Car leasing:Your chance to be right and to show me I’m wrong
Discussion
Whenever car prices, and especially leasing, comes up for discussion I regularly chip in and basically say leasing is a clever way to rip people off. One reason for that is my hatred of debt and the other is that I’ve never been able to find a deal that represents good value. I’ve found deals I can ‘afford’ but never anything that makes sense once you add up all the costs. Here’s an example of a car that would probably make it onto my short list:
5 door Audi S3.
OTR price plus metallic paint £41,280.
Four year lease deal:
6 months deposit: £3970
Monthly payment: £662
Admin fee: £294
Total cost over four years: £36,040
Now I appreciate there is interest to pay on a loan or lost interest to factor in if you’re paying cash from savings but only a total financial fruitcake would sign up for that deal. Four year old, 60K S3s are £20,000+. In my eyes this lease deal has you virtually buy the car outright before you hand it back to the lease company for them to make another £15k on the second hand market.
So, can anyone give me an example of a lease deal for a car that actually makes financial sense? Personal lease ONLY. No useless 5000 mile contracts. And please keep it sensible - I’m sure there is a cracking deal on a dreadful car in an awful colour with abysmal spec that no one wants. Choose a car you would be happy to own.
5 door Audi S3.
OTR price plus metallic paint £41,280.
Four year lease deal:
6 months deposit: £3970
Monthly payment: £662
Admin fee: £294
Total cost over four years: £36,040
Now I appreciate there is interest to pay on a loan or lost interest to factor in if you’re paying cash from savings but only a total financial fruitcake would sign up for that deal. Four year old, 60K S3s are £20,000+. In my eyes this lease deal has you virtually buy the car outright before you hand it back to the lease company for them to make another £15k on the second hand market.
So, can anyone give me an example of a lease deal for a car that actually makes financial sense? Personal lease ONLY. No useless 5000 mile contracts. And please keep it sensible - I’m sure there is a cracking deal on a dreadful car in an awful colour with abysmal spec that no one wants. Choose a car you would be happy to own.
I think you've got to be careful with these deals as some of them can be a rip off and rely on some folk just wanting to "be in the car". Ive leased for years and it makes perfect sense if the numbers add up. I usually get them when a new model is just about to be launched into the market and they're keen to get them out there.
Take the current Lexus NX SUV Ive recently got;
c. £50k vehicle
c. £3,330 deposit
c. £370 inc VAT pcm
4 Year deal
So you pay about £21,000 over the term but that's just the depreciation of that vehicle anyway. Take into account that you won't pay any roadtax, any MoTs, probably won't need any parts throwing at at for the term, probably service it once in that term, and it's a no brainer for me.
HTH
C
Take the current Lexus NX SUV Ive recently got;
c. £50k vehicle
c. £3,330 deposit
c. £370 inc VAT pcm
4 Year deal
So you pay about £21,000 over the term but that's just the depreciation of that vehicle anyway. Take into account that you won't pay any roadtax, any MoTs, probably won't need any parts throwing at at for the term, probably service it once in that term, and it's a no brainer for me.
HTH
C
I think for most, it's simply, 'I can afford this much and get X on the drive way'. It's the cheapest monthly payment for a car basically. I'm not sure I've ever been convinced by it as an overall way of 'owning' a car.
I've just never seen the value in putting down a deposit, making payments that pretty much cover the loan and depreciation then either buying the car for near to what it's worth (it may be worth a bit more but may be worth less) or just giving it back.
I've just never seen the value in putting down a deposit, making payments that pretty much cover the loan and depreciation then either buying the car for near to what it's worth (it may be worth a bit more but may be worth less) or just giving it back.
No currently as lease deals are now no longer VFM, however there's been loads of cracking deals over the years.
E.g. 2019 I had a Volvo V90 CC on a 1+17 for 8k miles for £272/month.
That was a £48k car, which was then sold at the end of the contract to the next owner for £21k.
P.S. there was a brucie bonus of 3 months free duing C19, so the cost was in the end around £238/month.
E.g. 2019 I had a Volvo V90 CC on a 1+17 for 8k miles for £272/month.
That was a £48k car, which was then sold at the end of the contract to the next owner for £21k.
P.S. there was a brucie bonus of 3 months free duing C19, so the cost was in the end around £238/month.
For every negative scenario, I'm sure their is a positive.
I leased a VW Golf Mk7.5R Estate a few years back when those insane deals were about. Think I was paying about £234 per month. Took a 2yr lease & loved the car that much i extended twice for 6mths, both times the monthlies lowering (think it was £219 for the 1st additional 6mths & £207 for the 2nd additional 6mths.
The original Lease was a 6+23, so my Lease outlay for that first 2yrs was £6,786.00, then £1,314.00 fir the next 6mths & £1,242.00 for the final 6mths. Thus the total Lease outlay over 36mths was £9,342.00, which given the list price of the car was circa £36.5k, i didn't think was too bad.
Given i still loved the car, i asked VWFS for a purchase figure, which if I recall was just a smidge over £20k, so all in a paid £29k for a £36.5k car. This i felt was decent & even taking potential cash purchase discounts into account, what with factoring in the actual cost of money, I'd say this was a win
I leased a VW Golf Mk7.5R Estate a few years back when those insane deals were about. Think I was paying about £234 per month. Took a 2yr lease & loved the car that much i extended twice for 6mths, both times the monthlies lowering (think it was £219 for the 1st additional 6mths & £207 for the 2nd additional 6mths.
The original Lease was a 6+23, so my Lease outlay for that first 2yrs was £6,786.00, then £1,314.00 fir the next 6mths & £1,242.00 for the final 6mths. Thus the total Lease outlay over 36mths was £9,342.00, which given the list price of the car was circa £36.5k, i didn't think was too bad.
Given i still loved the car, i asked VWFS for a purchase figure, which if I recall was just a smidge over £20k, so all in a paid £29k for a £36.5k car. This i felt was decent & even taking potential cash purchase discounts into account, what with factoring in the actual cost of money, I'd say this was a win
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't (OP example). For those who want a modern hassle free car on their drive where the deal works it makes sense. However rightly so sometimes vulnerable people (those that want the latest thing or don't get finance) are absolutely shafted.
Personally I'm like you OP and don't like debt and not interested in leasing a car. I buy and keep for a long time and touch wood have had no real costs to deal with on my daily cars over the last decade and my MOT is timed to be the same time as my annual service. I do have 2 to 3 modern classics at any one time though so not all my miles are done on my daily. If I were not in this position would have changed it through boredom and possibly considered a lease if the numbers stacked up.
Personally I'm like you OP and don't like debt and not interested in leasing a car. I buy and keep for a long time and touch wood have had no real costs to deal with on my daily cars over the last decade and my MOT is timed to be the same time as my annual service. I do have 2 to 3 modern classics at any one time though so not all my miles are done on my daily. If I were not in this position would have changed it through boredom and possibly considered a lease if the numbers stacked up.
Yep, it's all about looking for the deals on leases and moving quickly when you see one. Don't be too picky on spec (or sometimes even make/model).
I had 2.5yrs driving a cheap Golf R Mk7.5 and the same again in a cheap BMW 840i Gran Coupé until Nov. last year. Lease deals where s
t at that stage so instead I bought a car outright for the time being. It's about making the right choice at the right time.
I had 2.5yrs driving a cheap Golf R Mk7.5 and the same again in a cheap BMW 840i Gran Coupé until Nov. last year. Lease deals where s
t at that stage so instead I bought a car outright for the time being. It's about making the right choice at the right time.This took me about 30 seconds to find.
https://leasing.com/main-dealers/berry-bmw-heathro...
BMW 840i M-Sport
List price £77,185
Cost of lease over 48 months: £31,752
Similar cars at 3 years old (let alone 4) are on AT at £40k. If you paid cash for the car, you'd get....what....£35k on trade in, if you're lucky?
The lease therefore costs less than the depreciation.
https://leasing.com/main-dealers/berry-bmw-heathro...
BMW 840i M-Sport
List price £77,185
Cost of lease over 48 months: £31,752
Similar cars at 3 years old (let alone 4) are on AT at £40k. If you paid cash for the car, you'd get....what....£35k on trade in, if you're lucky?
The lease therefore costs less than the depreciation.
Lexus NX deal looks very good given how highly I regard Toyota/Lexus engineering. I’ll take a look at those.
I will acknowledge the Golf R deals from a few years ago were very good. Same is true for the 135i. I rather feel they were a quirk of the car market and interest rates at the time though.
BMW 840…mmmm. I get the maths argument but those big German oddballs are always the most heavily discounted car on Broadspeed etc. Take £10k of the list price as a typical discount and the waters start to muddy a litttle.
I will acknowledge the Golf R deals from a few years ago were very good. Same is true for the 135i. I rather feel they were a quirk of the car market and interest rates at the time though.
BMW 840…mmmm. I get the maths argument but those big German oddballs are always the most heavily discounted car on Broadspeed etc. Take £10k of the list price as a typical discount and the waters start to muddy a litttle.
Sheepshanks said:
SonicHedgeHog said:
So, can anyone give me an example of a lease deal for a car that actually makes financial sense?
Why? You've already made your mind up that leasing is a clever way to rip people off and you hate debt.
SonicHedgeHog said:
BMW 840…mmmm. I get the maths argument but those big German oddballs are always the most heavily discounted car on Broadspeed etc. Take £10k of the list price as a typical discount and the waters start to muddy a litttle.
Those weren't the rules you set.You compared list price and depreciation to lease cost.
The BMW works.
Besides; let's say you did get £10k off it new. Using an optimistic trade-in value, it still makes as much financial sense as buying the car and then selling it in 3/4 years time.
Muzzer79 said:
This took me about 30 seconds to find.
https://leasing.com/main-dealers/berry-bmw-heathro...
BMW 840i M-Sport
List price £77,185
Cost of lease over 48 months: £31,752
Similar cars at 3 years old (let alone 4) are on AT at £40k. If you paid cash for the car, you'd get....what....£35k on trade in, if you're lucky?
The lease therefore costs less than the depreciation.
Also, you've had £31k (Minus deposit) sat against your credit profile for the duration of the lease, rather than the full car value (Minus deposit) if you'd gone via PCP. This might not be a deciding factor but it's a little bonus if it's also the cheaper option.https://leasing.com/main-dealers/berry-bmw-heathro...
BMW 840i M-Sport
List price £77,185
Cost of lease over 48 months: £31,752
Similar cars at 3 years old (let alone 4) are on AT at £40k. If you paid cash for the car, you'd get....what....£35k on trade in, if you're lucky?
The lease therefore costs less than the depreciation.
I know those weren’t the rules I set and I’ve admitted your deal kind of stacks up. It is however a fair point for me to raise that you have chosen a car which probably has as big an RRP- discount as anything on the market. It is also a very niche car. But fair enough that one stacks up. Does anyone have a less niche alternative?
SonicHedgeHog said:
Lexus NX deal looks very good given how highly I regard Toyota/Lexus engineering. I’ll take a look at those.
I will acknowledge the Golf R deals from a few years ago were very good. Same is true for the 135i. I rather feel they were a quirk of the car market and interest rates at the time though.
BMW 840…mmmm. I get the maths argument but those big German oddballs are always the most heavily discounted car on Broadspeed etc. Take £10k of the list price as a typical discount and the waters start to muddy a litttle.
Any lease deal that 'beats the market' like you're looking for will be quirk.... there is no best/cheapest solution for buying a car that applies to all cars at all times in all circumstances.I will acknowledge the Golf R deals from a few years ago were very good. Same is true for the 135i. I rather feel they were a quirk of the car market and interest rates at the time though.
BMW 840…mmmm. I get the maths argument but those big German oddballs are always the most heavily discounted car on Broadspeed etc. Take £10k of the list price as a typical discount and the waters start to muddy a litttle.
Not wanting to lease because you "hate debt" is an odd position. A lease is not a loan or a debt, you are paying for the use of the car for a set period.
I would no more think of a lease as a debt than I would a season train ticket or a monthly gas bill.
It smells of wanting to frame a lease as being a form of debt in order to justify not liking them.
I think that deal in the OP is not particularly great, but there's no fundamental issue with leasing as a model for having a car you wish to use for a set period but have no intention of keeping.
I would no more think of a lease as a debt than I would a season train ticket or a monthly gas bill.
It smells of wanting to frame a lease as being a form of debt in order to justify not liking them.
I think that deal in the OP is not particularly great, but there's no fundamental issue with leasing as a model for having a car you wish to use for a set period but have no intention of keeping.
SonicHedgeHog said:
Does anyone have a less niche alternative?
https://leasing.com/independent-brokers/milease/skoda/kodiaq/L0105780000000143682/Skoda Kodiaq
List price £38560
Similar (2021) car on AT £31750.
Webuyanycar trade in value: £25705
Cost to own for 2 years: £13000
Cost to lease for 2 years: £9000
I regard it as a debt because if my whole world turns upside down it is a bill I cannot avoid. I own my current car and can simply take it off the road at zero cost if absolutely necessary.
I think it’s pretty clear I don’t like leasing. I have tried to word both the title of the thread and the initial post in the least argumentative way to avoid, well…, an argument. I am genuinely prepared to go down the lease route if it makes sense.
The Skoda deal is pretty good. I hired one of those and they’re not bad at all.
I think it’s pretty clear I don’t like leasing. I have tried to word both the title of the thread and the initial post in the least argumentative way to avoid, well…, an argument. I am genuinely prepared to go down the lease route if it makes sense.
The Skoda deal is pretty good. I hired one of those and they’re not bad at all.
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