Right time to switch to Porsche?
Discussion
Hi PH,
Currently owning a '04 BMW Z4, got it for one and a half year now. Overall it's been a great car. However i recently noted a Porsche specialist in my area has a few Boxster 987 cars listed for 'German' prices (I'm based in the Netherlands, Porsche tends to be a bit more expensive here). However the ask prices are still over double the current worth of my Z4, which is roughly the same age. It feels strange to pay 25k for a Boxster 987 while my Z4 is worth 12.5k and when looking at older reviews the cars are listed as competitors. I'm interested because I'm eager to try a Boxster / Cayman out one day for sure because they're still considered the pinnacle of roadster driving.
TL;DR, I'd like to try a more affordable Porsche one day, but i'm not sure it's the right time with Porsche still being so expensive. I'd hate to see market plummet and in a few years a Boxster 987 can be had for the same price as my current Z4.
What are your thoughts?
Currently owning a '04 BMW Z4, got it for one and a half year now. Overall it's been a great car. However i recently noted a Porsche specialist in my area has a few Boxster 987 cars listed for 'German' prices (I'm based in the Netherlands, Porsche tends to be a bit more expensive here). However the ask prices are still over double the current worth of my Z4, which is roughly the same age. It feels strange to pay 25k for a Boxster 987 while my Z4 is worth 12.5k and when looking at older reviews the cars are listed as competitors. I'm interested because I'm eager to try a Boxster / Cayman out one day for sure because they're still considered the pinnacle of roadster driving.
TL;DR, I'd like to try a more affordable Porsche one day, but i'm not sure it's the right time with Porsche still being so expensive. I'd hate to see market plummet and in a few years a Boxster 987 can be had for the same price as my current Z4.
What are your thoughts?
I did what you're proposing. Had an '03 z4 3.0 for 2 years. Sold it for £3k, then bought a 986 boxster s for £6k. Just wanted to dip my toe into mid engined porsches, see if i liked it.
Turns out i do. So this spring, the 986 is going, to be replaced with a 987, for about £10-12k.
Just do it. Values seem strong for boxsters ( and 911s) suspect if you buy sensibly, you could run it for 2 years/10,000 miles and not lose anything on it.
Plus, life is short. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow.
Turns out i do. So this spring, the 986 is going, to be replaced with a 987, for about £10-12k.
Just do it. Values seem strong for boxsters ( and 911s) suspect if you buy sensibly, you could run it for 2 years/10,000 miles and not lose anything on it.
Plus, life is short. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow.
brillomaster said:
I did what you're proposing. Had an '03 z4 3.0 for 2 years. Sold it for £3k, then bought a 986 boxster s for £6k. Just wanted to dip my toe into mid engined porsches, see if i liked it.
Turns out i do. So this spring, the 986 is going, to be replaced with a 987, for about £10-12k.
Just do it. Values seem strong for boxsters ( and 911s) suspect if you buy sensibly, you could run it for 2 years/10,000 miles and not lose anything on it.
Plus, life is short. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow.
Thanks for your reply. Glad to see someone in the same situation. Where I live prices are double or more but the morale of the story is still correct; a 987 is quite a bit more expensive than a Z4 3.0. Good to know you liked the upgrade. Values indeed seem very strong for the Boxster and 911, and as you're upgrading you're probably also betting on not losing money due to value degradation. Turns out i do. So this spring, the 986 is going, to be replaced with a 987, for about £10-12k.
Just do it. Values seem strong for boxsters ( and 911s) suspect if you buy sensibly, you could run it for 2 years/10,000 miles and not lose anything on it.
Plus, life is short. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow.
Which model of the 987 are you aiming for?
plenty said:
The closest competitor to a 987 3.4 is the Z4M, and to a 987 2.9 is the Z4 Si.
An '04 Z4 3.0, assuming you have a 3.0, s not a direct competitor to a 987. It's more equivalent to a 2.5 or 2.7 986.
Thanks for your reply. You are correct, that is also why i'm considering it as an upgrade. Going from a Z4 3.0 (231 hp) to a 986 non-S model is no upgrade for me (apart from the imho crappy interior). By the way; a 986 2.5 i'm beating any day with its 204hp, my Z4 is more than a second quicker on the 0-60. Its roughly on par with the 2.7 model. But i'm not looking for a competitor, because then I'd only get the Porsche for the better handling. Seems a waste to pay a hefty premium just for that. An '04 Z4 3.0, assuming you have a 3.0, s not a direct competitor to a 987. It's more equivalent to a 2.5 or 2.7 986.
The regular 987.2 2.9 is on par with the Z4 3.0 Si (265hp) as you said, which is convenient since that would also be my upgrade if i stayed with the Bavarians. You got any personal experience with this model?
I owned a 2.5 Z4 (E85) a couple of years ago before getting my Porsche Cayman 987 this spring. I never really gelled with the BMW - felt the steering feel wasn’t great, not the sharpest of things to drive, ride quality was pretty poor and it rarely put much of a smile on my face. The cayman is different and better in almost every way - a far better ‘feel’ to the steering, way more engaging and honestly has been easier to live with.
You’ll never justify the upgrade based on comparable costs so I wouldn’t bother. If you’re after a next step, the 987 will be it without doubt.
You’ll never justify the upgrade based on comparable costs so I wouldn’t bother. If you’re after a next step, the 987 will be it without doubt.
mpc007 said:
But i'm not looking for a competitor, because then I'd only get the Porsche for the better handling. Seems a waste to pay a hefty premium just for that.
Of course. I was simply responding to the original statement "It feels strange to pay 25k for a Boxster 987 while my Z4 is worth 12.5k and when looking at older reviews the cars are listed as competitors." The answer is: a 987 isn't a competitor to an '04 E85 whereas a 986 is, and this is reflected in their prices.IMO an E85 Si would be not be much of a change over what you already have.
Mirinjawbro said:
i bought a super high specced 987 2.7 last November. sold it in july and lost 4k (best offer)
If you sell Best Offer then you have to expect to take a bath, unfortunately. A good 987 marketed well and given time to find a buyer should retain most of its value assuming you didn't pay too much to buy it.grumpynuts said:
I swapped 10 years ago from 3.0 Z4 to a 996,what a difference.All the bits of the Z4 I was disapointed with were fixed with the 996.Crap steering, poor brakes,nervous handling nearing the limit,engine sound, all fixed with the swap.Do it, Porsches of all flavours really are amazing.
Surely all of this could have been sorted, apart from the icth to get a Porsche? And quite easily. I would say for way cheaper than moving to the Porsche too. The steering though is an achiles heel with the E85/86. Some swap the M hydraulic in, but aparently is a lot of work and reports say that doesn't really sort it. Bought a base Cayman 987.2 back in the spring and love it. Great fun to drive and one of those cars you always take a look back at as you walk away.
I think I paid significantly over the odds for it though given it's not especially well-specced and I wouldn't like to imagine how much of a loss I'd take on it if I had to get rid of it anytime soon.
I think I paid significantly over the odds for it though given it's not especially well-specced and I wouldn't like to imagine how much of a loss I'd take on it if I had to get rid of it anytime soon.
Thanks for all your replies so far.
Tomorrow I have an appointment for a testdrive with a 2.9 987.2 model, can't wait. Will be my first time driving a Boxster (or any Porsche, for that matter). My biggest doubt overall with the 987 is the exterior look, from the front its great but the side profile and especially the rear are imo not the most pretty. The single center exhaust and the rounded back gives it far a less agressive look than my Z4, and is a bit too feminine for my taste. The Boxster got very pretty with the 981 generation but that's unfortunately well above budget..
Tomorrow I have an appointment for a testdrive with a 2.9 987.2 model, can't wait. Will be my first time driving a Boxster (or any Porsche, for that matter). My biggest doubt overall with the 987 is the exterior look, from the front its great but the side profile and especially the rear are imo not the most pretty. The single center exhaust and the rounded back gives it far a less agressive look than my Z4, and is a bit too feminine for my taste. The Boxster got very pretty with the 981 generation but that's unfortunately well above budget..
tighnamara said:
Mirinjawbro said:
i bought a super high specced 987 2.7 last November. sold it in july and lost 4k (best offer)
i assumed it was depreciation proof. i was very wrong.
it also wasn't overpriced when bought.
To get a clearer picture, what mileage & what did you pay / sell for.i assumed it was depreciation proof. i was very wrong.
it also wasn't overpriced when bought.
So I did the testdrive with the 987.2 2.9 model this afternoon. Balance of the car is really different from the Z4, you feel the weight is between all the wheels, it's a very planted vehicle. Steering and clutch are heavy, but precise. Performance is OK, the sound from the boxer six really nice.
Unfortunately that is also where the positive ended for me, this particular vehicle missed even basic options like seat heating and PDC at the rear. No satnav either, steering adjustment could be better. The interior felt cramped, not undoable but definitely less spacious than an E85 Z4 (im quite tall, at 1.92m). The basic seats are less supportive than the optional M Sport seats in my Z (which are great). The extended leather looked great but there was quite a bit of wear and tear and all too visible due to it being a lighter colour with mileage only 147xxx kilometres. Stationary there was a clear smell of a small oil leakage spilling on the exhaust manifold (i know that smell all too wel from my Z4). Design wise my personal opinion is that the E85 with its long bonnet and short wide edgy tail looks more sporty and masculine than the Boxster.
So yeah, mixed feelings for now. There is no doubt it's a better drivers car which on a circuit leaves the Z4 and it will be a next step experience-wise. But overall as a car that I occasionally daily drive it didn't feel like a vehicle TWICE as expensive as my Z4 3.0i S. I have not made my mind of just yet, but I told the specialist I wanted to see some other examples because this spec was not enough to convince me to fork over the dough.
For reference, here is a link to the testdriven vehicle: https://www.tripleandcrown.nl/auto/porsche-boxster...
Unfortunately that is also where the positive ended for me, this particular vehicle missed even basic options like seat heating and PDC at the rear. No satnav either, steering adjustment could be better. The interior felt cramped, not undoable but definitely less spacious than an E85 Z4 (im quite tall, at 1.92m). The basic seats are less supportive than the optional M Sport seats in my Z (which are great). The extended leather looked great but there was quite a bit of wear and tear and all too visible due to it being a lighter colour with mileage only 147xxx kilometres. Stationary there was a clear smell of a small oil leakage spilling on the exhaust manifold (i know that smell all too wel from my Z4). Design wise my personal opinion is that the E85 with its long bonnet and short wide edgy tail looks more sporty and masculine than the Boxster.
So yeah, mixed feelings for now. There is no doubt it's a better drivers car which on a circuit leaves the Z4 and it will be a next step experience-wise. But overall as a car that I occasionally daily drive it didn't feel like a vehicle TWICE as expensive as my Z4 3.0i S. I have not made my mind of just yet, but I told the specialist I wanted to see some other examples because this spec was not enough to convince me to fork over the dough.
For reference, here is a link to the testdriven vehicle: https://www.tripleandcrown.nl/auto/porsche-boxster...
mpc007 said:
So I did the testdrive with the 987.2 2.9 model this afternoon. Balance of the car is really different from the Z4, you feel the weight is between all the wheels, it's a very planted vehicle. Steering and clutch are heavy, but precise. Performance is OK, the sound from the boxer six really nice.
Unfortunately that is also where the positive ended for me, this particular vehicle missed even basic options like seat heating and PDC at the rear. No satnav either, steering adjustment could be better. The interior felt cramped, not undoable but definitely less spacious than an E85 Z4 (im quite tall, at 1.92m). The basic seats are less supportive than the optional M Sport seats in my Z (which are great). The extended leather looked great but there was quite a bit of wear and tear and all too visible due to it being a lighter colour with mileage only 147xxx kilometres. Stationary there was a clear smell of a small oil leakage spilling on the exhaust manifold (i know that smell all too wel from my Z4). Design wise my personal opinion is that the E85 with its long bonnet and short wide edgy tail looks more sporty and masculine than the Boxster.
So yeah, mixed feelings for now. There is no doubt it's a better drivers car which on a circuit leaves the Z4 and it will be a next step experience-wise. But overall as a car that I occasionally daily drive it didn't feel like a vehicle TWICE as expensive as my Z4 3.0i S. I have not made my mind of just yet, but I told the specialist I wanted to see some other examples because this spec was not enough to convince me to fork over the dough.
For reference, here is a link to the testdriven vehicle: https://www.tripleandcrown.nl/auto/porsche-boxster...
I find Porsches to be grossly overrated. Unfortunately that is also where the positive ended for me, this particular vehicle missed even basic options like seat heating and PDC at the rear. No satnav either, steering adjustment could be better. The interior felt cramped, not undoable but definitely less spacious than an E85 Z4 (im quite tall, at 1.92m). The basic seats are less supportive than the optional M Sport seats in my Z (which are great). The extended leather looked great but there was quite a bit of wear and tear and all too visible due to it being a lighter colour with mileage only 147xxx kilometres. Stationary there was a clear smell of a small oil leakage spilling on the exhaust manifold (i know that smell all too wel from my Z4). Design wise my personal opinion is that the E85 with its long bonnet and short wide edgy tail looks more sporty and masculine than the Boxster.
So yeah, mixed feelings for now. There is no doubt it's a better drivers car which on a circuit leaves the Z4 and it will be a next step experience-wise. But overall as a car that I occasionally daily drive it didn't feel like a vehicle TWICE as expensive as my Z4 3.0i S. I have not made my mind of just yet, but I told the specialist I wanted to see some other examples because this spec was not enough to convince me to fork over the dough.
For reference, here is a link to the testdriven vehicle: https://www.tripleandcrown.nl/auto/porsche-boxster...
Not even talking about the fake VWs dressed as Porsches. But the 911 and Cayman. I think people forgive a lot on them because they are German and because of the name. Some of the reliability issues for example would be blown through the roof if it was an Alfa Romeo or Maserati.
Then there is how they drive. I find the Cayman so boring! Talking about the regular ones. I was never in one of the steroid injected models.
The 911, besides having the engine in the wrong place, even if today they have pushed it towards the correct place as much as they possibly could and still get away with calling it rear engine, and even if the computer nannies let anybody of any skill drive one fast, I just never gelled with it. Dislike the VW styling. The rear seats are useless. The interior leaves me cold and the driving is way overrated from my view.
For the money there are so many more exciting and better looking options IMO. So I never got the appeal.
Shifter1 said:
I find Porsches to be grossly overrated.
Not even talking about the fake VWs dressed as Porsches. But the 911 and Cayman. I think people forgive a lot on them because they are German and because of the name. Some of the reliability issues for example would be blown through the roof if it was an Alfa Romeo or Maserati.
Then there is how they drive. I find the Cayman so boring! Talking about the regular ones. I was never in one of the steroid injected models.
The 911, besides having the engine in the wrong place, even if today they have pushed it towards the correct place as much as they possibly could and still get away with calling it rear engine, and even if the computer nannies let anybody of any skill drive one fast, I just never gelled with it. Dislike the VW styling. The rear seats are useless. The interior leaves me cold and the driving is way overrated from my view.
For the money there are so many more exciting and better looking options IMO. So I never got the appeal.
I bought a 981 brand new in December 2013, I sold it in September 2014 as it was just dull. Not a bad car at all but not exciting. Bought a supercharged Elise - now that is fun! I didn't need a daily so could cope with it's limitations as a normal car but it was leagues ahead in driving experience.Not even talking about the fake VWs dressed as Porsches. But the 911 and Cayman. I think people forgive a lot on them because they are German and because of the name. Some of the reliability issues for example would be blown through the roof if it was an Alfa Romeo or Maserati.
Then there is how they drive. I find the Cayman so boring! Talking about the regular ones. I was never in one of the steroid injected models.
The 911, besides having the engine in the wrong place, even if today they have pushed it towards the correct place as much as they possibly could and still get away with calling it rear engine, and even if the computer nannies let anybody of any skill drive one fast, I just never gelled with it. Dislike the VW styling. The rear seats are useless. The interior leaves me cold and the driving is way overrated from my view.
For the money there are so many more exciting and better looking options IMO. So I never got the appeal.
I recently drove a 987 gen 2 at Thruxton and I'd forgotten how heavy they feel, it was a properly sh@gged example but there's no getting away from the lack of steering feel and how cumbersome it felt.
Edited by Venisonpie on Wednesday 7th December 07:45
Shifter1 said:
For the money there are so many more exciting and better looking options IMO. So I never got the appeal.
Could you name a few? Cars like the E46/E92 M3 cost just as much and then you got a car with high mileage and a uneventful interior.. The E89 Z4 35iS is more expensive and quite heavy. A TT-RS is more expensive, and has Golf underpinnings. A nice Corvette C6 is more expensive. I'm definitely not bound to a Porsche but over the past year a lot of other 'enthousiast' cars in the still relatively affordable part of the second hand market got their price bumped up too..
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