Rejecting vehicle
Discussion
I am unable to find a search option to see if this topic has been raised before. I'm sure I am not the first!
I have a 2017 Land Rover Discovery Sport. I purchased this in Feb 2020 and almost immediately started with problems. There was a leak in the boot which needed repairing twice, faulty electrics. On two occasions the electrics just completely stopped and the vehicle was undriveable. The first time it was within the warranty and I was told they had found a lose wire in the boot and all was resolved. However, the exact same thing happened again, now out of the warranty and Land Rover told me that they could not simply assume it was the same issue and they would require an hourly payment to simply diagnose the problem. After 10 hours, they were still none the wiser but apparently the vehicle just suddenly started to work again.
Now the vehicle just suddenly went in to limp mode and requires a new engine. There seems to be an oil leak somewhere. However, not a single warning light has appeared on the dash and I have kept up to date with full servicing etc.
I am looking to reject the car.
I understand it can be lengthy and not always fruitful.
Has anyone got any advice?
Have you rejected a vehicle?
We bought the vehicle using Land Rover finance, from a Land Rover dealership.
Any stories or advice would be gratefully received!
I have a 2017 Land Rover Discovery Sport. I purchased this in Feb 2020 and almost immediately started with problems. There was a leak in the boot which needed repairing twice, faulty electrics. On two occasions the electrics just completely stopped and the vehicle was undriveable. The first time it was within the warranty and I was told they had found a lose wire in the boot and all was resolved. However, the exact same thing happened again, now out of the warranty and Land Rover told me that they could not simply assume it was the same issue and they would require an hourly payment to simply diagnose the problem. After 10 hours, they were still none the wiser but apparently the vehicle just suddenly started to work again.
Now the vehicle just suddenly went in to limp mode and requires a new engine. There seems to be an oil leak somewhere. However, not a single warning light has appeared on the dash and I have kept up to date with full servicing etc.
I am looking to reject the car.
I understand it can be lengthy and not always fruitful.
Has anyone got any advice?
Have you rejected a vehicle?
We bought the vehicle using Land Rover finance, from a Land Rover dealership.
Any stories or advice would be gratefully received!
I think you'd be hard pressed to reject it on the basis that issues with water in the boot are unrelated to the engine failure.
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/#:~...
Rejecting a car after six months
You are legally entitled to pursue a rejection after the first six months, but the law swings from being in your favour to being in the dealer’s favour.
The onus on you is now to prove that the fault was present when you bought the car, and that is difficult when you have had the car for a reasonable length of time and probably covered thousands of miles in that period.
In practice, this is difficult unless you have some solid proof that the fault was there at time of purchase – which is not easy. Trying to prove that a fault was present at time of purchase rather than occurring the day afterwards is very difficult when you’re several months down the line.
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/#:~...
Rejecting a car after six months
You are legally entitled to pursue a rejection after the first six months, but the law swings from being in your favour to being in the dealer’s favour.
The onus on you is now to prove that the fault was present when you bought the car, and that is difficult when you have had the car for a reasonable length of time and probably covered thousands of miles in that period.
In practice, this is difficult unless you have some solid proof that the fault was there at time of purchase – which is not easy. Trying to prove that a fault was present at time of purchase rather than occurring the day afterwards is very difficult when you’re several months down the line.
It was the current Land Rover specialist that has the vehicle that suggested the link between the leak and damage to electrics.
I completely appreciate it is difficult. We have had a catalogue and little to no help from Land Rover throughout.
As it stand it requires a new engine and exhaust costing around £12,000 for a vehicle worth around £15,000. So we don’t have anything to lose exploring avenue.
It was something we suggested within the first 12 months but with lockdown and a new baby the days just kept rolling by and well, it was magically working again.
It’s the worst thing we’ve ever spent money on.
I completely appreciate it is difficult. We have had a catalogue and little to no help from Land Rover throughout.
As it stand it requires a new engine and exhaust costing around £12,000 for a vehicle worth around £15,000. So we don’t have anything to lose exploring avenue.
It was something we suggested within the first 12 months but with lockdown and a new baby the days just kept rolling by and well, it was magically working again.
It’s the worst thing we’ve ever spent money on.
OP if the car has been repeatedly faulty then it could potentially be said to be unfit for purpose and rejected accordingly.
Any refund in those circumstances would be subject to a deduction for the 2.5 years you've had it.
The dealer is very unlikely to roll over and accept that though.
My view is that if you have a strong record of paperwork to support all the faults then you might well be successful if you were to sue for a partial refund but it's going to be a battle.
Tough situation
Edited to add that I have rejected a vehicle after 15 months but that was primarily a single issue that the dealer repeatedly failed to resolve, so more straightforward than your case.
Any refund in those circumstances would be subject to a deduction for the 2.5 years you've had it.
The dealer is very unlikely to roll over and accept that though.
My view is that if you have a strong record of paperwork to support all the faults then you might well be successful if you were to sue for a partial refund but it's going to be a battle.
Tough situation
Edited to add that I have rejected a vehicle after 15 months but that was primarily a single issue that the dealer repeatedly failed to resolve, so more straightforward than your case.
You definitely need to be more specific about the need for a new engine, if someone said to me 'there is an oil leak somewhere, new engine please' I would be asking for a lot more information. Has the engine internals lunched themselves because it ran out of oil? Maybe I am out of touch but an oil leak shouldn't necessitate an engine change? Am I missing something here?
I think I would get a second opinion about the engine. Can't see that a driving and working engine can go into limp mode and then need to be replaced. I can almost understand if an engine throws a belt or chain it could be more cost effective to replace the engine but then they don't go into limp mode they stop dead.
So it went in to limp mode with no other warning. Then eventually whilst I was crossing everything in the hope it will get home. Very thick grey smoke was coming from exhaust, a loud knocking sound and it said the DPF needed to be cleaned.
It was towed away and on further examination there wasn’t a trace of oil in it despite me topping up 4 weeks previous. They think it’s the turbo. There was more to it. Obviously didn’t want to go in to all the fine details of the problems over the last 2 years.
It was towed away and on further examination there wasn’t a trace of oil in it despite me topping up 4 weeks previous. They think it’s the turbo. There was more to it. Obviously didn’t want to go in to all the fine details of the problems over the last 2 years.
Given the car is 2 1/2 years from when you purchased it, you might find it very difficult to pin that back on the dealer as a fault at point of purchase. I would find out as a first course of action exactly where the oil leak is coming from as it sounds like oil starvation then continued driving of it eventually lunched the engine.
coldel said:
Given the car is 2 1/2 years from when you purchased it, you might find it very difficult to pin that back on the dealer as a fault at point of purchase. I would find out as a first course of action exactly where the oil leak is coming from as it sounds like oil starvation then continued driving of it eventually lunched the engine.
Thank you. I’ll do that bYou have owned the car for two and a half years, unfortunately I think you have got zero chance of rejecting the car or getting the dealer to repair it.
Unfortunately this is the reality of buying a second hand car out of warranty, if any thing goes wrong with it then it is up to you to get it fixed.
Was there any low oil level warning lights on the dash? Sounds to me that it ran low on oil, either it leaked out or it burnt off and running it with no oil in the engine has killed it. The knocking was most likely the big end bearing being starved of oil.
Unfortunately I think the engine is indeed dead.
Unfortunately this is the reality of buying a second hand car out of warranty, if any thing goes wrong with it then it is up to you to get it fixed.
Was there any low oil level warning lights on the dash? Sounds to me that it ran low on oil, either it leaked out or it burnt off and running it with no oil in the engine has killed it. The knocking was most likely the big end bearing being starved of oil.
Unfortunately I think the engine is indeed dead.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 23 August 16:30
The OP is facing costs that can't be too far off what he paid for the thing back in 2020
It has repeatedly gone wrong despite being serviced by JLR and according the schedule.
Clearly (IMV) the car is not of satisfactory quality and I would return the it to the dealer and pursue him for substantial (partial) refund
But of course 'sucking it up' is also an option
I googled and found this OP. Worth reading https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/landrover-disco...
Obviously depends on what actually happened and what failed, you should get all the details. Maybe sign up to that forum and add to the conversation.
Obviously depends on what actually happened and what failed, you should get all the details. Maybe sign up to that forum and add to the conversation.
Canon_Fodder said:
The OP is facing costs that can't be too far off what he paid for the thing back in 2020
It has repeatedly gone wrong despite being serviced by JLR and according the schedule.
Clearly (IMV) the car is not of satisfactory quality and I would return the it to the dealer and pursue him for substantial (partial) refund
But of course 'sucking it up' is also an option
We cannot say is 'clear' that the car is not of satisfactory quality until the OP finds out what exactly caused what looks like the oil starvation. The CRA doesn't have a time limit per say, but after 6 months the burden is 100% on the buyer to prove either that the car was unsatisfactory quality and caused the failure (so would need expert report compiled to show this, which is why the OP needs a proper report with details citing the issue was present at purchase) or demonstrate that the car has the same problem at scale across the range in general. It has repeatedly gone wrong despite being serviced by JLR and according the schedule.
Clearly (IMV) the car is not of satisfactory quality and I would return the it to the dealer and pursue him for substantial (partial) refund
But of course 'sucking it up' is also an option
coldel said:
We cannot say is 'clear' that the car is not of satisfactory quality until the OP finds out what exactly caused what looks like the oil starvation. The CRA doesn't have a time limit per say, but after 6 months the burden is 100% on the buyer to prove either that the car was unsatisfactory quality and caused the failure (so would need expert report compiled to show this, which is why the OP needs a proper report with details citing the issue was present at purchase) or demonstrate that the car has the same problem at scale across the range in general.
Remember the problems (which have been various) started 'almost immediately' after purchase and have continued repeatedly ever since.Does that sound 'satisfactory'? Not to me
Canon_Fodder said:
coldel said:
We cannot say is 'clear' that the car is not of satisfactory quality until the OP finds out what exactly caused what looks like the oil starvation. The CRA doesn't have a time limit per say, but after 6 months the burden is 100% on the buyer to prove either that the car was unsatisfactory quality and caused the failure (so would need expert report compiled to show this, which is why the OP needs a proper report with details citing the issue was present at purchase) or demonstrate that the car has the same problem at scale across the range in general.
Remember the problems (which have been various) started 'almost immediately' after purchase and have continued repeatedly ever since.Does that sound 'satisfactory'? Not to me
If I were in the dealer shoes, they sold a car, it had a leak in the boot and some electrical problems which they tried to address then years later the buyer comes back saying they blew up the engine driving it which it had no oil in it (which based on what is in the thread so far makes the issues completely unrelated) the dealer is very much in their rights to say the problem developed well after purchase, the buyer didn't take good due care and attention looking after it, its their problem.
So as I say, if you are rejecting a car over 6 months after purchase it is up to the buyer to prove that the problem was there at purchase, that is the legal requirement of the CRA otherwise you don't have a leg to stand on. OP needs to go get an official report from a reputable source that states the reason for the engine failure and likely causes. This gives them some chance of apportioning responsibility, the link I found as well showed a number of owners getting joy going direct to JLR.
Canon_Fodder said:
coldel said:
We cannot say is 'clear' that the car is not of satisfactory quality until the OP finds out what exactly caused what looks like the oil starvation. The CRA doesn't have a time limit per say, but after 6 months the burden is 100% on the buyer to prove either that the car was unsatisfactory quality and caused the failure (so would need expert report compiled to show this, which is why the OP needs a proper report with details citing the issue was present at purchase) or demonstrate that the car has the same problem at scale across the range in general.
Remember the problems (which have been various) started 'almost immediately' after purchase and have continued repeatedly ever since.Does that sound 'satisfactory'? Not to me
OP said:
I purchased this in Feb 2020............There was a leak in the boot which needed repairing twice, faulty electrics. On two occasions the electrics just completely stopped and the vehicle was undriveable
So, in 2.5 years, we are talking about a water leak in the boot that required two attempts to fix and two electrical faults.Tough to reject the car IMO
If the car doesn't work then it's unfit for purpose.
The snag the OP has is that because of the amounts involved it's too much for a small claims case and the dealer and JLR will know that that simple remedy is unavailable to the OP.
I have to say that running one of these without some sort of warranty safety net in place seems unwise, but I suppose another way of looking at it, if you've never bought an extended warranty on a car, is how much you've saved over the years. Maybe enough to buy a new engine.
The snag the OP has is that because of the amounts involved it's too much for a small claims case and the dealer and JLR will know that that simple remedy is unavailable to the OP.
I have to say that running one of these without some sort of warranty safety net in place seems unwise, but I suppose another way of looking at it, if you've never bought an extended warranty on a car, is how much you've saved over the years. Maybe enough to buy a new engine.
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