Type R FN2 vs Fiesta ST vs 208 GTI BPS - help me decide!
Discussion
Hi all,
Allow me to tell a little (long?) story. In March of this year I found myself getting VERY bored of my great but dull 2018 Skoda Fabia, so started to look for more enjoyable alternatives. I've been a petrolhead all my life, but for some reason never really considered owning fun cars myself until this year. In searching for something fun I ended up buying an MX5 NC in April as a weekend car, rather than trading in the Fabia.
Great plan at first, because I adore my MX5 and had a brilliant time during the summer with it. BUT, winter cometh and I'm back to the Fabia and now hating it more than ever. So - I sold it last week (sadly for me, Fabias are major victims of the used car price crash atm... whoops).
I'm therefore now on the lookout for a new ride that can tick a few key boxes:
- Be super fun to drive, because that's what kicked off this whole mess
- 4-5 seats and reasonably practical as it will be my daily alongside the MX5
- Sensible MPG (35+) as my 3-4 day per week commute is a 90 mile round trip
- Reasonable insurance bracket; for reference I was paying about £450 for the Fabia, a 208 GTI would be about £700, this is fine
- After selling my Fabia I'm working with a budget of maximum £10k, but would like to spend less for the right car
Given all of this, I've currently boiled down my options to three:
- Honda Civic Type R FN2
- Ford Fiesta ST, MK7
- Peugeot 208 GTI By Peugeot Sport (or 30th ed.)
I'll post in the comments my perceived ups and downs for each one, but obviously the reason I'm posting here is that I'm very keen to not only get opinions on these options against one another, but also your suggestions for alternatives! I do feel like I've read every list and comparison article out there, but it's nice to hear from you all directly. Safe to say I'd love to hear some unusual options.
Given this, here are a few preference quirks:
- The most problematic one: I really don't like leather seats, cloth or alcantara all the way. Hoping maybe there's a car that can change my view on this!?
- As you can probably tell, I'm a fan of hot hatches rather than big luxury saloons. 'Chuckability' and 'nippy-ness' are key words, haha. I'm relatively open minded though.
- I expect to be keeping this car for around 2-3 years (before getting an i20 N or GR Yaris), but will likely do a good 30-40k miles in that time
- Given the requirements, I don't want it to be too old. The FN2 is very much the limit.
- I'm a sucker for A+ induction noise...
- I'm also a sucker for something a bit... different
Right. Let me hear your thoughts!
Allow me to tell a little (long?) story. In March of this year I found myself getting VERY bored of my great but dull 2018 Skoda Fabia, so started to look for more enjoyable alternatives. I've been a petrolhead all my life, but for some reason never really considered owning fun cars myself until this year. In searching for something fun I ended up buying an MX5 NC in April as a weekend car, rather than trading in the Fabia.
Great plan at first, because I adore my MX5 and had a brilliant time during the summer with it. BUT, winter cometh and I'm back to the Fabia and now hating it more than ever. So - I sold it last week (sadly for me, Fabias are major victims of the used car price crash atm... whoops).
I'm therefore now on the lookout for a new ride that can tick a few key boxes:
- Be super fun to drive, because that's what kicked off this whole mess
- 4-5 seats and reasonably practical as it will be my daily alongside the MX5
- Sensible MPG (35+) as my 3-4 day per week commute is a 90 mile round trip
- Reasonable insurance bracket; for reference I was paying about £450 for the Fabia, a 208 GTI would be about £700, this is fine
- After selling my Fabia I'm working with a budget of maximum £10k, but would like to spend less for the right car
Given all of this, I've currently boiled down my options to three:
- Honda Civic Type R FN2
- Ford Fiesta ST, MK7
- Peugeot 208 GTI By Peugeot Sport (or 30th ed.)
I'll post in the comments my perceived ups and downs for each one, but obviously the reason I'm posting here is that I'm very keen to not only get opinions on these options against one another, but also your suggestions for alternatives! I do feel like I've read every list and comparison article out there, but it's nice to hear from you all directly. Safe to say I'd love to hear some unusual options.
Given this, here are a few preference quirks:
- The most problematic one: I really don't like leather seats, cloth or alcantara all the way. Hoping maybe there's a car that can change my view on this!?
- As you can probably tell, I'm a fan of hot hatches rather than big luxury saloons. 'Chuckability' and 'nippy-ness' are key words, haha. I'm relatively open minded though.
- I expect to be keeping this car for around 2-3 years (before getting an i20 N or GR Yaris), but will likely do a good 30-40k miles in that time
- Given the requirements, I don't want it to be too old. The FN2 is very much the limit.
- I'm a sucker for A+ induction noise...
- I'm also a sucker for something a bit... different
Right. Let me hear your thoughts!
Figured my post was already HUGE. So adding my ups and downs for each car here.
Honda Civic Type R FN2:
Pros:
Fun car to drive on all roads, super sharp steering
Engine sounds amazing and is super fun to use
But also can be tame and practical when not revving hard
Interior is very nice inc. seats and space-age dashboard etc
Gear change is fun and slick
Very practical as quite big, lots of rear room and big boot space
Honda, so reliability should be decent so long as service history is good, replacements are cheap-ish
Looks good, although not super special
Insurance is in-line with Peugeot at ~£700 p/y
Enthusiast’s car
Cons:
MPG is quite low at ~35 for a combined trip, likely about £90 more p/m
Yearly car tax is quite high at £395
Suspension is known for being very firm, although I hadn’t noticed big issues during test drives. Maybe I need to test this more.
All cars are fairly old, so high mileage and suffering from wear and tear despite Honda, risk of repairs higher due to this
High seating position is a bit odd to get used to
No proper infotainment, unless aftermarket
Peugeot 208 GTI By Peugeot Sport:
Pros:
Small, light and nippy hot hatch, drives how I like to drive
Exhaust sound on start-up is nice
Interior is good (although not as good as the Civic), in particular the seats
Modern infotainment on most models
MPG is very good at ~50, similar to Fabia
Cheap annual tax at £150
Insurance is good at ~£650 p/y
Looks excellent, especially in white, red or matte silver (even the weird one)
Relatively new car, so would hopefully be lacking big issues, or significant wear and tear
Cons:
Peugeot 208 so base reliability is known to be pretty poor. There is some debate about this, but at a base level it’s likely to be the least reliable of all three, despite age
More expensive on average than the Honda
Gear changes aren’t anything special
Turbo lag is quite significant, which feels a bit off. Maybe ok?
Engine and exhaust sound ok, but nothing too exciting
Pretty small, not ideal for 4 seater long journeys
Not much of a wow-factor
Ford Fiesta ST, Mk7:
Pros:
Supposed to be one of the best cars to drive, although I need to test
Engine noise is excellent
Ford, so parts etc. are easy to get
Possibility for Mountune upgrades, so more fun over time
Fairly modern car with reasonable reliability record
MPG is good at ~45, a little less than Peugeot
Good annual tax at £180
Seats are super comfy
Medium practicality
Looks pretty good, although not great, similar to Honda
Cons:
Interior looks pretty bad, no infotainment despite age
Doesn’t feel very special as super popular and associated with boy racers
Has a history of being stolen in ST-3 guise, due to keyless start
Insurance is more expensive than the others at ~£900, due to the above
Can suffer from maintenance issues
Higher price than Honda, similar to Peugeot
Honda Civic Type R FN2:
Pros:
Fun car to drive on all roads, super sharp steering
Engine sounds amazing and is super fun to use
But also can be tame and practical when not revving hard
Interior is very nice inc. seats and space-age dashboard etc
Gear change is fun and slick
Very practical as quite big, lots of rear room and big boot space
Honda, so reliability should be decent so long as service history is good, replacements are cheap-ish
Looks good, although not super special
Insurance is in-line with Peugeot at ~£700 p/y
Enthusiast’s car
Cons:
MPG is quite low at ~35 for a combined trip, likely about £90 more p/m
Yearly car tax is quite high at £395
Suspension is known for being very firm, although I hadn’t noticed big issues during test drives. Maybe I need to test this more.
All cars are fairly old, so high mileage and suffering from wear and tear despite Honda, risk of repairs higher due to this
High seating position is a bit odd to get used to
No proper infotainment, unless aftermarket
Peugeot 208 GTI By Peugeot Sport:
Pros:
Small, light and nippy hot hatch, drives how I like to drive
Exhaust sound on start-up is nice
Interior is good (although not as good as the Civic), in particular the seats
Modern infotainment on most models
MPG is very good at ~50, similar to Fabia
Cheap annual tax at £150
Insurance is good at ~£650 p/y
Looks excellent, especially in white, red or matte silver (even the weird one)
Relatively new car, so would hopefully be lacking big issues, or significant wear and tear
Cons:
Peugeot 208 so base reliability is known to be pretty poor. There is some debate about this, but at a base level it’s likely to be the least reliable of all three, despite age
More expensive on average than the Honda
Gear changes aren’t anything special
Turbo lag is quite significant, which feels a bit off. Maybe ok?
Engine and exhaust sound ok, but nothing too exciting
Pretty small, not ideal for 4 seater long journeys
Not much of a wow-factor
Ford Fiesta ST, Mk7:
Pros:
Supposed to be one of the best cars to drive, although I need to test
Engine noise is excellent
Ford, so parts etc. are easy to get
Possibility for Mountune upgrades, so more fun over time
Fairly modern car with reasonable reliability record
MPG is good at ~45, a little less than Peugeot
Good annual tax at £180
Seats are super comfy
Medium practicality
Looks pretty good, although not great, similar to Honda
Cons:
Interior looks pretty bad, no infotainment despite age
Doesn’t feel very special as super popular and associated with boy racers
Has a history of being stolen in ST-3 guise, due to keyless start
Insurance is more expensive than the others at ~£900, due to the above
Can suffer from maintenance issues
Higher price than Honda, similar to Peugeot
Two of those are on my potential list for an upgrade next year, but not the Civic, I consider that the previous generation really to the others, I'm looking for 10 years old max.
I'm opting towards the 208 at the moment, seem to come in a little cheaper, and are a bit more rare on the roads. I also really like the interior having sat in (and had a go in) early 208/308 GTi's... in fact I always liked my 206 GTi interior I had back in the days!
The Fiesta does have a hug tuning potential/following though, if that's your thing.
I am also considering:
Abarth 500 (maybe a little small)
Megane Renaultsport (meant to be great handling, had a few Clio Renaultsports which whilst not the fastest, were a lot of fun)
MINI Cooper S (I used to have an R53 and loved that)
Scirocco GT (maybe a little old)
Corsa VXR Nurburgring (image doesn't bother me, has some tasty bits!)
I'm opting towards the 208 at the moment, seem to come in a little cheaper, and are a bit more rare on the roads. I also really like the interior having sat in (and had a go in) early 208/308 GTi's... in fact I always liked my 206 GTi interior I had back in the days!
The Fiesta does have a hug tuning potential/following though, if that's your thing.
I am also considering:
Abarth 500 (maybe a little small)
Megane Renaultsport (meant to be great handling, had a few Clio Renaultsports which whilst not the fastest, were a lot of fun)
MINI Cooper S (I used to have an R53 and loved that)
Scirocco GT (maybe a little old)
Corsa VXR Nurburgring (image doesn't bother me, has some tasty bits!)
The 208 GTI PS would be my pick from your list but for 10k I'd be taking a serious look at the GTC VXR as it's pretty much only bested by the Megane RS Cup model or Cup Chassis fitted but they only come with leather:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311093...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312024...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312134...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311093...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312024...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312134...
I wouldn't bother with the Type R. At normal speeds it's quite mundane; mind you this all changes the moment you hit the VTEC (yo!) but unfortunately these moments are few and far between in the age of clogged roads and average speed cameras.
The Fiesta ST gets my vote out of those 3.
What about the Alfa Romeo Giulietta or a Mk5 Golf GTi?
The Fiesta ST gets my vote out of those 3.
What about the Alfa Romeo Giulietta or a Mk5 Golf GTi?
ZX10R NIN said:
The 208 GTI PS would be my pick from your list but for 10k I'd be taking a serious look at the GTC VXR as it's pretty much only bested by the Megane RS Cup model or Cup Chassis fitted but they only come with leather:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311093...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312024...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312134...
Not sure I could own that 3rd one in the list with the FGM reg https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311093...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312024...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312134...
I bought the Fiesta and it is brilliant. Not sure what maintenance issues you've heard about but mine is on 81k miles and hasn't missed a beat. I think you only tend to get problems if you modify them for stupid power.
I used to have a 1.8 Civic which I did plan to change for a type r. The type r drove well but I had trouble finding one that hadn't been abused. Ultimately I do prefer the turbo power delivery as you can make use of it more of the time.
208 by PS have always looked good. Before buying the Fiesta I tried a 208 Gti prestige but found it a bit soft. I imagine the PS version would sort that and they do look good value. Quite rare too.
The only other car I had on my list was the F56 Cooper s but I never got around to driving one.
I used to have a 1.8 Civic which I did plan to change for a type r. The type r drove well but I had trouble finding one that hadn't been abused. Ultimately I do prefer the turbo power delivery as you can make use of it more of the time.
208 by PS have always looked good. Before buying the Fiesta I tried a 208 Gti prestige but found it a bit soft. I imagine the PS version would sort that and they do look good value. Quite rare too.
The only other car I had on my list was the F56 Cooper s but I never got around to driving one.
lord trumpton said:
ZX10R NIN said:
The 208 GTI PS would be my pick from your list but for 10k I'd be taking a serious look at the GTC VXR as it's pretty much only bested by the Megane RS Cup model or Cup Chassis fitted but they only come with leather:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311093...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312024...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312134...
Not sure I could own that 3rd one in the list with the FGM reg https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311093...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312024...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312134...
Frimley111R said:
Which Megane?
Why there was one featured on here just recently, right at the bottom 
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-six-of-the-bes...
CrippsCorner said:
Frimley111R said:
Which Megane?
Why there was one featured on here just recently, right at the bottom https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-six-of-the-bes...
I have quite a lot of experience of both cars. I’ve owned 2x 208 GTIs and a Fiesta Zetec S, I’ve also probably done 1500miles in the ST. I’ve been a passenger in the Civic but haven’t drove it so will leave it blank unless generally.
Peugeot 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport
- My opinion the best hot hatch of this size on the market
- Feels noticeably lighter than rivals
- Is quicker than the ST and the Civic
- Better engine with more power and torque, better rev range and better mpg
- Nice place to be the Peugeot Sport seats are smashing!
- It’s more focussed straight out the box than the ST or Civic
- I’ve had 2 (Prestige models) and they have been really reliable (in this time I’ve know 2x STs to go boom)
- Sounds better stock and engine pulls strong while returning 35+mpg. Higher like for like than the ST by 2-3mpg.
- Steering isn’t to everyone taste, lighter than I’d like, personally prefer the ST steering
- Interior easily the nicer
- Will definitely carry 4 full grow adult men and a wheelchair in the boot. - Bigger inside and more useable boot than the Fiesta.
- My sister hated my brother in laws ST as it was too stiff but loved the 208GTI as better damped.
- Doesn’t attract a certain crowd
- Big difference is you look over the top of the steering wheel at the dials rather than through it. It’s genius but some people just don’t like it.
Fiesta ST
- Easiest to drive and most fun.
- Confidence inspiring car and the traction control is great as allows the car to move about at the rear way more than the rivals.
- Steering and gear change are better than the Peugeot
- I’ve no problems at all in the Recaro but loads do on long journeys. They are heated while the Peugeots aren’t open the PS.
- Easier to upgrade and tune (though there is a mental green 208GTI on YouTube so is possible)
- Heated windscreen
- Need to go the ST3 to get creature comforts
- I find it more naughty than the Peugeot 208GTI if I’m honest but harder to live with
- Across the board objectively the Peugeot is better however if you drive it the Fiesta ST just works really well
Both are 10/10 cars and can’t go wrong!
As a note the Peugeot 208 GTI 30th edition is the same car as the Peugeot 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport.
If doing track days or like a more serious cars I’d go the 208GTI. Pure fun I’d go the ST. However difference is small and both can do either.
Peugeot 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport
- My opinion the best hot hatch of this size on the market
- Feels noticeably lighter than rivals
- Is quicker than the ST and the Civic
- Better engine with more power and torque, better rev range and better mpg
- Nice place to be the Peugeot Sport seats are smashing!
- It’s more focussed straight out the box than the ST or Civic
- I’ve had 2 (Prestige models) and they have been really reliable (in this time I’ve know 2x STs to go boom)
- Sounds better stock and engine pulls strong while returning 35+mpg. Higher like for like than the ST by 2-3mpg.
- Steering isn’t to everyone taste, lighter than I’d like, personally prefer the ST steering
- Interior easily the nicer
- Will definitely carry 4 full grow adult men and a wheelchair in the boot. - Bigger inside and more useable boot than the Fiesta.
- My sister hated my brother in laws ST as it was too stiff but loved the 208GTI as better damped.
- Doesn’t attract a certain crowd
- Big difference is you look over the top of the steering wheel at the dials rather than through it. It’s genius but some people just don’t like it.
Fiesta ST
- Easiest to drive and most fun.
- Confidence inspiring car and the traction control is great as allows the car to move about at the rear way more than the rivals.
- Steering and gear change are better than the Peugeot
- I’ve no problems at all in the Recaro but loads do on long journeys. They are heated while the Peugeots aren’t open the PS.
- Easier to upgrade and tune (though there is a mental green 208GTI on YouTube so is possible)
- Heated windscreen
- Need to go the ST3 to get creature comforts
- I find it more naughty than the Peugeot 208GTI if I’m honest but harder to live with
- Across the board objectively the Peugeot is better however if you drive it the Fiesta ST just works really well
Both are 10/10 cars and can’t go wrong!
As a note the Peugeot 208 GTI 30th edition is the same car as the Peugeot 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport.
If doing track days or like a more serious cars I’d go the 208GTI. Pure fun I’d go the ST. However difference is small and both can do either.
- this is rapid typing with no proof reading between meetings apologies*
Edited by CG2020UK on Thursday 14th December 12:49
There's also the 308 bps which isn't much more expensive than the 208 and only slightly heavier. The 19s put me off the 308 and I hate the matte colours the 208 came in.
Every time I see a GTC or any type on the road I'm reminded of the car buying forum on ph. They do look great though and am a sucker for Arden blue.
Every time I see a GTC or any type on the road I'm reminded of the car buying forum on ph. They do look great though and am a sucker for Arden blue.
The 308 is actually a really good shout, I hadn't realised what great value they look. I know IP said £10k budget but this could be worth stretching for..
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023112743...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023112743...
I feel having owned an FN2, i ought to speak up on its behalf. I owned a 2010 Type R GT in Milano Red. Simply put, I drove it as a daily, covering about 50k miles in two years and every time I sat in it, I was furious with myself for not getting one sooner. The car is fantastic. The practicality is off the scale, they're like a miniature panel van with the rear seats folded, and all seats are roomy enough for a full sized adult. The racy front seats are gripping but comfortable. The engine is borderline indestructible (servicing dependant) and its not hard to maintain them cheaply, even via the main dealer network (menu pricing means no unexpected bills).
The Vtec is infectious, the handling is razor sharp. Hands down one of the best cars I've ever owned.
The Vtec is infectious, the handling is razor sharp. Hands down one of the best cars I've ever owned.
I have got a 2015 Fiesta ST, I have done almost 120k in it and its never missed a beat.
Other than routine oil and filter changes plus brake disks and pads only things that have had to be replaced are the rear suspension bushed at about 110K and a throttle body controller at about 50k, neither repair was expensive.
They are really good in terms of MPG, in the summer if you try really hard 52mpg is achievable and 40mpg is a doddle all year round. If you are wringing its neck you will still struggle to get it below mid 20s.
really fun car to drive and very easy and approachable too.
Other than routine oil and filter changes plus brake disks and pads only things that have had to be replaced are the rear suspension bushed at about 110K and a throttle body controller at about 50k, neither repair was expensive.
They are really good in terms of MPG, in the summer if you try really hard 52mpg is achievable and 40mpg is a doddle all year round. If you are wringing its neck you will still struggle to get it below mid 20s.
really fun car to drive and very easy and approachable too.
Have owned my FN2 for 9 years so thought I should mention some not so obvious downsides or 'quirks' with these.
Most obvious one will be the fact everything is a generation behind the other 2 cars, you get cruise control, air con, electric mirrors and electric windows.
The engine and gearbox are rather grumpy when cold and rather notchy and not that pleasant to drive. Once warm the engine is nice and smooth, and the gearbox is effortless and so precise.
You have to know the car to drive with all its power. It only feels like 150bhp until about 5000rpm, then there is a noticeable increase until it peak power at 7500rpm. 45-50mph overtake can catch people out, in the other 2 cars 3rd gear would be fine but in the FN2 an initial drop into 2nd is generally ideal unless you have plenty of room.
Parts are generally more expensive than European cars, with some being dramatically more expensive. Also there are only a few Honda specialists in the country so make sure you find a decent garage who can reliably source parts for you.
Most obvious one will be the fact everything is a generation behind the other 2 cars, you get cruise control, air con, electric mirrors and electric windows.
The engine and gearbox are rather grumpy when cold and rather notchy and not that pleasant to drive. Once warm the engine is nice and smooth, and the gearbox is effortless and so precise.
You have to know the car to drive with all its power. It only feels like 150bhp until about 5000rpm, then there is a noticeable increase until it peak power at 7500rpm. 45-50mph overtake can catch people out, in the other 2 cars 3rd gear would be fine but in the FN2 an initial drop into 2nd is generally ideal unless you have plenty of room.
Parts are generally more expensive than European cars, with some being dramatically more expensive. Also there are only a few Honda specialists in the country so make sure you find a decent garage who can reliably source parts for you.
ChrisH72 said:
The 308 is actually a really good shout, I hadn't realised what great value they look. I know IP said £10k budget but this could be worth stretching for..
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023112743...
Isn't there some issue with them having really pricey front brakes?http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023112743...
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