Used car consumer rights when bought from dealer
Discussion
Hi PHers,
I know there's a lot of info on the web already on this topic, but was looking for first hand experiences and maybe advice on what next steps are available.
Background; I bought a 2007 Mercedes E320 CDI with 110k miles in February 2022 from a local used car dealer.
Within 12 hours of taking the Merc home, it went into limp home mode and had a check engine light (CEL). I used an OBD2 reader and the torque App on my phone and got the following codes: P2015 and P2a00. I phoned the dealer as well and had the car booked in for repair.
The car then worked well, but again went into limp mode on the 29th March, this time with code P0087. This was fixed again, however another P0087 fault appeared on the 22nd April.
On that occasion, the car was checked by a different dealer, a "diesel specialist" who checked the fuel pump and injectors and reportedly found everything was fine. Also the fuel filter was changed. Basically no work was done to remedy the P0087 fault codes, just inestigations.
Since then, the fault code P0087 has come back three more times (13th July, 21st July and 24th July). The last three times I cleared the code but it keeps coming back, so clearly there is an issue.
The supplying dealer says the 3 month warranty is expired, and won't help. I posit that the original issue identified under the warranty period was not fixed.
Should I push for a repair from them, or accept that I bought an old car from an unreliable brand and take it to a Merc specialist?
I know there's a lot of info on the web already on this topic, but was looking for first hand experiences and maybe advice on what next steps are available.
Background; I bought a 2007 Mercedes E320 CDI with 110k miles in February 2022 from a local used car dealer.
Within 12 hours of taking the Merc home, it went into limp home mode and had a check engine light (CEL). I used an OBD2 reader and the torque App on my phone and got the following codes: P2015 and P2a00. I phoned the dealer as well and had the car booked in for repair.
The car then worked well, but again went into limp mode on the 29th March, this time with code P0087. This was fixed again, however another P0087 fault appeared on the 22nd April.
On that occasion, the car was checked by a different dealer, a "diesel specialist" who checked the fuel pump and injectors and reportedly found everything was fine. Also the fuel filter was changed. Basically no work was done to remedy the P0087 fault codes, just inestigations.
Since then, the fault code P0087 has come back three more times (13th July, 21st July and 24th July). The last three times I cleared the code but it keeps coming back, so clearly there is an issue.
The supplying dealer says the 3 month warranty is expired, and won't help. I posit that the original issue identified under the warranty period was not fixed.
Should I push for a repair from them, or accept that I bought an old car from an unreliable brand and take it to a Merc specialist?
They are liable for 6 months, and given the fault was there from almost the beginning its fairly easy to prove the fault is existing.
However what you entitled and what they pay for are two very different things. You cannot get money very easilly out of someone who doesn't want to pay.
However what you entitled and what they pay for are two very different things. You cannot get money very easilly out of someone who doesn't want to pay.
In summary, a 15 year old car has gone into limp home mode 6 times in 5 months. I assume when you cycle the ignition it runs normally again?
My view is that a minor intermittent fault on a 15 year old car is par for the course and it's the customer's responsibility.
The code indicates low fuel rail pressure. Most common causes are injectors leaking off excessively, fuel pump/flow issue, or the rail pressure sensor is faulty.
If a leak off test was OK and it's had a new fuel filter, I'd probably get the fuel rail pressure sensor replaced - the sensors are usually sub £50 and easy to replace. If it persists after this, either put up with it or sell the car.
My view is that a minor intermittent fault on a 15 year old car is par for the course and it's the customer's responsibility.
The code indicates low fuel rail pressure. Most common causes are injectors leaking off excessively, fuel pump/flow issue, or the rail pressure sensor is faulty.
If a leak off test was OK and it's had a new fuel filter, I'd probably get the fuel rail pressure sensor replaced - the sensors are usually sub £50 and easy to replace. If it persists after this, either put up with it or sell the car.
quinny100 said:
I
My view is that a minor intermittent fault on a 15 year old car is par for the course and it's the customer's responsibility.
Ignore this bMy view is that a minor intermittent fault on a 15 year old car is par for the course and it's the customer's responsibility.
ks!There are loads of websites that explain your rights but this is The Motor Ombudsman and is about as good as it gets.
https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/w...
OP the legislation on this is called the Consumer Rights Act 2015
Lots of good summaries of that - Autotrader do one, as do Which.
You seem to be within your rights to reject the car for a refund (less a small deduction for usage) as repeated attempts to repair it within the first 6 months have failed.
Sadly in this cased that may prove tricky as the dealer sounds a bit wide.
Lots of good summaries of that - Autotrader do one, as do Which.
You seem to be within your rights to reject the car for a refund (less a small deduction for usage) as repeated attempts to repair it within the first 6 months have failed.
Sadly in this cased that may prove tricky as the dealer sounds a bit wide.
Canon_Fodder said:
OP the legislation on this is called the Consumer Rights Act 2015
Lots of good summaries of that - Autotrader do one, as do Which.
You seem to be within your rights to reject the car for a refund (less a small deduction for usage) as repeated attempts to repair it within the first 6 months have failed.
Sadly in this cased that may prove tricky as the dealer sounds a bit wide.
Sadly this may well be true.Lots of good summaries of that - Autotrader do one, as do Which.
You seem to be within your rights to reject the car for a refund (less a small deduction for usage) as repeated attempts to repair it within the first 6 months have failed.
Sadly in this cased that may prove tricky as the dealer sounds a bit wide.
Not every dealer plays by the rules which leaves you with small claims court. That can take time and even if you win there is no guarantee they will pay up which leaves you appointing court bailiffs to get what you're due.
Codswallop said:
Hi PHers,
I know there's a lot of info on the web already on this topic, but was looking for first hand experiences and maybe advice on what next steps are available.
Background; I bought a 2007 Mercedes E320 CDI with 110k miles in February 2022 from a local used car dealer.
Within 12 hours of taking the Merc home, it went into limp home mode and had a check engine light (CEL). I used an OBD2 reader and the torque App on my phone and got the following codes: P2015 and P2a00. I phoned the dealer as well and had the car booked in for repair.
The car then worked well, but again went into limp mode on the 29th March, this time with code P0087. This was fixed again, however another P0087 fault appeared on the 22nd April.
On that occasion, the car was checked by a different dealer, a "diesel specialist" who checked the fuel pump and injectors and reportedly found everything was fine. Also the fuel filter was changed. Basically no work was done to remedy the P0087 fault codes, just inestigations.
Since then, the fault code P0087 has come back three more times (13th July, 21st July and 24th July). The last three times I cleared the code but it keeps coming back, so clearly there is an issue.
The supplying dealer says the 3 month warranty is expired, and won't help. I posit that the original issue identified under the warranty period was not fixed.
Should I push for a repair from them, or accept that I bought an old car from an unreliable brand and take it to a Merc specialist?
One of the more common reasons for a a car to throw up fault code P0087 is a blocked fuel filter, so your assumption ( my bold) is untrue. I know there's a lot of info on the web already on this topic, but was looking for first hand experiences and maybe advice on what next steps are available.
Background; I bought a 2007 Mercedes E320 CDI with 110k miles in February 2022 from a local used car dealer.
Within 12 hours of taking the Merc home, it went into limp home mode and had a check engine light (CEL). I used an OBD2 reader and the torque App on my phone and got the following codes: P2015 and P2a00. I phoned the dealer as well and had the car booked in for repair.
The car then worked well, but again went into limp mode on the 29th March, this time with code P0087. This was fixed again, however another P0087 fault appeared on the 22nd April.
On that occasion, the car was checked by a different dealer, a "diesel specialist" who checked the fuel pump and injectors and reportedly found everything was fine. Also the fuel filter was changed. Basically no work was done to remedy the P0087 fault codes, just inestigations.
Since then, the fault code P0087 has come back three more times (13th July, 21st July and 24th July). The last three times I cleared the code but it keeps coming back, so clearly there is an issue.
The supplying dealer says the 3 month warranty is expired, and won't help. I posit that the original issue identified under the warranty period was not fixed.
Should I push for a repair from them, or accept that I bought an old car from an unreliable brand and take it to a Merc specialist?
It appears that changing the filter cured the problem for 4 months, so that diagnosis may have been correct. If I was attempting a diagnosis, I’d take off the new filter and back flush it to see how much crap is in it, just to eliminate fuel/ fuel tank contamination from the equation.
A car (or indeed any product) has to be to "a standard a reasonable person would expect."
Find two people and ask them what they think a 15 year old 6 cylinder diesel Merc should be like and you'll probably get two very different answers.
The car is clearly near the end of its life and no doubt worth a small fraction of its original cost so that will count against what are reasonable expectations.
Find two people and ask them what they think a 15 year old 6 cylinder diesel Merc should be like and you'll probably get two very different answers.
The car is clearly near the end of its life and no doubt worth a small fraction of its original cost so that will count against what are reasonable expectations.
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