comeback. I suspect one such paragraph will be along the lines of "vehicles are sold as seen with no warranty implied or given. You have x period to inspect the vehicle to ensure you know exactly what you are bidding on. Bids are binding and final. Full payment and removal of vehicle from site must be completed by y".

It's highly unlikely you'll see any of your money back imo. Auction houses have their T&Cs tighter than a duck's ass, especially as you're outside of the cooling off period.

Ex Boy Racer

Original Poster:

1,155 posts

199 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
I fear you may be right. However, surely an auction cannot be such an easy loophole for rogue traders to take advantage of less knowledgeable punters?
If they can’t escape responsibility for a dishonest sale directly, how can they just by using a slightly different channel?
Seriously, the description given in the auction is so clearly untrue in so many ways it is fantasyland. Yet my friend took it as accurate
For instance, he accepted that the engine was rebuilt and upgraded as described. He did not check to see the 3/4 of an inch of crankshaft endfloat. Then again, who would?

Ex Boy Racer

Original Poster:

1,155 posts

199 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
From the t’s and c’s on the ad…

‘If the seller is registered as a private seller, consumer rights stemming from EU consumer protection law do not apply. Car & Classic’s return policy applies. ‘
This was not a private sale.

Yet further down…

‘ This vehicle is “Sold As Seen”, on an “As Is, Where Is’ basis and without warranty. A full inspection of the vehicle prior to purchase and bidding is highly recommended. Photos and descriptions are for guidance purposes only. ’

So no clearer really. But can a dealer really use the sold as seen line?

Simpo Two

87,021 posts

272 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Ex Boy Racer said:
I fear you may be right. However, surely an auction cannot be such an easy loophole for rogue traders to take advantage of less knowledgeable punters?
If they can’t escape responsibility for a dishonest sale directly, how can they just by using a slightly different channel?
Seriously, the description given in the auction is so clearly untrue in so many ways it is fantasyland. Yet my friend took it as accurate
For instance, he accepted that the engine was rebuilt and upgraded as described. He did not check to see the 3/4 of an inch of crankshaft endfloat. Then again, who would?
But he had 14 days to raise the matter and didn't. Auctions are auctions for a reason...

Plan C is to chuck it back into the auction and hope somebody makes the same mistake. Probably cheaper than £10K, and then he can start again older and wiser.

silentbrown

9,340 posts

123 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Ex Boy Racer said:
Seriously, the description given in the auction is so clearly untrue in so many ways it is fantasyland.
Auctioneers would be liable for misrepresentation. But "engine recently rebuilt" doesn't mean it hasn't thrown a rod since then.

Ex Boy Racer

Original Poster:

1,155 posts

199 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Rank endfloat takes time. Clear evidence of an old engine

Ex Boy Racer

Original Poster:

1,155 posts

199 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
For sure they’d was untrue and misleading. The quest is whether my mate has legal recourse against the trader (or auction site)

Freddie Fitch

140 posts

78 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Ex Boy Racer said:
Hi. Asking for a friend. He has just bought a classic car from an online auction. He went along and inspected before buying but unfortunately isn’t very knowledgeable about cars. The seller was a trader.
It turns out that the car is unroadworthy with a lot wrong with it including rust, a knackered engine, poor brakes and other things.
Does he have any comeback as the seller was in the trade? The seller says he had 14 days to raise any issues and it has been longer than that.
My friend is gutted to say the least. His local garage is estimating £10k to get the car straight.
Any advice that might help him would be gratefully received.
Need some more details. What's the car? Need photos.

Beethree

811 posts

96 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Why don’t you ask the auction site?

Wings

5,840 posts

222 months

Thursday 15th February
quotequote all
Beethree said:
Why don’t you ask the auction site?
^^^tempted myself, but I possilby know what their reply would be.

Successful online bidding for a LR Discovery, auction house inspection report gave full mechanical and electrical report. Decided on catching train up to collect car, had to be jumped start to drive car away, only to travel just thirty metres before all dash lights on. New alternator required, auction site either did not carry out inspection and knew new alternator required. Eight (8) hours sat on side of the road, certainly not an enjoyable experience.