Insurance renewal, change car?

[pb8g09]

Last August I bought a BMW M235i. I'm enjoying it, though wondering whether I'd have enjoyed it more if it were a manual...

At the time I had an M140i, Golf R, Audi S1 or Audi TT on my shortlist, as well as a place on the GR86 waiting list. I've since turned down my invite to have one of the stock replenish as it would have meant taking finance.

Fast forward 12 months, my insurance renewal is approaching and running some early quotes (got just over a month left on it), I'm seeing an increase from £1.5k to £2.2k p.a to insure - around £55 a month more really.

The spread on the car is around £4k (I paid £18k and it's now WBAC/Cazoo at £14k roughly). Whilst I don't need the money, I am about to move house and so I know it would be well received at home to downsize (£) the car and insurance. I don't think I'd realistically have the time to sell it privately without aggro for much higher especially whilst trying to sell a large number of furniture for the house move.

With the bath I'll take on the sale versus the money I'd save in insuring, is it worth moving it on and trying a new car (bit of a serial changer), or am I just overreacting and should just take the insurance increase hit? I know only can answer that, but interested to hear if anyone else is in the same scenario and what logic they're using to make their decision? - and also what car I ought to consider otherwise?

[K4sper]

i was in the same scenario when my insurance doubled and considered trading "down" from my C63 to an M40i. In the end, for the sake of 5-6k I decided not to swap something I really love for something that i was pretty lukewarm on. That's a very personal decision of course.

One thing I would say though, is that I got quite hung up on the idea that selling the C63 would crystalise the depreciation, so in your case it would make the 4k loss "real". You have to think of it in terms of that depreciation has already happened and that 4k isn't coming back (subject to crazy 2nd hand prize spikes again...)

[pb8g09]

Thanks, yeah I've been scratching my beard thinking about the depreciation true-up. I think the right answer is keep the car and suck up the increased insurance. My missus' instant reaction was "sell it and buy something cheaper", but then this is the same lady that wanted to pull her whole ISA balance because it dropped 10% in value a week after she dumped a load of money in it!

A complete p*ss take by the car insurance industry though. The argument is that courtesy car costs have increased 30% and other costs have gone up significantly - but if that was the real truth, then why can't I opt out of having a courtesy car and see a drop in the price?!

[Dingu]

pb8g09 said:

Thanks, yeah I've been scratching my beard thinking about the depreciation true-up. I think the right answer is keep the car and suck up the increased insurance. My missus' instant reaction was "sell it and buy something cheaper", but then this is the same lady that wanted to pull her whole ISA balance because it dropped 10% in value a week after she dumped a load of money in it!

A complete p*ss take by the car insurance industry though. The argument is that courtesy car costs have increased 30% and other costs have gone up significantly - but if that was the real truth, then why can't I opt out of having a courtesy car and see a drop in the price?!

Costs are up massively, it’s plain fact. It’s not all courtesy car related.

You can’t opt out because what’s the point? It’s not going to dramatically lower the price and you’ll only complain when you don’t get one.

[bencollins4]

pb8g09 said:

A complete p*ss take by the car insurance industry though. The argument is that courtesy car costs have increased 30% and other costs have gone up significantly - but if that was the real truth, then why can't I opt out of having a courtesy car and see a drop in the price?!

You’re not quite understanding things. It’s not courtesy cars, it’s the cost of credit hire when you have a non-fault claim or someone else’s if you are at fault. Cost of these have gone up as have the length of hire due to parts delays. Parts prices up, paint up, labour up, electric car ownership up, and they are bloody expensive to repair with limited specialists. Reinsurance has gone up mad amounts. There’s no piss-take, inflation has had a massive impact on insurers are they need to make a profit or cease trading.

[ChrisH72]

I'm sure you have checked price comparison sites but if not its worth doing so. Don't just accept the renewal quote.

My wife and I have been with Direct Line for years but this time both our renewal quotes had doubled. We shopped around and found the same cover elsewhere for not too much more than last year so we left.

I'm sure costs have gone up but like many other industries I do think there is profiteering on the back of the current economic situation.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

pb8g09 said:

The argument is that courtesy car costs have increased 30% and other costs have gone up significantly - but if that was the real truth, then why can't I opt out of having a courtesy car and see a drop in the price?!

How do you opt out the third party who you hit from having a courtesy car? Maybe for 3 months or more because they can't get the parts due to Brexit. I'll wait for your answer.

[ChrisH72]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

pb8g09 said:

The argument is that courtesy car costs have increased 30% and other costs have gone up significantly - but if that was the real truth, then why can't I opt out of having a courtesy car and see a drop in the price?!

How do you opt out the third party who you hit from having a courtesy car? Maybe for 3 months or more because they can't get the parts due to Brexit. I'll wait for your answer.

I imagine he means to opt out of himself having a courtesy car. The third party can get one from their own insurer. Isn't that how it works?

My in laws has some self inflicted damage to their car recently resulting in a new door. It took a month to fix so they had the courtesy car all that time.

[Greza]

My wife was driving my car and scraped against a tatty 14 plate Tesla Model S. My car had no damage at all, but the Tesla had a scuff on the bumper. On my insurance renewal the claim totalled £15K! Half of which was a new bumper and paint and the remainder was a like for like hire vehicle.
Surely, at this rate replacement parts and like for like hire will make insurance unsustainable and people won’t be able to afford premiums. Some people will be forced to give up their cars, whilst others will drive uninsured creating further problems.

[ChrisH72]

That's just silly. Smart repair could've sorted that for £100.

Someone did similar to my car recently. They didn't bother leaving any details and just drove off. I was really annoyed but honestly I can see why people do it.

[Edible Roadkill]

Greza said:

My wife was driving my car and scraped against a tatty 14 plate Tesla Model S. My car had no damage at all, but the Tesla had a scuff on the bumper. On my insurance renewal the claim totalled £15K! Half of which was a new bumper and paint and the remainder was a like for like hire vehicle.
Surely, at this rate replacement parts and like for like hire will make insurance unsustainable and people won’t be able to afford premiums. Some people will be forced to give up their cars, whilst others will drive uninsured creating further problems.

Mental, that’s a £100 smart repair fix

My insurance has shot up also, 40% on one car & 70% on the other. Been driving over 20yrs, full ncb, nothing changed on policy, good area etc. Mad thing is that the highly
Inflated renewal price is the best price I can get, comparison sites are even higher.

[pb8g09]

ChrisH72 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

pb8g09 said:

The argument is that courtesy car costs have increased 30% and other costs have gone up significantly - but if that was the real truth, then why can't I opt out of having a courtesy car and see a drop in the price?!

How do you opt out the third party who you hit from having a courtesy car? Maybe for 3 months or more because they can't get the parts due to Brexit. I'll wait for your answer.

I imagine he means to opt out of himself having a courtesy car. The third party can get one from their own insurer. Isn't that how it works?

My in laws has some self inflicted damage to their car recently resulting in a new door. It took a month to fix so they had the courtesy car all that time.

Thanks. That is what I meant.

You can choose what elements of your contents to insure on your home insurance, I would have thought you could also do the same on your car insurance.

Not sure my question required such an OTT response...

[TeaNoSugar]

ChrisH72 said:

I'm sure you have checked price comparison sites but if not its worth doing so. Don't just accept the renewal quote.

My wife and I have been with Direct Line for years but this time both our renewal quotes had doubled. We shopped around and found the same cover elsewhere for not too much more than last year so we left.

I'm sure costs have gone up but like many other industries I do think there is profiteering on the back of the current economic situation.

I’ve just gone through this today with Direct Line. No changes to anything other than me having another year of NCD (now 7 years since I had a car stolen).
My premium last year was £537. Auto-renewal came through for £796. Just a 47% hike!!
I phoned them back, spoke to someone who tried to do something, but her “improved” quote was a whole £1 better than the initial auto-renewal!

The comparison sites gave me a dozen other quotes under £650, all comparable, so I’ve binned off direct line, which is a shame as I’ve been with them 8 years. Their customer service is always good and they do always seem very helpful, but I can’t live with them being 40%+ over the others. I went with LV in the end, so now I guess I await the inevitable horror stories of how bad they are!!

ETA - with the rising cost of fuel, insurance, tax, tyres, and just about everything else too, I’m seriously considering flogging this car in the next 6-12 months (2019 Octavia VRS “challenge”) and just running something cheap and cheerful for a bit. I can’t be arsed with the amount it costs to run a half-decent car these days. Especially with a dog and two small kids who just relentlessly damage and dirty everything they come into contact with. What’s the point?

Edited by TeaNoSugar on Tuesday 4th July 11:36

[bencollins4]

pb8g09 said:

ChrisH72 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

pb8g09 said:

The argument is that courtesy car costs have increased 30% and other costs have gone up significantly - but if that was the real truth, then why can't I opt out of having a courtesy car and see a drop in the price?!

How do you opt out the third party who you hit from having a courtesy car? Maybe for 3 months or more because they can't get the parts due to Brexit. I'll wait for your answer.

I imagine he means to opt out of himself having a courtesy car. The third party can get one from their own insurer. Isn't that how it works?

My in laws has some self inflicted damage to their car recently resulting in a new door. It took a month to fix so they had the courtesy car all that time.

Thanks. That is what I meant.

You can choose what elements of your contents to insure on your home insurance, I would have thought you could also do the same on your car insurance.

Not sure my question required such an OTT response...

The point is, courtesy cars which insurers have control over are not expensive, it’s the credit hire element that is proving so expensive and often uncontrollable.

The comment above about a Tesla repair is a case in point about where the costs lie and that they become out of control in fault claims. We are often telling our customers (I’m a broker for fleets), whatever you do, don’t hit a Tesla!

Seriously though, the claims costs we see on a daily basis would seem pretty outrageous to people outside the industry, and guess what, we all have to pay for them.

[Dingu]

ChrisH72 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

pb8g09 said:

The argument is that courtesy car costs have increased 30% and other costs have gone up significantly - but if that was the real truth, then why can't I opt out of having a courtesy car and see a drop in the price?!

How do you opt out the third party who you hit from having a courtesy car? Maybe for 3 months or more because they can't get the parts due to Brexit. I'll wait for your answer.

I imagine he means to opt out of himself having a courtesy car. The third party can get one from their own insurer. Isn't that how it works?

My in laws has some self inflicted damage to their car recently resulting in a new door. It took a month to fix so they had the courtesy car all that time.

Who pays for the third party car regardless of who provides it though?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Dingu said:

ChrisH72 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

pb8g09 said:

The argument is that courtesy car costs have increased 30% and other costs have gone up significantly - but if that was the real truth, then why can't I opt out of having a courtesy car and see a drop in the price?!

How do you opt out the third party who you hit from having a courtesy car? Maybe for 3 months or more because they can't get the parts due to Brexit. I'll wait for your answer.

I imagine he means to opt out of himself having a courtesy car. The third party can get one from their own insurer. Isn't that how it works?

My in laws has some self inflicted damage to their car recently resulting in a new door. It took a month to fix so they had the courtesy car all that time.

Who pays for the third party car regardless of who provides it though?

Eventually, the insurer of the driver at fault.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

pb8g09 said:

ChrisH72 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

pb8g09 said:

The argument is that courtesy car costs have increased 30% and other costs have gone up significantly - but if that was the real truth, then why can't I opt out of having a courtesy car and see a drop in the price?!

How do you opt out the third party who you hit from having a courtesy car? Maybe for 3 months or more because they can't get the parts due to Brexit. I'll wait for your answer.

I imagine he means to opt out of himself having a courtesy car. The third party can get one from their own insurer. Isn't that how it works?

My in laws has some self inflicted damage to their car recently resulting in a new door. It took a month to fix so they had the courtesy car all that time.

Thanks. That is what I meant.

You can choose what elements of your contents to insure on your home insurance, I would have thought you could also do the same on your car insurance.

Not sure my question required such an OTT response...

You just don't understand the situation you're commenting on. 85% of your premium is to cover the third party costs. To compensate the person you crash into, accident repairs, courtesy car, maybe for a long time, and in a like for like car, not the Citroen C1 your insurers are contracted to provide you with, injury to the driver and passengers. The remaining 15% covers your own costs, repairing your car, and giving you a courtesy car at far lower cost than the tp courtesy car as your insurers can control your costs.

Want to jettison your own courtesy car cost.....fine, he's your £3 reduction on a £1000 premium.

[Monkeylegend]

pb8g09 said:

Thanks. That is what I meant.

You can choose what elements of your contents to insure on your home insurance, I would have thought you could also do the same on your car insurance.

Not sure my question required such an OTT response...

You can.

Do an online quote and some companies will include it as standard, others offer it as an extra.

The additional cost is minimal compared to the overall premium. Well it was for me a few weeks ago when I did some online quotes.

[Ankh87]

I've found that cars up to 2013 are cheaper to insure than those newer.

I looked at 2 identical cars one 2012 and the other 2014 and the 2014 model were £200 a year more. The only thing different were the age, specs of both cars are the same.

So maybe look into an older car as it could save you some money?

[pb8g09]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

You just don't understand the situation you're commenting on. 85% of your premium is to cover the third party costs. To compensate the person you crash into, accident repairs, courtesy car, maybe for a long time, and in a like for like car, not the Citroen C1 your insurers are contracted to provide you with, injury to the driver and passengers. The remaining 15% covers your own costs, repairing your car, and giving you a courtesy car at far lower cost than the tp courtesy car as your insurers can control your costs.

Want to jettison your own courtesy car cost.....fine, he's your £3 reduction on a £1000 premium.

Indeed, I don't understand the situation, hence I asked it as a question.

I didn't expect an answer as incredulous as if everything you've just said is common knowledge. It's not even common knowledge to those in the industry - by the fact it's not even in the syllabus of CII...