23yo looking for a relatively sensible V8… 2010 Jaguar XFR?
Discussion
Fuel, tax, and insurance will for sure be expensive, but (for whatever reason) good examples of a 5.0 s/c XFR are so affordable, that the initial savings vs. buying most other sporty cars mostly than make up for it (at least for the first couple years). For example, a decent M140i will cost north of £16,500 - whereas I can find a decent ~2010 XFR for £12,500. So that initial £4000 lower price tag will help ease the higher general running costs - at least for the first few years anyway, and I at least get the nice V8 rather than an I6 too (not that I6s are bad - but they’re not as special imo). Also, I realise an M140i comparison is kind of random - but it’s something that is still RWD, sporty, and has a decent chunk of power - but with a more ‘economically conscious powertrain’ (but higher initial cost) to compare to.
I start with this, because I’m trying to illustrate how I want to have my cake and eat it too. I want a great and refined touring car that is a great place to be for the longest and most traffic jammed of journeys; I want something that is no less fun or capable than my boy-racer 280bhp MK2 Seat Leon; and (whilst it may be vain to say) I want something that is special, and something of a status symbol. I want that beautiful rumble that immediately makes most other car comparisons redundant with “yeah, but this has a powerful and great sounding V8 under the hood”.
BUT - i’m young, and I also want something financially responsible. I don’t have a mortgage, and I’ve finally gotten to a point in life where I (quite suddenly) actually have some disposable income (and a decent amount, relatively speaking from my past circumstances).
So, I’m quite wary about turning into a fool by negating my newly acquired financial security/freedom by pissing all of my money down the drain like any other stereotypical young man. But, I do love my cars - and I am kind of overdue to enjoy a little bit of lifestyle creep so long as it’s within reason and doesn’t get out of hand. Basically, trying to find a middle-ground between being absolutely frugal (like I have been forced to in the past) and being an utter t
t by spending large amounts of my income at a time where it’s important for me to save and plan towards my future. So, basically trying not to do something utterly stupid (relative to my current life situation), like flushing half of my monthly income down the drain every month towards financing a 2021 C63 AMG.
Anyway, all this to say - I am hoping to have fairly predictable costs, and I don’t want to be worrying about some common problem that could potentially sink a £4000 hole in my wallet or anything like that. Obviously, every car is different, and anything can go wrong - but I don’t want to buy a car that I am certain is a ticking time bomb either. I am a qualified technician that owns lots of general tools, so if something is a reasonable job on a driveway with axle stands - I can do that myself quite easily - but I don’t want to have to worry about big jobs that require lots and lots of stripping (or gearbox/engine out) being an inevitability in my potential future ownership either. So, I’m just wondering if anyone can comment on this? Also, any things to look out for in particular with these pre-facelift XFRs? (For example,!I’ve heard something about the dash leather peeling from the sun - or something like that?)
For reference, i’m eyeing this one up at the moment: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306148...
Also, i’d like to hear people’s opinions on the brakes, gearbox, and diff on these (if anyone has had the privilege of actually owning one/trying one out)! Are the brakes good and able to manage with the 2 ton kerb weight without brake fade being a massive issue? Is the gearbox programmed well? Does it mostly do what you want it to do? And what’s the E-LSD like? Is it good for the occasional hooning and sliding? (Not on public roads of course).
Thanks a lot for any replies/engagement, peoples!
I start with this, because I’m trying to illustrate how I want to have my cake and eat it too. I want a great and refined touring car that is a great place to be for the longest and most traffic jammed of journeys; I want something that is no less fun or capable than my boy-racer 280bhp MK2 Seat Leon; and (whilst it may be vain to say) I want something that is special, and something of a status symbol. I want that beautiful rumble that immediately makes most other car comparisons redundant with “yeah, but this has a powerful and great sounding V8 under the hood”.
BUT - i’m young, and I also want something financially responsible. I don’t have a mortgage, and I’ve finally gotten to a point in life where I (quite suddenly) actually have some disposable income (and a decent amount, relatively speaking from my past circumstances).
So, I’m quite wary about turning into a fool by negating my newly acquired financial security/freedom by pissing all of my money down the drain like any other stereotypical young man. But, I do love my cars - and I am kind of overdue to enjoy a little bit of lifestyle creep so long as it’s within reason and doesn’t get out of hand. Basically, trying to find a middle-ground between being absolutely frugal (like I have been forced to in the past) and being an utter t
t by spending large amounts of my income at a time where it’s important for me to save and plan towards my future. So, basically trying not to do something utterly stupid (relative to my current life situation), like flushing half of my monthly income down the drain every month towards financing a 2021 C63 AMG. Anyway, all this to say - I am hoping to have fairly predictable costs, and I don’t want to be worrying about some common problem that could potentially sink a £4000 hole in my wallet or anything like that. Obviously, every car is different, and anything can go wrong - but I don’t want to buy a car that I am certain is a ticking time bomb either. I am a qualified technician that owns lots of general tools, so if something is a reasonable job on a driveway with axle stands - I can do that myself quite easily - but I don’t want to have to worry about big jobs that require lots and lots of stripping (or gearbox/engine out) being an inevitability in my potential future ownership either. So, I’m just wondering if anyone can comment on this? Also, any things to look out for in particular with these pre-facelift XFRs? (For example,!I’ve heard something about the dash leather peeling from the sun - or something like that?)
For reference, i’m eyeing this one up at the moment: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306148...
Also, i’d like to hear people’s opinions on the brakes, gearbox, and diff on these (if anyone has had the privilege of actually owning one/trying one out)! Are the brakes good and able to manage with the 2 ton kerb weight without brake fade being a massive issue? Is the gearbox programmed well? Does it mostly do what you want it to do? And what’s the E-LSD like? Is it good for the occasional hooning and sliding? (Not on public roads of course).
Thanks a lot for any replies/engagement, peoples!
I could have written all that myself, I'm currently looking for a Jaguar XFR. I really want an Alpina B3S but not many available as a Coupe so looking for alternatives such as the 5.0 V8 Lexus ISF.
Currently have a lovely VW Golf Edition 30 with @230BHP from the Factory.
Some Internet issues concern me such as electrical issues, rust (sill covers have foam behind), faulty injectors, coolant hose leak in the V valley, supercharger @ £4k & timing chain @ £8k at Dealer, rear diff, Rear subframes rust.
I'm also looking at Jaguar XE 3.0S as you can put a smaller pully on the supercharger.
Keep the thread updated if you can as I'm sure it'll be useful for others.
Currently have a lovely VW Golf Edition 30 with @230BHP from the Factory.
Some Internet issues concern me such as electrical issues, rust (sill covers have foam behind), faulty injectors, coolant hose leak in the V valley, supercharger @ £4k & timing chain @ £8k at Dealer, rear diff, Rear subframes rust.
I'm also looking at Jaguar XE 3.0S as you can put a smaller pully on the supercharger.
Keep the thread updated if you can as I'm sure it'll be useful for others.
I'm sure you'll dismiss and ignore this, but here goes...
Do not forget that this was a £65k+ car 13 years ago, and the running costs do not reduce with the car's depreciation. Fuel, insurance, tax yeah yeah yeah. I don't mean that. I mean the amount you're going to be paying for consumables like bit fat wide 20" tyres capable of 250bhp through each rear. How much you'll spend on the large discs and brake pads. How much you'll pay for replacement adaptive dampers which *will* be on their last legs on a heavily depreciated XFR you can pick up for £12,500. Suspension bushes are common replacement items on these. They're not particularly expensive, but I'm 42 now and have thousands of pounds worth of tools and 2.5 decades of experience - chances are you'll be paying garages to replace them and that adds up fast - they may even want to replace the whole cast aluminium alloy control arms and there are 8 of them on the car. The XF is really just an S-Type and whilst they were lovely cars they are prone to sill corrosion. Again no big deal for me, but possibly a killer for you. That's before we get into any residual major borkage risk. The AJ-V8 Gen III engine and ZF gearboxes are pretty reliable but not invincible.
Cars like this are entirely capable of bleeding the average 23 year old dry.
You say you don't have a mortgage. That's understandable - the housing market is horrible nowadays. I so much wish I could implant my knowledge and perspective I have now into myself when I was still your age. Things I convinced myself were good things to blow my money on at 23 years old I absolutely would not do again if I could change things.
If you desperately want the car, don't let me stop you. Don't lie to yourself though in thinking it's "financially responsible" to use your own words. It's a big car with big ability to burn your money, and don't kid yourself otherwise. You may not have a mortgage but that doesn't mean the best thing you can do with your income is marry a car which will own you.
Do not forget that this was a £65k+ car 13 years ago, and the running costs do not reduce with the car's depreciation. Fuel, insurance, tax yeah yeah yeah. I don't mean that. I mean the amount you're going to be paying for consumables like bit fat wide 20" tyres capable of 250bhp through each rear. How much you'll spend on the large discs and brake pads. How much you'll pay for replacement adaptive dampers which *will* be on their last legs on a heavily depreciated XFR you can pick up for £12,500. Suspension bushes are common replacement items on these. They're not particularly expensive, but I'm 42 now and have thousands of pounds worth of tools and 2.5 decades of experience - chances are you'll be paying garages to replace them and that adds up fast - they may even want to replace the whole cast aluminium alloy control arms and there are 8 of them on the car. The XF is really just an S-Type and whilst they were lovely cars they are prone to sill corrosion. Again no big deal for me, but possibly a killer for you. That's before we get into any residual major borkage risk. The AJ-V8 Gen III engine and ZF gearboxes are pretty reliable but not invincible.
Cars like this are entirely capable of bleeding the average 23 year old dry.
You say you don't have a mortgage. That's understandable - the housing market is horrible nowadays. I so much wish I could implant my knowledge and perspective I have now into myself when I was still your age. Things I convinced myself were good things to blow my money on at 23 years old I absolutely would not do again if I could change things.
If you desperately want the car, don't let me stop you. Don't lie to yourself though in thinking it's "financially responsible" to use your own words. It's a big car with big ability to burn your money, and don't kid yourself otherwise. You may not have a mortgage but that doesn't mean the best thing you can do with your income is marry a car which will own you.
jamieduff1981 said:
I'm sure you'll dismiss and ignore this, but here goes...
Do not forget that this was a £65k+ car 13 years ago, and the running costs do not reduce with the car's depreciation. Fuel, insurance, tax yeah yeah yeah. I don't mean that. I mean the amount you're going to be paying for consumables like bit fat wide 20" tyres capable of 250bhp through each rear. How much you'll spend on the large discs and brake pads. How much you'll pay for replacement adaptive dampers which *will* be on their last legs on a heavily depreciated XFR you can pick up for £12,500. Suspension bushes are common replacement items on these. They're not particularly expensive, but I'm 42 now and have thousands of pounds worth of tools and 2.5 decades of experience - chances are you'll be paying garages to replace them and that adds up fast - they may even want to replace the whole cast aluminium alloy control arms and there are 8 of them on the car. The XF is really just an S-Type and whilst they were lovely cars they are prone to sill corrosion. Again no big deal for me, but possibly a killer for you. That's before we get into any residual major borkage risk. The AJ-V8 Gen III engine and ZF gearboxes are pretty reliable but not invincible.
Cars like this are entirely capable of bleeding the average 23 year old dry.
You say you don't have a mortgage. That's understandable - the housing market is horrible nowadays. I so much wish I could implant my knowledge and perspective I have now into myself when I was still your age. Things I convinced myself were good things to blow my money on at 23 years old I absolutely would not do again if I could change things.
If you desperately want the car, don't let me stop you. Don't lie to yourself though in thinking it's "financially responsible" to use your own words. It's a big car with big ability to burn your money, and don't kid yourself otherwise. You may not have a mortgage but that doesn't mean the best thing you can do with your income is marry a car which will own you.
Did you miss the part where I said I was also a qualified tech with my own tools too? Haha. I am pretty green though, and I don’t have 2.5 decades of experience like you either (and i’m sure you have more tools) - but regardless of whether I can do all of those jobs - realistically, I don’t really want to anyway! So you do make excellent points. Do not forget that this was a £65k+ car 13 years ago, and the running costs do not reduce with the car's depreciation. Fuel, insurance, tax yeah yeah yeah. I don't mean that. I mean the amount you're going to be paying for consumables like bit fat wide 20" tyres capable of 250bhp through each rear. How much you'll spend on the large discs and brake pads. How much you'll pay for replacement adaptive dampers which *will* be on their last legs on a heavily depreciated XFR you can pick up for £12,500. Suspension bushes are common replacement items on these. They're not particularly expensive, but I'm 42 now and have thousands of pounds worth of tools and 2.5 decades of experience - chances are you'll be paying garages to replace them and that adds up fast - they may even want to replace the whole cast aluminium alloy control arms and there are 8 of them on the car. The XF is really just an S-Type and whilst they were lovely cars they are prone to sill corrosion. Again no big deal for me, but possibly a killer for you. That's before we get into any residual major borkage risk. The AJ-V8 Gen III engine and ZF gearboxes are pretty reliable but not invincible.
Cars like this are entirely capable of bleeding the average 23 year old dry.
You say you don't have a mortgage. That's understandable - the housing market is horrible nowadays. I so much wish I could implant my knowledge and perspective I have now into myself when I was still your age. Things I convinced myself were good things to blow my money on at 23 years old I absolutely would not do again if I could change things.
If you desperately want the car, don't let me stop you. Don't lie to yourself though in thinking it's "financially responsible" to use your own words. It's a big car with big ability to burn your money, and don't kid yourself otherwise. You may not have a mortgage but that doesn't mean the best thing you can do with your income is marry a car which will own you.
Expensive tyres and brakes I can live with - but getting too involved with the car mechanically (and constantly replacing things ever couple of months) doesn’t make me particularly enthusiastic.
I 100% agree with your last point too. The point about not having a mortgage wasn’t supposed to be a good reason for justifying a crazy car purchase - it was more about me acknowledging that I have more important things to be putting my money towards (like saving for a mortgage) rather than allowing a fancy car to bleed me dry hahaha.
I was looking at the 4.2L V8 Audi S5 too, but i imagine it will have the same sort of problems (and to be honest, I’m unenthusiastic about <300whp and the lack of sliding ability).
I’m still going to have a look at some XFRs anyway, but will definitely keep in mind what you’re saying. If I do end up buying one, it will at least be with an extensive history of preventative maintenance and one that looks clean underneath. I’m not exactly looking to buy one just right now anyway. Probably around the end of the year i’d be willing to bite the bullet. (Just getting ideas for now).
Lincsls1 said:
^^^Fantastic reply, and well worth paying attention to.
I'd be mortgage free if I hadn't pissed around with daft expensive cars through my 20's.
I am trying to be mindful of this fact, because I know it’s kind of daft to be in my position and waste all of my money on a nice car - but surely there is a middle ground? I just can’t get the idea of a cross-plane V8 RWD out of my head though hahaha. I'd be mortgage free if I hadn't pissed around with daft expensive cars through my 20's.
The initial cost of the car is just over a third of my yearly income, after tax. For sure the running costs will be relatively high - and I could save a lot of money by choosing something else - but it’s not like i’m trying to finance a brand new mustang, right?
Do I just sound like every other 23yo that has convinced himself that he needs to own a cool car? Hahaha.
Monkeylegend said:
I think you have already made your mind up
Out of interest have you had any insurance quotes yet. The insurance market seems to getting more expensive according to PH, just wondering what sort of quotes a 23 year old would get on a car like that.
Probably not cheap https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...Out of interest have you had any insurance quotes yet. The insurance market seems to getting more expensive according to PH, just wondering what sort of quotes a 23 year old would get on a car like that.
Haha, I have actually managed to find a broker who pretty much disregards most of that stuff now (Brentacre). I still am upfront about everything, but the cancellation doesn’t affect me anymore - so the only thing on my record is 3 points and a minor claim back in 2019.
But, even with my modified (all declared) Leon, i’m now paying the least for insurance I ever have, and it’s an amount i’m more than happy with. That’s with business miles too. For sure I need to call Brentacre up and ask about the XFR though. It is possible that it won’t be doable though.
But, even with my modified (all declared) Leon, i’m now paying the least for insurance I ever have, and it’s an amount i’m more than happy with. That’s with business miles too. For sure I need to call Brentacre up and ask about the XFR though. It is possible that it won’t be doable though.
Monkeylegend said:
I think you have already made your mind up
Out of interest have you had any insurance quotes yet. The insurance market seems to getting more expensive according to PH, just wondering what sort of quotes a 23 year old would get on a car like that.
What would you recommend for my current situation then? Something that isn’t absolutely frugal like a £1000 corolla hahaha. Out of interest have you had any insurance quotes yet. The insurance market seems to getting more expensive according to PH, just wondering what sort of quotes a 23 year old would get on a car like that.
Could you see yourself being happy with the non-supercharged one?
Potentially I lot less ruinous to your bank balance? Plenty of pace, the V8 noise, class.
Probably still not a 'sensible' choice for a 23 year old man.
Just one example...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266148701060?hash=item3...
Potentially I lot less ruinous to your bank balance? Plenty of pace, the V8 noise, class.
Probably still not a 'sensible' choice for a 23 year old man.
Just one example...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266148701060?hash=item3...
I did something similar although not a V8 I bought an E46 M3. I wanted something special away from the norm. However one thing you realise about performance cars is the constant care they need to keep them ticking.
I've now bought an M6 V10 albeit for financially stable now I'd just say to go in with your eyes open as that 4k saving will quickly evaporate through tax and insurance. Tax being 700 a year and then fuel. If the 5.0 V8 is anything like the V10 you'll swallow tanks at an alarming rate.
I've not managed more than 24mpg or 250 from £90 and in about 2 months I've done 1500 miles and probably swallowed 500 in fuel already. The 24 mpg and 250 is on a steady drive, the V10 averages 10-13 regularly.
So although I say you should do things while you're young I would walk into all situation with eyes wide open and if it makes sense in the long run then go for it but remember these cars were 60k plus when new and those running costs stay
I've now bought an M6 V10 albeit for financially stable now I'd just say to go in with your eyes open as that 4k saving will quickly evaporate through tax and insurance. Tax being 700 a year and then fuel. If the 5.0 V8 is anything like the V10 you'll swallow tanks at an alarming rate.
I've not managed more than 24mpg or 250 from £90 and in about 2 months I've done 1500 miles and probably swallowed 500 in fuel already. The 24 mpg and 250 is on a steady drive, the V10 averages 10-13 regularly.
So although I say you should do things while you're young I would walk into all situation with eyes wide open and if it makes sense in the long run then go for it but remember these cars were 60k plus when new and those running costs stay
Lincsls1 said:
Could you see yourself being happy with the non-supercharged one?
Potentially I lot less ruinous to your bank balance? Plenty of pace, the V8 noise, class.
Probably still not a 'sensible' choice for a 23 year old man.
Just one example...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266148701060?hash=item3...
Actually, yeah, I probably could live with that. The power to weight isn’t noticeably worse than what I already drive (and whilst faster is always nicer, my car is admittedly enough for UK roads). Not to mention it’s NA compared to my turbo - so the increased throttle response would probably make up for any slight decrease in power to weight ratio. Potentially I lot less ruinous to your bank balance? Plenty of pace, the V8 noise, class.
Probably still not a 'sensible' choice for a 23 year old man.
Just one example...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266148701060?hash=item3...
I’d more so be concerned about the difference in handling and stuff. I know it may seem silly to take a 2ton jag to the track - but I probably would every now and then, and it would be a shame to be wanting more from the brakes, diff, and suspension in such cases.
Those jags are a couple of years and one technical problem from being next to worthless.
Cars like that are already getting dismantled for parts.
I would only suggest buying one if you are prepared to pour money into it and write the money off very quickly.
You may be lucky.
But if you're going to use the performance I think you may find a lot of things will start to go wrong, or at least show their age.
Most of these cars spend their lives bimbling on an old man's commute.
Or wafting down to the South of France.
Running a 100BHP shed, I think I'm doing well if I better £1k a year for repairs and depreciation.
You are talking about 5x the power, expect >5x the cost.
You may be fine with that, in which case, enjoy!
Or consider a Maserati.
Cars like that are already getting dismantled for parts.
I would only suggest buying one if you are prepared to pour money into it and write the money off very quickly.
You may be lucky.
But if you're going to use the performance I think you may find a lot of things will start to go wrong, or at least show their age.
Most of these cars spend their lives bimbling on an old man's commute.
Or wafting down to the South of France.
Running a 100BHP shed, I think I'm doing well if I better £1k a year for repairs and depreciation.
You are talking about 5x the power, expect >5x the cost.
You may be fine with that, in which case, enjoy!
Or consider a Maserati.
FakeCarGuy said:
Monkeylegend said:
I think you have already made your mind up
Out of interest have you had any insurance quotes yet. The insurance market seems to getting more expensive according to PH, just wondering what sort of quotes a 23 year old would get on a car like that.
What would you recommend for my current situation then? Something that isn’t absolutely frugal like a £1000 corolla hahaha. Out of interest have you had any insurance quotes yet. The insurance market seems to getting more expensive according to PH, just wondering what sort of quotes a 23 year old would get on a car like that.
When I was 23 I had a Lotus Elan S4 but insurance did seem to be a lot more affordable in those days, houses were soooo much cheaper comparatively, and mortgages easy to get.
If you want a V8 Jag get one, only you know if you can afford it and what else you want to do with your money.
I was genuinely interested in how much the insurance premium would be for a 23 year old.
Simply that
XKR will feel more special more of the time if you don't need saloon practicality.
Of course the sensible answer is don't. I bought an e39 M5 at 24 but I did have a house. Wouldn't in a million years have entertained the idea without already being on the property ladder but each to their own.
Of course the sensible answer is don't. I bought an e39 M5 at 24 but I did have a house. Wouldn't in a million years have entertained the idea without already being on the property ladder but each to their own.
Monkeylegend said:
Not sure where you got that idea from.
When I was 23 I had a Lotus Elan S4 but insurance did seem to be a lot more affordable in those days, houses were soooo much cheaper comparatively, and mortgages easy to get.
If you want a V8 Jag get one, only you know if you can afford it and what else you want to do with your money.
I was genuinely interested in how much the insurance premium would be for a 23 year old.
Simply that
Wasn’t having a dig, was genuinely curious for your opinion myself! I’ll call brentacre sometime soon and see what they say to get back to you! When I was 23 I had a Lotus Elan S4 but insurance did seem to be a lot more affordable in those days, houses were soooo much cheaper comparatively, and mortgages easy to get.
If you want a V8 Jag get one, only you know if you can afford it and what else you want to do with your money.
I was genuinely interested in how much the insurance premium would be for a 23 year old.
Simply that
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