Consumer act - too many hits on this forum

[ascanio1]

I am Italian, recently moved to Britain.

I searched this forum, and there were far too many hits about Consumer Act rights. Apologies for creating yet another thread, if inappropriate, please delete.

For how long does a dealer have to cover a used motorcar with warranty?
It must excludes tear and wear (brake discs, clutch wear, etc). Correct?
Is it easy to enforce or, like in Italy, you always end up in court?

Any comments would be a welcome help!

Regards,

Tommaso

[Scrump]

Welcome to PH.
Others will be along with greater knowledge on the legal side.

To kick things off I will say my understanding:
Dealers have no obligation to provide a warranty.
There is provision in law that the item you purchase from a business should be of suitable quality. If you feel the item is not (e.g. it has broken soon after purchase) then you can ask for repairs etc but this often ends up in court.

[ascanio1]

So why does the market justify paying so much more, to buy from a dealer, in Great Britain? Usually market prices reflect benefits & disadvantages.

[Gigamoons]

ascanio1 said:

So why does the market justify paying so much more, to buy from a dealer, in Great Britain? Usually market prices reflect benefits & disadvantages.

At the mainstream level I think most do with a false sense of security regarding warranties etc, but mainly because a lot of folk need the credit facilities offered.
There is also the fact that dealers have most of the stock... a lot of people when selling (including me) are happy to sell lower to the trade so that they can make their margin dealing with the general public so I don't have to.

At the top end / specialists it's different as you're paying for their expertise / to source the good older cars IMO.

[mholt1995]

ascanio1 said:

So why does the market justify paying so much more, to buy from a dealer, in Great Britain? Usually market prices reflect benefits & disadvantages.

I'd say a big reason for this is that unfortunately it's where a lot of the stock is these days - for instance on Autotrader, our largest car advertising platform, only about 12% of the cars listed are being sold by private sellers. And that private seller number will be artificially inflated by the rise of the "driveway trader" too (a trader posing as a private seller for various unscrupulous reasons).

In my opinion, this is somewhat by design for the most part as selling to the trade over privately has been incentivised further in recent years, due to the proliferation of trade buying services (WeBuyAnyCar, Motorway, even AutoTrader have their own now) and part exchange model as well as the generally unpleasant experience of selling a car privately involving anything from complete timewasters to just straight-up scammers.

In the last few years there's also been the phenomenon of private sale prices being way beyond what the car is actually worth and overly firm expectations from the seller in achieving that price - in those instances, it can work out cheaper to buy from a dealer than privately! Then the private seller's car doesn't sell privately and they end up selling it to WeBuyAnyCar anyway :rofl

Also a big (perceived) benefit of purchasing from a dealer is integrated finance packages. Many don't have the cash on hand to buy a £5k or what-have-you car outright from a private seller, but can afford the £200 per month HP on a near-identical car being sold at a dealer for £6.5k (with 15% interest on top of that) and take the convenience of getting that finance deal at point-of-sale over doing some slight legwork and getting the £5k loan from their bank with much less interest.

[OverSteery]

Gigamoons said:

ascanio1 said:

So why does the market justify paying so much more, to buy from a dealer, in Great Britain? Usually market prices reflect benefits & disadvantages.

At the mainstream level I think most do with a false sense of security regarding warranties etc, but mainly because a lot of folk need the credit facilities offered.
There is also the fact that dealers have most of the stock... a lot of people when selling (including me) are happy to sell lower to the trade so that they can make their margin dealing with the general public so I don't have to.

At the top end / specialists it's different as you're paying for their expertise / to source the good older cars IMO.

The false sense of security regarding warranties I agree with, but is missing the point.

Buying from a dealer, the buyer has considerable protection IN LAW, unlike a private purchase.

[Gigamoons]

OverSteery said:

Gigamoons said:

ascanio1 said:

So why does the market justify paying so much more, to buy from a dealer, in Great Britain? Usually market prices reflect benefits & disadvantages.

At the mainstream level I think most do with a false sense of security regarding warranties etc, but mainly because a lot of folk need the credit facilities offered.
There is also the fact that dealers have most of the stock... a lot of people when selling (including me) are happy to sell lower to the trade so that they can make their margin dealing with the general public so I don't have to.

At the top end / specialists it's different as you're paying for their expertise / to source the good older cars IMO.

The false sense of security regarding warranties I agree with, but is missing the point.

Buying from a dealer, the buyer has considerable protection IN LAW, unlike a private purchase.

Yeah in law it does, but in practice IME it doesn't.
Most used car dealers will do anything to avoid helping out once they have your money.
So whilst the law exists, its just a framework you'll have to navigate whilst they try to avoid, delay, dispute at every turn. And with used cars you really are in a grey area of the law.

I've always preferred the less hassle route of private where poss.
Use your research & insight to work out if it's a good one, get a decent saving but accept that from the moment you drive off you're running the gauntlet and it's all on you.

[LuS1fer]

OverSteery said:

The false sense of security regarding warranties I agree with, but is missing the point.

Buying from a dealer, the buyer has considerable protection IN LAW, unlike a private purchase.

Agreed and remember that private sellers have no overheads like rents or leases on property, interest on stocking loans, heating, staff wages, pre-sale preparation, the expectation of a new MOT etc

My pet gripe with dealers is when they always stick new ditchfinders on, when a car need tyres.

[Tommaso]

To all who replied: WOW! This community is really helpful! Thank you to all who replied!

You are all way more helpful and forthcoming than on Land Rover UK Forums, where I was asked by one member what I offered in exchange for the advice, and another suggested that I should google the information.

So, to recap,
1. In theory I have protection, but in practice I do not.
2. The market does not reflect tangible benefits, but perceived ones.
3. Many buyers need financing.

I am very interested in @OverSteery comments

OverSteery said:

The false sense of security regarding warranties I agree with, but is missing the point. Buying from a dealer, the buyer has considerable protection IN LAW, unlike a private purchase.

@OverSteery: exactly what is protected by the law, is there only a general reference to being "fit for use", or is the law more specific?

Because, if the protection is only that the motorcar should be "fit for use", then this does not protect me from false claims of a car with no faults, since advisories would not qualify as making the car unfit for use and, therefore, would not stand the test of a court.

If the law only protects against "unfit for use", then a third party warranty may be more beneficial as it would engage *any* failure, not only MOT failures. In this case, rather than paying for a dealer premium price, I might as well pay for a third party warranty - can these be added onto an automobile acquired from a private individual?

The purpose of my thread is also to establish if I need a RAC pre-purchase inspection, also when buying from a dealer, or not. I will always have an RAC pre-purchase inspection, if buying in a private sale.

Edited by Tommaso on Tuesday 23 January 11:42

[Scrump]

Tommaso said:

The purpose of my thread is to establish if I need a RAC pre-purchase inspection, also when buying from a dealer, or not. I will always have an RAC pre-purchase inspection, if buying in a private sale.

Edited by Tommaso on Tuesday 23 January 11:37

My personal view is that there is a big difference in protection between a main dealer and a small backstreet dealer.
Buying from a main dealer I would not necessarily have an RAC inspection, but buying from a small local dealer then I would be a lot more wary around the purchase.

[LuS1fer]

The difficulty with lower end traders is that the pre-sale inspection is only part of the story as most will fix any issues when they sell the car.

For example, I put a deposit on a car where the clutch had gone and he did that and put an MOT on the car. However, I wasn't happy with the noise the diff or rear brakes were making and got an immediate refund of the deposit.

The MOT history is useful as you can see what needed doing and you can see what's wrong with the car the second the MOT is passed. That said, some MOTs can still be dodgy.

[Tommaso]

Scrump said:

My personal view is that there is a big difference in protection between a main dealer and a small backstreet dealer.
Buying from a main dealer I would not necessarily have an RAC inspection, but buying from a small local dealer then I would be a lot more wary around the purchase.

Interesting point, but is it not more likely that a main dealer would NOT obtain an independent RAC inspection and, rather, have it inspected by their own garage?

LuS1fer said:

The difficulty with lower end traders is that the pre-sale inspection is only part of the story as most will fix any issues when they sell the car.

Yes, I am privy to evidence of this with more than a couple of friends!

LuS1fer said:

The MOT history is useful as you can see what needed doing and you can see what's wrong with the car the second the MOT is passed. That said, some MOTs can still be dodgy.

Yes, this is also very useful advice, thank you.

Edited by Tommaso on Tuesday 23 January 11:49

[turbobloke]

Scrump said:

Tommaso said:

The purpose of my thread is to establish if I need a RAC pre-purchase inspection, also when buying from a dealer, or not. I will always have an RAC pre-purchase inspection, if buying in a private sale.

Edited by Tommaso on Tuesday 23 January 11:37

My personal view is that there is a big difference in protection between a main dealer and a small backstreet dealer.
Buying from a main dealer I would not necessarily have an RAC inspection, but buying from a small local dealer then I would be a lot more wary around the purchase.

Likewise. When buying a Continental GT from a trader (not exactly small or backstreet but local yes) advertised with no apparent faults, I asked/insisted that a full pre-purchase inspection report was obtained from the nearest Bentley main dealer, not RAC, so that if the report was reasonable and I bought the car then there'd be no additional cost to me for the report, if I didn't buy it then I'd pay for the inspection. There were several faults, but as the car was nevertheless better than others I'd looked at, I bought it for an agreed discount against the sticker price and paid nothing for the report. Then came the bills for fixing it, but I'm still happy with the purchase as I knew exactly what needed doing and how much it would cost. That may well not have worked with a private seller i,e, bought as-seen with no warranty given or implied. I don't particularly like any dealer warranties...when told it's worth X and I say OK no warranty but take X off the price, the answer is No. What a surprise.

[Tommaso]

turbobloke said:

I asked/insisted that a full pre-purchase inspection report was obtained from the nearest Bentley main dealer, not RAC, so that if the report was reasonable and I bought the car then there'd be no additional cost to me for the report, if I didn't buy it then I'd pay for the inspection.

I like this system! Thank you! I will keep it in mind and use it!

But why not RAC? Why prefer Marque main dealer?

PS: Are you also an RREC member? I really enjoy the club, and participate frequently. Mine are from 1960s to 1980s. Feb 4th I'll be at The Hunt House and then at the SHRF.