Large MPV for short journeys
Discussion
I have 2 year old triplets and am finally succumbing to the reality that an MPV is part of my future. To date we have managed with my JDM Subaru Legacy GT-S with a Multimac, 3x Minimacs and a large roofbox. We also have a Civic runaround which will go to make way for the MPV.
The Minimacs have been fine but are getting too small, and Multimac doesn’t provide a means of rear-facing the children beyond 13kg, but it’s now the firm advice that kids should rear face until 6yo. (Yes, it never did me any harm, etc…)
Contrary to popular wisdom on the subject, and what Multimac trade on, you can in fact fit 3 abreast in most large-ish cars, provided you select child seats to suit (generally the middle seat needs to be of different design to ‘tessellate’ with the outer seats). So there’s probably some solution to continue using the Legacy in the interim at least, but for reasons of peace and family harmony, it would be a big advantage to move that middle seat passenger out of siblings’ arms’ reach and into a third row. Plus mum could sit in the third row and be able to reach everyone (given the rear facing…)
I’m told the third-row seats are rarely actually compatible with rear-facing child seats, particularly their support leg, so for this reason I think it has to be a large-size MPV, which I think would limit us to: Ford Galaxy, Citroen Grand C4 Picasso/Spacetourer or VW Sharan/Seat Alhambra. Or perhaps the JDM Elgrand/Alphard/etc options, but I’ve been somewhat put off the JDM import experience with insurance hassle and getting aftermarket ICE/nav to work seamlessly etc. Van-derived options could work and I note the Stellantis mid-size vans have car-like NCAP safety ratings in contrast to most van-based stuff, but presumably the car-based MPVs would still be considerably more refined. That said, friends who have got into van life have rarely gone back.
The reality of life for a car with a family of 2 years olds is many short trips to playgroup, library, local shop, school in due course, etc. We probably do 10+ short trips of under 4mi (many under 2mi) per week, with perhaps 2x 10-20mi per week, and 2x 100mi+ every month or two, and 2x 250mi+ every 3-6mo. That sounds like fairly rapid doom for a diesel’s emissions control systems, and perhaps almost equally so for a modern downsized turbo petrol too? And those large MPVs are all fitted with one or the other engine type. EV is the obvious answer if budget allowed, but that would be quite limiting for the occasional 100mi and 250mi journeys. The Legacy could step back in there (if the child seats are compatible with both cars...), but that sibling split for harmony is most needed on the long journeys..! If only someone made a PHEV MPV, but I don’t think anyone does.
I’m torn between spending say £4-5k on an older diesel MPV (I prefer the Citroen), accepting our usage profile is abusive and will cost me hassle, money and probably the early demise of the car. Or perhaps spending more like £10-12k, going the 1.2 petrol turbo route and hoping that will suit the usage profile better, but having more to lose if/when it doesn’t. I’m also highly aware that the candidate car manufacturers aren’t exactly the paragons of reliability – I usually won’t buy anything that isn’t Japanese! If there were say a Toyota or Honda PHEV option I’d happily invest considerably more, given I’d have more confidence it would be a long-term prospect, but I don’t think such a thing exists.
Any advice? I know the default PH answer to this question is an S-Max, but I think the third row is too small for rear-facing seats, and driving dynamics is a long way down the priority list, given our other requirements.
If I do go the diesel route – any top tips for assessing used cars’ state of health regarding the emissions controls? Presumably many family cars get this usage profile and then get traded-in when problems arise… So I’d like to start from a healthy point and then try to maintain it as best I can despite our usage profile. OBD2 scanner any use? I know some do DPF and/or Adblue and/or Eolys deletes – I suppose that’s an option if problems arise and are insurmountable, but ethically I’d rather avoid it – but how to tell if they’ve already been done (assuming buying through a used-dealer since so few cars of this type are traded privately – even though that’s what I’d prefer).
In terms of maintaining DPFs despite the usage profile – I know the right class of oil can make a difference, and trying to extend a short journey if a regen begins (but how to know it’s occurring, even in a distracting car full of toddlers..?) Any other top tips in this area would be welcome.
The Minimacs have been fine but are getting too small, and Multimac doesn’t provide a means of rear-facing the children beyond 13kg, but it’s now the firm advice that kids should rear face until 6yo. (Yes, it never did me any harm, etc…)
Contrary to popular wisdom on the subject, and what Multimac trade on, you can in fact fit 3 abreast in most large-ish cars, provided you select child seats to suit (generally the middle seat needs to be of different design to ‘tessellate’ with the outer seats). So there’s probably some solution to continue using the Legacy in the interim at least, but for reasons of peace and family harmony, it would be a big advantage to move that middle seat passenger out of siblings’ arms’ reach and into a third row. Plus mum could sit in the third row and be able to reach everyone (given the rear facing…)
I’m told the third-row seats are rarely actually compatible with rear-facing child seats, particularly their support leg, so for this reason I think it has to be a large-size MPV, which I think would limit us to: Ford Galaxy, Citroen Grand C4 Picasso/Spacetourer or VW Sharan/Seat Alhambra. Or perhaps the JDM Elgrand/Alphard/etc options, but I’ve been somewhat put off the JDM import experience with insurance hassle and getting aftermarket ICE/nav to work seamlessly etc. Van-derived options could work and I note the Stellantis mid-size vans have car-like NCAP safety ratings in contrast to most van-based stuff, but presumably the car-based MPVs would still be considerably more refined. That said, friends who have got into van life have rarely gone back.
The reality of life for a car with a family of 2 years olds is many short trips to playgroup, library, local shop, school in due course, etc. We probably do 10+ short trips of under 4mi (many under 2mi) per week, with perhaps 2x 10-20mi per week, and 2x 100mi+ every month or two, and 2x 250mi+ every 3-6mo. That sounds like fairly rapid doom for a diesel’s emissions control systems, and perhaps almost equally so for a modern downsized turbo petrol too? And those large MPVs are all fitted with one or the other engine type. EV is the obvious answer if budget allowed, but that would be quite limiting for the occasional 100mi and 250mi journeys. The Legacy could step back in there (if the child seats are compatible with both cars...), but that sibling split for harmony is most needed on the long journeys..! If only someone made a PHEV MPV, but I don’t think anyone does.
I’m torn between spending say £4-5k on an older diesel MPV (I prefer the Citroen), accepting our usage profile is abusive and will cost me hassle, money and probably the early demise of the car. Or perhaps spending more like £10-12k, going the 1.2 petrol turbo route and hoping that will suit the usage profile better, but having more to lose if/when it doesn’t. I’m also highly aware that the candidate car manufacturers aren’t exactly the paragons of reliability – I usually won’t buy anything that isn’t Japanese! If there were say a Toyota or Honda PHEV option I’d happily invest considerably more, given I’d have more confidence it would be a long-term prospect, but I don’t think such a thing exists.
Any advice? I know the default PH answer to this question is an S-Max, but I think the third row is too small for rear-facing seats, and driving dynamics is a long way down the priority list, given our other requirements.
If I do go the diesel route – any top tips for assessing used cars’ state of health regarding the emissions controls? Presumably many family cars get this usage profile and then get traded-in when problems arise… So I’d like to start from a healthy point and then try to maintain it as best I can despite our usage profile. OBD2 scanner any use? I know some do DPF and/or Adblue and/or Eolys deletes – I suppose that’s an option if problems arise and are insurmountable, but ethically I’d rather avoid it – but how to tell if they’ve already been done (assuming buying through a used-dealer since so few cars of this type are traded privately – even though that’s what I’d prefer).
In terms of maintaining DPFs despite the usage profile – I know the right class of oil can make a difference, and trying to extend a short journey if a regen begins (but how to know it’s occurring, even in a distracting car full of toddlers..?) Any other top tips in this area would be welcome.
Congrats on the triplets, as your already in the Japanese club how about something like this:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401145...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401145...
In regards to the diesel, a decent run out every few weeks will see you okay.
I'd suggest looking at the i800:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202402016...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312184...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401235...
1.6T Ford Galaxy:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401235...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309292...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401296...
2.3:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309041...
I'd suggest looking at the i800:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202402016...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312184...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401235...
1.6T Ford Galaxy:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401235...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309292...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401296...
2.3:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309041...
There are a quite a few posts on 7 seaters. For 3 car seats in a row you almost definitely want a 7 seater with 3 individual seats. At your price point aside from the above look at the Touran. Some cars don't allow child care seats in the middle seat so do your own homework on the respective car manuals. You'll have plenty of space for a double buggy plus other kit or just like we do occasionally grandparents in the rear most seats.
Many thanks for the replies so far.
I do have some flex on the budget, but only if I can be reasonably confident the car is going to be reliable long-term.
Re the Estima and Elgrand/Alphard etc - there's a well-stocked import dealer in Sheffield so I'll swing by them to take a look at the options. Generally though the seating doesn't seem to be as clever/flexible as the European offerings, but they're generally bigger vehicles so something should work, and of course the big N/A petrols help with the reliability concerns. They do seem to be at least double the cost to insure, and tax and MPG won't be great either, but it would keep me in something Japanese, which does appeal.
Hyundai i800 looks a good van-derived option, though still with the diesel reliability concerns, but perhaps lessened a bit by being Korean. Older auto ones seem to be in the £600-700 tax bracket which I'd like to avoid so would lessen the choice.
The Berlingo XL and its sisters quite appeal and I've actually just been looking at quotes for a new one. Apparently there's a new variant out this year so there might be some bargains on the runout models. For used examples it looks like the Vaux Combo Life is by far the cheaper option and could be had for sub £12k, so I'll try to take a look at one.
R-class and Prius Plus I think probably fall into the C-max/Zafira/Scenic type category and would be too small for rear-facing seats in the third row sadly.
Alhambra/Sharan is a good option on the face of it and sliding doors would be a boon, but I'm just not a VW man and I think they're very overpriced for the age of the design. I'll try to take a look at one nonetheless.
Re the diesels, particularly the Ford, PSA/Stellantis and VW options - how well can you identify when they're doing a regen (and extend the journey to accommodate)? Or is there facility to force a regen periodically when you're doing a suitable journey?
I do have some flex on the budget, but only if I can be reasonably confident the car is going to be reliable long-term.
Re the Estima and Elgrand/Alphard etc - there's a well-stocked import dealer in Sheffield so I'll swing by them to take a look at the options. Generally though the seating doesn't seem to be as clever/flexible as the European offerings, but they're generally bigger vehicles so something should work, and of course the big N/A petrols help with the reliability concerns. They do seem to be at least double the cost to insure, and tax and MPG won't be great either, but it would keep me in something Japanese, which does appeal.
Hyundai i800 looks a good van-derived option, though still with the diesel reliability concerns, but perhaps lessened a bit by being Korean. Older auto ones seem to be in the £600-700 tax bracket which I'd like to avoid so would lessen the choice.
The Berlingo XL and its sisters quite appeal and I've actually just been looking at quotes for a new one. Apparently there's a new variant out this year so there might be some bargains on the runout models. For used examples it looks like the Vaux Combo Life is by far the cheaper option and could be had for sub £12k, so I'll try to take a look at one.
R-class and Prius Plus I think probably fall into the C-max/Zafira/Scenic type category and would be too small for rear-facing seats in the third row sadly.
Alhambra/Sharan is a good option on the face of it and sliding doors would be a boon, but I'm just not a VW man and I think they're very overpriced for the age of the design. I'll try to take a look at one nonetheless.
Re the diesels, particularly the Ford, PSA/Stellantis and VW options - how well can you identify when they're doing a regen (and extend the journey to accommodate)? Or is there facility to force a regen periodically when you're doing a suitable journey?
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