How does a BMW 325i compare to a mid-size mildly hot hatch?
Discussion
Hi All,
I'm looking for a new daily driver and I have been looking at cars 7-10 years old mainly, like Scirocco GT, Astra 1.6T SRI, and the Focus ST. I'm not interested in all out speed (the Focus ST is overkill tbh). I tried a 208 GTi, which was fun, but a bit small and not especially comfortable for day to day commuting.
I've noticed if I look a bit older than I wanted, the odd 325i pops up in my price range. Seems like it has a reasonable turn of speed, about the right size and they are considered very well balanced, but are they fun like a hot hatch?
I'm thinking about viewing a manual 325i Touring tomorrow. The downside of a NASP 3 litre is at the petrol station compared to a more modern 2.0 or 1.6 turbo of similar power, but is it worth it?
I'm looking for a new daily driver and I have been looking at cars 7-10 years old mainly, like Scirocco GT, Astra 1.6T SRI, and the Focus ST. I'm not interested in all out speed (the Focus ST is overkill tbh). I tried a 208 GTi, which was fun, but a bit small and not especially comfortable for day to day commuting.
I've noticed if I look a bit older than I wanted, the odd 325i pops up in my price range. Seems like it has a reasonable turn of speed, about the right size and they are considered very well balanced, but are they fun like a hot hatch?
I'm thinking about viewing a manual 325i Touring tomorrow. The downside of a NASP 3 litre is at the petrol station compared to a more modern 2.0 or 1.6 turbo of similar power, but is it worth it?
I’ve had a few BMWs - all 6 pots, E21 323i, E30 325i Sport, E36 328i, E46 330i …….and for last decade or more an E46 325ti ….which is also a hatch ( at the time of launch was reviewed with contemporary hot hatches ).
I find it fun to drive - maybe a bit old for you as newest will be 18 years old ….but you can still find looked after ones if you look. I’ve driven the E90 325i with the 3-litre 215-ish engine and it’s a more sedate thing but obviously newer. I’d go for a 125i/135i for more fun but if you need the Touring space get the 330i imo
I find it fun to drive - maybe a bit old for you as newest will be 18 years old ….but you can still find looked after ones if you look. I’ve driven the E90 325i with the 3-litre 215-ish engine and it’s a more sedate thing but obviously newer. I’d go for a 125i/135i for more fun but if you need the Touring space get the 330i imo
It’s a different experience for sure. RWD will require a bit more finesse and smoothness with controls to get the best out of it, whereas FWD hot hatches are a bit more “chuckable” and forgiving.
Fwiw, I chopped in my 120d for a Mk3 Focus ST and, while the engine in the Focus was excellent, I missed the drive and balance of the BMW. I chopped it in for an M140i … best of both
My suggestion is drive both and see what you prefer.
Chris
Fwiw, I chopped in my 120d for a Mk3 Focus ST and, while the engine in the Focus was excellent, I missed the drive and balance of the BMW. I chopped it in for an M140i … best of both
My suggestion is drive both and see what you prefer.
Chris
It will drive differently for sure being RWD.
But I grew up with RWD - Rover 3500S, 2.8 Granada, MK2 Escort RS2000, Capri 2.8i, etc. - which is why I've only had BMWs since 2005!
As someone said earlier an E46 325ti really does have an element of hot hatch fun, but other 3 Series are definitely more refined so are really great on a long motorway slog.
If the 325i you have seen is a 3 litre it will have the N53 engine which can have some issues, but I believe it is only a map away from 330i power so would be no slouch after that.
My E91 325i had the N52 engine and didn't feel that quick, which is why I only had it a year before I replaced it with an E90 330i!
But most 3 Series are more about refinement than back road blasts. Maybe the best N/A BMW option might be a 130i - it is a hatch after all. Or spend a bit more for an M135i.
But I grew up with RWD - Rover 3500S, 2.8 Granada, MK2 Escort RS2000, Capri 2.8i, etc. - which is why I've only had BMWs since 2005!
As someone said earlier an E46 325ti really does have an element of hot hatch fun, but other 3 Series are definitely more refined so are really great on a long motorway slog.
If the 325i you have seen is a 3 litre it will have the N53 engine which can have some issues, but I believe it is only a map away from 330i power so would be no slouch after that.
My E91 325i had the N52 engine and didn't feel that quick, which is why I only had it a year before I replaced it with an E90 330i!
But most 3 Series are more about refinement than back road blasts. Maybe the best N/A BMW option might be a 130i - it is a hatch after all. Or spend a bit more for an M135i.
I ran an E92 325i with the 3.0 N53 engine for 3 years before changing to a Fiesta ST mk7 which I still have.
The BMW was a nice enough car and I enjoyed it. Very refined, smooth riding and the 6 pot engine sounded good at high revs. It was quick enough for me but its size and weight meant the performance was masked so it never felt as fast as it actually was. Definitely more of a motorway cruiser than a sports car. The 330i has the same engine with the same running costs but more power. I'm fairly sure there are other mechanical differences so a remap of a 325i is a waste of time, you may as well just find a 330i.
Downsides?
Well it was by far and away the most expensive car to run and maintain that I've ever had. MPG was okay and I averaged about 33mpg in mixed driving. The N53 is a fair bit more efficient than the N52 before it. However there are several very expensive common issues. Fuel injectors are seen as a maintenance item. Mine failed at 50k miles which is common. Unfortunately replacing one just put strain on the others so you need a set of 6 to do the job and that's a big 4 figure bill. Then there's the NOX sensor and HPFP. I got fed up with the bills to be honest.
The Fiesta is fantastic. Yes it's FWD but so what? It is infinitely more fun to drive if fun is what you're looking for. The ride is harder, the quality is poorer and it has fake engine noise pumped through the speakers but honestly none of that matters on a twisty road. On top of that it's been cheap as chips to run. I'm really struggling with what to replace it with and actually might not bother.
Focus ST would be somewhere between the two I'd imagine, but I've never driven one.
The BMW was a nice enough car and I enjoyed it. Very refined, smooth riding and the 6 pot engine sounded good at high revs. It was quick enough for me but its size and weight meant the performance was masked so it never felt as fast as it actually was. Definitely more of a motorway cruiser than a sports car. The 330i has the same engine with the same running costs but more power. I'm fairly sure there are other mechanical differences so a remap of a 325i is a waste of time, you may as well just find a 330i.
Downsides?
Well it was by far and away the most expensive car to run and maintain that I've ever had. MPG was okay and I averaged about 33mpg in mixed driving. The N53 is a fair bit more efficient than the N52 before it. However there are several very expensive common issues. Fuel injectors are seen as a maintenance item. Mine failed at 50k miles which is common. Unfortunately replacing one just put strain on the others so you need a set of 6 to do the job and that's a big 4 figure bill. Then there's the NOX sensor and HPFP. I got fed up with the bills to be honest.
The Fiesta is fantastic. Yes it's FWD but so what? It is infinitely more fun to drive if fun is what you're looking for. The ride is harder, the quality is poorer and it has fake engine noise pumped through the speakers but honestly none of that matters on a twisty road. On top of that it's been cheap as chips to run. I'm really struggling with what to replace it with and actually might not bother.
Focus ST would be somewhere between the two I'd imagine, but I've never driven one.
Hmm..pros and cons then. I imagine the Fiesta will be similar to the 208 GTi I drove, which was a little extreme for me. I actually really liked the 2016 Astra SRI 1.6t I drove, which seemed to be a good compromise between comfort and fun. It's a huge step up from the previous generation. I would have bought it already, but the dealer has been pissing around trying to fix a misaligned front bumper for the last 3 days.
Interesting about the remap releasing a fair bit of extra power in the 3 litre 325i. Are they basically a detuned 330i?
The one I spotted only has 90k miles, 1 owner and has 11 BMW services in the book. Might be worth seeing and remapping if it's a good one with all the stuff that usually breaks sorted out.
Interesting about the remap releasing a fair bit of extra power in the 3 litre 325i. Are they basically a detuned 330i?
The one I spotted only has 90k miles, 1 owner and has 11 BMW services in the book. Might be worth seeing and remapping if it's a good one with all the stuff that usually breaks sorted out.
I'm fairly sure you won't get 330i power with just a software remap. The 330i has a different manifold from what I recall. Tuning NA engines can get expensive with little gain.
As I said, I would avoid the N53 but it's up to you.
If I was looking at another 3.0 BMW I'd find a slightly older N52 330i instead.
Or the 130i could be a good choice.
What's your budget?
As I said, I would avoid the N53 but it's up to you.
If I was looking at another 3.0 BMW I'd find a slightly older N52 330i instead.
Or the 130i could be a good choice.
What's your budget?
AlexC1981 said:
Hi All,
I'm looking for a new daily driver and I have been looking at cars 7-10 years old mainly, like Scirocco GT, Astra 1.6T SRI, and the Focus ST. I'm not interested in all out speed (the Focus ST is overkill tbh). I tried a 208 GTi, which was fun, but a bit small and not especially comfortable for day to day commuting.
I've noticed if I look a bit older than I wanted, the odd 325i pops up in my price range. Seems like it has a reasonable turn of speed, about the right size and they are considered very well balanced, but are they fun like a hot hatch?
I'm thinking about viewing a manual 325i Touring tomorrow. The downside of a NASP 3 litre is at the petrol station compared to a more modern 2.0 or 1.6 turbo of similar power, but is it worth it?
If fun & usability are the main factors then I'd stick with what you're looking at with the Astra being the pick (it's not as sharp as the Focus but you said you don't want out & out go) but there's also one missing from your list & that's the Kia ProCeed GT:I'm looking for a new daily driver and I have been looking at cars 7-10 years old mainly, like Scirocco GT, Astra 1.6T SRI, and the Focus ST. I'm not interested in all out speed (the Focus ST is overkill tbh). I tried a 208 GTi, which was fun, but a bit small and not especially comfortable for day to day commuting.
I've noticed if I look a bit older than I wanted, the odd 325i pops up in my price range. Seems like it has a reasonable turn of speed, about the right size and they are considered very well balanced, but are they fun like a hot hatch?
I'm thinking about viewing a manual 325i Touring tomorrow. The downside of a NASP 3 litre is at the petrol station compared to a more modern 2.0 or 1.6 turbo of similar power, but is it worth it?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305277...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307129...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307280...
There's also its i30 cousin it comes with less bhp but you get a newer car:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305147...
Also rather than going for the ST why not go for the 1.6T Titanium X180 Focus, it's still a good steer with a decent amount of go:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306068...
ChrisH72 said:
I'm fairly sure you won't get 330i power with just a software remap. The 330i has a different manifold from what I recall. Tuning NA engines can get expensive with little gain.
As I said, I would avoid the N53 but it's up to you.
If I was looking at another 3.0 BMW I'd find a slightly older N52 330i instead.
Or the 130i could be a good choice.
What's your budget?
a friend has the 125i with the 3.0 N52 engine which he has had remapped and it now puts out the same 265bhp as my Z4 up from 215bhp iirc As I said, I would avoid the N53 but it's up to you.
If I was looking at another 3.0 BMW I'd find a slightly older N52 330i instead.
Or the 130i could be a good choice.
What's your budget?
i don’t know about the N53 but it’s def possible and not expensive with the N52 which is an absolute peach of an engine
my mate’s remap was done by the zed shed in the North West
Edited by Earthdweller on Saturday 29th July 08:52
Thanks to everyone who responded! After reading about the reliability problems of the N53 I decided to give it a miss. There is a long thread on PH that goes into the problems with the injectors in some detail. They are disgustingly expensive. Shame on BMW for building a problematic engine and then making the parts to repair so expensive.
Having broadened my search to include older cars, I noticed a 2010 125k miles Octavia vRS 2.0 TFSI for sale. It was way under my budget and since I hadn't found anything else, I thought it would be worth a look. Astonishingly it was excellent condition with FSH so I stuck a deposit down.
It will be the highest milage car I've driven let alone owned. The gearstick felt a bit loose in neutral, but it drove well enough. Not so many toys as I'm used to, but it should be fun, not too expensive to repair, and I won't have to worry about it as much as I would something more expensive.
Having broadened my search to include older cars, I noticed a 2010 125k miles Octavia vRS 2.0 TFSI for sale. It was way under my budget and since I hadn't found anything else, I thought it would be worth a look. Astonishingly it was excellent condition with FSH so I stuck a deposit down.
It will be the highest milage car I've driven let alone owned. The gearstick felt a bit loose in neutral, but it drove well enough. Not so many toys as I'm used to, but it should be fun, not too expensive to repair, and I won't have to worry about it as much as I would something more expensive.
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