Looking for a large body AWD all-rounder
Discussion
Looking for a large body AWD all-rounder in mainland Europe. Budget is up to 12K euros. Most important factors - reliability, some off-road capability would be preferable. One of my last cars was a BMW X5 E70 4.8L V8. Less than a month of buying the car it was diagnosed with head gasket failure. Bought the car for 10K, was quoted 12K for engine replacement. Needless to say I lost the appetite for a 5 figure repair bill risk since then.
My primary candidate right now is Toyota Land Cruiser Prado 120. It doesn't exactly tick all the checkboxes, but it does most. It's supposed to be as reliable as they get apparently. Most of the available options are diesels, petrols are very hard to come by. There's a small chance diesel engine pistons may develop cracks, so I guess even the legendary Land Cruiser isn't perfect.
Any other viable alternatives? I was also looking at Land Rover Discovery and Jeep Grand Cherokee, but if owner feedback is to be believed, these two spend more time being repaired than on the road. It's a shame, good looking cars otherwise. I had a 2nd gen Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 petrol many years ago and it was rock solid, but apparently newer models are not so much any more.
My primary candidate right now is Toyota Land Cruiser Prado 120. It doesn't exactly tick all the checkboxes, but it does most. It's supposed to be as reliable as they get apparently. Most of the available options are diesels, petrols are very hard to come by. There's a small chance diesel engine pistons may develop cracks, so I guess even the legendary Land Cruiser isn't perfect.
Any other viable alternatives? I was also looking at Land Rover Discovery and Jeep Grand Cherokee, but if owner feedback is to be believed, these two spend more time being repaired than on the road. It's a shame, good looking cars otherwise. I had a 2nd gen Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 petrol many years ago and it was rock solid, but apparently newer models are not so much any more.
The petrol V8 Discovery 3 is the pick of the bunch from a Land Rover perspective.
At 20yo you'll be dealing with common problems like air suspension refurbishment, alternators dying, and myriad small but nonterminal issues. But I'd say that's likely true of any large, complicated, older car.
In return you get 22mpg on a motorway run (400+ to a tank), the ability to seat 7 adults without two of them being amputees, a flat load space longer than most pickups, Euro 4 emissions, almost unmatched off-road ability, and an absolutely sumptuous ride.
The diesel cars suffer with a number of 'fail to proceed' type issues that can get expensive quickly, but on the whole the petrol D3 (while not cheap in itself to run) is mostly going to be 'wear and tear' stuff that needs fixing. If you wanted some insight into likely costs, I have a thread running here where I've detailed my spend over the past 18 months.
I've no idea what LHD production numbers or pricing are like (outside of North America), but E12k would get you a great RHD car.
At 20yo you'll be dealing with common problems like air suspension refurbishment, alternators dying, and myriad small but nonterminal issues. But I'd say that's likely true of any large, complicated, older car.
In return you get 22mpg on a motorway run (400+ to a tank), the ability to seat 7 adults without two of them being amputees, a flat load space longer than most pickups, Euro 4 emissions, almost unmatched off-road ability, and an absolutely sumptuous ride.
The diesel cars suffer with a number of 'fail to proceed' type issues that can get expensive quickly, but on the whole the petrol D3 (while not cheap in itself to run) is mostly going to be 'wear and tear' stuff that needs fixing. If you wanted some insight into likely costs, I have a thread running here where I've detailed my spend over the past 18 months.
I've no idea what LHD production numbers or pricing are like (outside of North America), but E12k would get you a great RHD car.
Edited by C70R on Thursday 23 November 07:36
This one has been for sale for ages and keeps dropping the price. I was vaguely tempted…
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325868063902?mkcid=16&a...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325868063902?mkcid=16&a...
Lefty said:
This one has been for sale for ages and keeps dropping the price. I was vaguely tempted…
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325868063902?mkcid=16&a...
If there was any way to verify the mileage and history on this import, I'd pay £12k for it in a heartbeat. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295958695990https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325868063902?mkcid=16&a...
We've had a Merc ML350D for the last 6 years and it's been great.
Only issues we've had have been an oil leak (a known fault at 80k) and a couple of broken springs.
Everything else has been wear and tear (tyres and brakes).
You can pick a decent low-ish mileage one up for 10k.
Only issue is the tax is a bit steep, and as long as you don't need to go in ULEZ they're a great car.
Done about 70,000 miles in ours.
Only issues we've had have been an oil leak (a known fault at 80k) and a couple of broken springs.
Everything else has been wear and tear (tyres and brakes).
You can pick a decent low-ish mileage one up for 10k.
Only issue is the tax is a bit steep, and as long as you don't need to go in ULEZ they're a great car.
Done about 70,000 miles in ours.
C70R said:
The petrol V8 Discovery 3 is the pick of the bunch from a Land Rover perspective.
At 20yo you'll be dealing with common problems like air suspension refurbishment, alternators dying, and myriad small but nonterminal issues. But I'd say that's likely true of any large, complicated, older car.
In return you get 22mpg on a motorway run (400+ to a tank), the ability to seat 7 adults without two of them being amputees, a flat load space longer than most pickups, Euro 4 emissions, almost unmatched off-road ability, and an absolutely sumptuous ride.
The diesel cars suffer with a number of 'fail to proceed' type issues that can get expensive quickly, but on the whole the petrol D3 (while not cheap in itself to run) is mostly going to be 'wear and tear' stuff that needs fixing. If you wanted some insight into likely costs, I have a thread running here where I've detailed my spend over the past 18 months.
I've no idea what LHD production numbers or pricing are like (outside of North America), but E12k would get you a great RHD car.
Thanks. I was looking at this one. Problem is, it's very rare in my region. I literally could only find one LR3 V8 petrol option in the ads, shipped in from the USA with 300K km (186K miles) on the clock. I've looked on mobile.de, even checked autotrader.co.uk and found 0 options, which just tells me this particular model was not available for Europe market. There's a ton of diesels out there of course.At 20yo you'll be dealing with common problems like air suspension refurbishment, alternators dying, and myriad small but nonterminal issues. But I'd say that's likely true of any large, complicated, older car.
In return you get 22mpg on a motorway run (400+ to a tank), the ability to seat 7 adults without two of them being amputees, a flat load space longer than most pickups, Euro 4 emissions, almost unmatched off-road ability, and an absolutely sumptuous ride.
The diesel cars suffer with a number of 'fail to proceed' type issues that can get expensive quickly, but on the whole the petrol D3 (while not cheap in itself to run) is mostly going to be 'wear and tear' stuff that needs fixing. If you wanted some insight into likely costs, I have a thread running here where I've detailed my spend over the past 18 months.
I've no idea what LHD production numbers or pricing are like (outside of North America), but E12k would get you a great RHD car.
Edited by C70R on Thursday 23 November 07:36
aland75 said:
XC90 V8 :P
I've had mine 2 years, it's been great. Much more entertaining than the diesel version it replaced.
I was just thinking to myself that the ugliest SUV ever is Lexus RX and second ugliest Volvo XC90 - it literally looks like an oversized VW Passat, not an SUV I've had mine 2 years, it's been great. Much more entertaining than the diesel version it replaced.
But I suppose what these two lack in looks they may deliver in reliability.Terzo123 said:
I had an old WK Jeep Grand Cherokee, and never had any major issues. I'm not aware of the WKII being much trouble.
I always thought of them as being great value compared to European equivalents, as in you get newer and lower mileage examples for a similar price to X5's, ML's etc
Agreed, they are really robust. I looked at the 5.7 when I was buying the Disco, and was put off by the cheapness inside (the seats could be out of a Prius) and the fact that it's actually not very big.I always thought of them as being great value compared to European equivalents, as in you get newer and lower mileage examples for a similar price to X5's, ML's etc
I found a couple of Land Cruiser 100 series options. A bit out of my budget, but these things look like absolute tanks. Packing 4.2L diesel engine, which is supposedly one of the best diesel engines ever made and apparently there are some crazy dudes out there who are squeezing like 500 KW (150 KW factory standard) out of these engines and drag racing against Porshes with them or some insane ѕhit like that. Center diff lock, rear diff lock, adjustable height suspension... I will be seriously depressed if I don't get my hands on one of these.
But anyway, the search continues.
But anyway, the search continues.
They are awesome things but don’t fall in the trap of thinking they don’t need maintenance like some people do. Yes they’re very strong but they’re old vehicles now, parts are expensive and you can’t assume they won’t need money spent.
Never owned one but driven a few and love em.
They are feckin expensive though, safe place for your money probably.
Never owned one but driven a few and love em.
They are feckin expensive though, safe place for your money probably.
Not sure an elderly Discovery 3 or XC90 are particularly in tune with the OP's reliability brief but who am I to argue.
Land Cruiser's are excellent and are genuinely bulletproof if maintained but do have incredibly strong residuals so your money doesn't tend to go very far. Even a 20 year old Land Cruiser is still 20 years old and they tend to be worked much harder than the average SUV.
Lexus RX might even be more reliable than a Land Cruiser if obviously not as heavy duty for extreme use cases and you can get a lot more for your money. Cherished cars with full Lexus history are also easier to find than most of the alternatives given the typical owner profile. The 450h will also leave a V8 D3 for dust while using half the fuel. Not great for towing though if that's part of the plan.
Land Cruiser's are excellent and are genuinely bulletproof if maintained but do have incredibly strong residuals so your money doesn't tend to go very far. Even a 20 year old Land Cruiser is still 20 years old and they tend to be worked much harder than the average SUV.
Lexus RX might even be more reliable than a Land Cruiser if obviously not as heavy duty for extreme use cases and you can get a lot more for your money. Cherished cars with full Lexus history are also easier to find than most of the alternatives given the typical owner profile. The 450h will also leave a V8 D3 for dust while using half the fuel. Not great for towing though if that's part of the plan.
Snow and Rocks said:
Not sure an elderly Discovery 3 or XC90 are particularly in tune with the OP's reliability brief but who am I to argue.
Land Cruiser's are excellent and are genuinely bulletproof if maintained but do have incredibly strong residuals so your money doesn't tend to go very far. Even a 20 year old Land Cruiser is still 20 years old and they tend to be worked much harder than the average SUV.
Lexus RX might even be more reliable than a Land Cruiser if obviously not as heavy duty for extreme use cases and you can get a lot more for your money. Cherished cars with full Lexus history are also easier to find than most of the alternatives given the typical owner profile. The 450h will also leave a V8 D3 for dust while using half the fuel. Not great for towing though if that's part of the plan.
Yeah, I've been looking at the Lexus RX series and it seems to be a bit of a hit and miss. Apparently certain years have quite a bit of issues. Of course, those years that don't are 2-3 times more expensive. So Lexus RX is a candidate for sure, but has to be carefully selected, as it's not nearly as universally praised as the Land Cruiser. It's also a lot smaller, not very offroad or tow friendly.Land Cruiser's are excellent and are genuinely bulletproof if maintained but do have incredibly strong residuals so your money doesn't tend to go very far. Even a 20 year old Land Cruiser is still 20 years old and they tend to be worked much harder than the average SUV.
Lexus RX might even be more reliable than a Land Cruiser if obviously not as heavy duty for extreme use cases and you can get a lot more for your money. Cherished cars with full Lexus history are also easier to find than most of the alternatives given the typical owner profile. The 450h will also leave a V8 D3 for dust while using half the fuel. Not great for towing though if that's part of the plan.
On the other hand Land Cruiser seems to suffer from rust. There's plenty of winter salt in mainland Europe, so that's a big concern. What if the seller applies a coat of anti corrosion to hide the existing rust and at the same time create an illusion of well maintained underbody?
So far it feels like trying to make a choice between burning to death and drowning.
Lefty said:
I think the petrol D3 is a much safer bet on reliability terms than the TD.
Still got air suspension but that’s probably the only worrisome thing.
Yeah, unfortunately there are almost no options of the V8 in continental Europe. Just to reiterate - I'm looking for a left hand drive.Still got air suspension but that’s probably the only worrisome thing.
There's a load of Discovery diesels available, but from what I've read so far those engines are a disaster. They call it the worst diesel engine ever made...
I think my most realistic choices are Toyota or Lexus. Hopefully finding something that's not been destroyed by rust.
There are a lot of Lexus RX 450h options out there. Watched a couple of videos of them unable to handle even a few inches of snow, with winter tyres no less. Those things are fake AWD, really disappointing.
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