Advice needed - buying a (new) hybrid to save money
Discussion
So I’m 10 months into a 48 month PCP on an Audi Q5 Sportback 45 TFSI Sport. The PCP is £475 per month. I’m spending about £100 per week on petrol.
The car is worth £36k and the settlement figure is £36k. We have no cash deposit, but may be able to get one if we sold the car privately for a couple of grand more than we owe on it.
We are a one car family and drive roughly 18k miles per year.
We have been EV shopping and they are prohibitively expensive - even EVs which are too small and/or a budget brand. They also have a lead time of 1 year.
However, we’ve been to Mazda and they have a new car coming out. The CX-60 plug in hybrid. Which is big enough for our needs and which we think we would be happy with (subject to test drive).
We have been quoted:
12k miles per annum (we actually do 18k).
£200 deposit
£633 (standard paint) or £648 (metallic paint) per month x 48 months
If we can get £2k more for our Audi, that drops the price to £591 or £606 respectively.
On the face of it that’s more than the £475 per month we pay now. But we are sick of forking out £100 per week for petrol. The 275 horsepower Audi is a gas guzzler.
The Mazda has an electric power range of, we’re told, 37 miles, which might mean on lots of days we could avoid using any petrol at all. We could get a home charger installed and top it up when required. I WFH so it’s only used during the week by my wife for nursery and the shops, and at weekends for family days out. The 18k miles pa we do is an accumulation of frequent short(ish) journeys rather than from long motorway slogs.
The lead time is just 3 months. We are keen to get out of the gas guzzling Q5. Would getting the Mazda realistically save us any money?
The car is worth £36k and the settlement figure is £36k. We have no cash deposit, but may be able to get one if we sold the car privately for a couple of grand more than we owe on it.
We are a one car family and drive roughly 18k miles per year.
We have been EV shopping and they are prohibitively expensive - even EVs which are too small and/or a budget brand. They also have a lead time of 1 year.
However, we’ve been to Mazda and they have a new car coming out. The CX-60 plug in hybrid. Which is big enough for our needs and which we think we would be happy with (subject to test drive).
We have been quoted:
12k miles per annum (we actually do 18k).
£200 deposit
£633 (standard paint) or £648 (metallic paint) per month x 48 months
If we can get £2k more for our Audi, that drops the price to £591 or £606 respectively.
On the face of it that’s more than the £475 per month we pay now. But we are sick of forking out £100 per week for petrol. The 275 horsepower Audi is a gas guzzler.
The Mazda has an electric power range of, we’re told, 37 miles, which might mean on lots of days we could avoid using any petrol at all. We could get a home charger installed and top it up when required. I WFH so it’s only used during the week by my wife for nursery and the shops, and at weekends for family days out. The 18k miles pa we do is an accumulation of frequent short(ish) journeys rather than from long motorway slogs.
The lead time is just 3 months. We are keen to get out of the gas guzzling Q5. Would getting the Mazda realistically save us any money?
The one thing to be certain of is that you won’t see 37 miles out of it. Our Passat GTE can supposedly manage 32, but the absolute best I’ve managed on a mild dry day with the climate control switched off is 28 miles. Likewise the “courtesy” BMW X1 xDrive25e I had for 6 months could apparently do 36, but the most I ever managed in ideal conditions was 32. With A/C or heating on, in the cold and wet, this could plummet to low 20s for the Passat and mid 20s for the X1. My long-term average for the X1 was 3.4mi/kwh.
Not the end of the world for the usage we were doing at the time, the Passat has only been filled up with fuel less than 10 times in the 18 months we’ve owned it (school runs and pottering around town), and the X1 was used for a 16 mile each way commute (but could be charged for free at work, so no range anxiety).
I’ve since switched to a Model 3, and will probably end up getting another BEV for the wife to replace the Passat, just as soon as it’s financially viable to do so.
Not the end of the world for the usage we were doing at the time, the Passat has only been filled up with fuel less than 10 times in the 18 months we’ve owned it (school runs and pottering around town), and the X1 was used for a 16 mile each way commute (but could be charged for free at work, so no range anxiety).
I’ve since switched to a Model 3, and will probably end up getting another BEV for the wife to replace the Passat, just as soon as it’s financially viable to do so.
Hmm, interesting one.
If you don't get a home charger it definitely won't work. The Mazda is a little bigger than the Audi and likely a bit heavier with the battery and motor, so I doubt you'd save money that way.
If you do charge at home, and plug it in every time you get home, then it may work if enough of your journeys are < 30 miles round trip.
Currently you pay £475 PCP + £400 petrol per month.
You might cut the fuel cost in half; electricity isn't free either, and some trips it'll be firing up the engine. So you might be at £648 PCP + £200 petrol + electricity a month. Which would be pretty much the same total cost.
The other thing you'd need to do is get a quote for the excess mileage or for a PCP with a higher mileage.
FWIW it looks like your car should be saleable for a bit more than £36k, although this doesn't actually change the cost of the new PCP really, you're just putting a bit more in up front and a bit less per month.
Bottom line; with the higher monthlies it seems unlikely that you're going to make a significant saving in your overall monthly costs. However if you can make the hybrid work for you, and if you want the Mazda, then you could potentially switch for more or less the same total outgoings.
If you don't get a home charger it definitely won't work. The Mazda is a little bigger than the Audi and likely a bit heavier with the battery and motor, so I doubt you'd save money that way.
If you do charge at home, and plug it in every time you get home, then it may work if enough of your journeys are < 30 miles round trip.
Currently you pay £475 PCP + £400 petrol per month.
You might cut the fuel cost in half; electricity isn't free either, and some trips it'll be firing up the engine. So you might be at £648 PCP + £200 petrol + electricity a month. Which would be pretty much the same total cost.
The other thing you'd need to do is get a quote for the excess mileage or for a PCP with a higher mileage.
FWIW it looks like your car should be saleable for a bit more than £36k, although this doesn't actually change the cost of the new PCP really, you're just putting a bit more in up front and a bit less per month.
Bottom line; with the higher monthlies it seems unlikely that you're going to make a significant saving in your overall monthly costs. However if you can make the hybrid work for you, and if you want the Mazda, then you could potentially switch for more or less the same total outgoings.
At best you'll save £200 a month if you're lucky, also I have to say if you're doing 18k a year a diesel would make more sense & even with the 4p difference in fuel you'll be better off.
Or look for a diesel hybrid SUV as you'll get the best of both worlds.
Kia Sportage:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206096...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205266...
Hyundai Tucson:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202252...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204144...
X3:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205105...
Or look for a diesel hybrid SUV as you'll get the best of both worlds.
Kia Sportage:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206096...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205266...
Hyundai Tucson:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202252...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204144...
X3:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205105...
So is the idea that you can run a PHEV as an EV without ever dipping into the petrol tank by routinely charging it back up after short journeys unrealistic? Will the petrol engine likely be kicking in whenever you drive at 70mph? Is it going to be a bit of a hassle regularly charging it up just to get your ‘37’ miles of cheaper propulsion?
AudiMan9000 said:
So is the idea that you can run a PHEV as an EV without ever dipping into the petrol tank by routinely charging it back up after short journeys unrealistic? Will the petrol engine likely be kicking in whenever you drive at 70mph? Is it going to be a bit of a hassle regularly charging it up just to get your ‘37’ miles of cheaper propulsion?
Ok, best case, assume you run it as an EV and never engage the petrol engine.The battery capacity is 17.8kWh. Electricity is 28p per kWh, so that's £5 to charge the battery.
If you get the full 37 miles to a charge, you will need to charge 40 times a month to cover your 1500 monthly miles (= 18k miles a year / 12 months). 40 charges x £5 each = £200 in electricity a month.
Add that to the £648 PCP monthly charge, that makes £848, almost exactly the same as your current costs.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mazda/cx-60
And the above is best case. By the time you add in the electricity prices going up again in October, the fact you probably won't quite get 37 miles to a charge, the charging won't be 100% efficient, and that some journeys will be longer or you won't have had time to charge, and you'd have to budget to spend a bit more than that.
AudiMan9000 said:
So is the idea that you can run a PHEV as an EV without ever dipping into the petrol tank by routinely charging it back up after short journeys unrealistic? Will the petrol engine likely be kicking in whenever you drive at 70mph? Is it going to be a bit of a hassle regularly charging it up just to get your ‘37’ miles of cheaper propulsion?
It’s not unrealistic assuming you only drive for notably less than the unrealistic maximum range, and you have enough time between drives to top up. Our Passat takes around 4hrs to charge from empty to full. The wife tends to charge it in the middle of the day on busy days (maybe twice a week). Over the last 3 weeks it’s not used the petrol engine once.Mostly though it gets charged overnight on the 7.5p rate.
Have you thought about simply buying a much cheaper second hand car next time round instead? Not the same but probably similar space wise I've just bought a 2017 top spec Pano roof, massage seats etc, Citroen C4 Grand Picasso for £14,500. That's less than 3 years of your payments and will have plenty of value still left despite being a Citroen!
It’s a car forum, so - OP - we should all be just as keen as you to examine and re-examine what car we have, how to pay for it, whether it suits our whims etc. No-one should be giving you a hard time for that. 
However, while I haven’t checked your posting history I do recall several car-changing threads from you. I do wonder whether you should just buy and stick with one boring car for the family, then allow a budget for a second car that you can fuss about and change as you fancy? Many of us here do it that way.
I know that’s not strictly answering the original question. But in one example you might get, say, a loan for
£25k to buy an £18k Mk7 Golf or something similar for family duties and a £7k Mk5 Golf GTI. In that way, you’d have a main car and an older one that you could swap regularly without being caned on depreciation.
Based on your posts, it sounds like you are comfortable with monthly budgeting. The above suggestion would come with similar initial monthly costs, but over time you would build a lot more equity than on these new car PCP deals you’re already in or considering.
However, while I haven’t checked your posting history I do recall several car-changing threads from you. I do wonder whether you should just buy and stick with one boring car for the family, then allow a budget for a second car that you can fuss about and change as you fancy? Many of us here do it that way.
I know that’s not strictly answering the original question. But in one example you might get, say, a loan for
£25k to buy an £18k Mk7 Golf or something similar for family duties and a £7k Mk5 Golf GTI. In that way, you’d have a main car and an older one that you could swap regularly without being caned on depreciation.
Based on your posts, it sounds like you are comfortable with monthly budgeting. The above suggestion would come with similar initial monthly costs, but over time you would build a lot more equity than on these new car PCP deals you’re already in or considering.
edc said:
Have you thought about simply buying a much cheaper second hand car next time round instead? Not the same but probably similar space wise I've just bought a 2017 top spec Pano roof, massage seats etc, Citroen C4 Grand Picasso for £14,500. That's less than 3 years of your payments and will have plenty of value still left despite being a Citroen!
My immediate thought exactly, OP's approach seems rather perculiar to 'save money'. ZX10R NIN said:
Just remembered the OP only likes new cars & won't consider used.
Can buy approved used and still have warranty and extend it. If it must be new then clearly new and shiny is a bigger priority than actually saving money or getting value. Personally I've had 2 leases back to back but didn't get another as the value just wasn't there.
edc said:
Can buy approved used and still have warranty and extend it.
If it must be new then clearly new and shiny is a bigger priority than actually saving money or getting value. Personally I've had 2 leases back to back but didn't get another as the value just wasn't there.
I would agree but the OP won't have it, it has to be brand new.If it must be new then clearly new and shiny is a bigger priority than actually saving money or getting value. Personally I've had 2 leases back to back but didn't get another as the value just wasn't there.
The Cardinal said:
It’s a car forum, so - OP - we should all be just as keen as you to examine and re-examine what car we have, how to pay for it, whether it suits our whims etc. No-one should be giving you a hard time for that.
However, while I haven’t checked your posting history I do recall several car-changing threads from you. I do wonder whether you should just buy and stick with one boring car for the family, then allow a budget for a second car that you can fuss about and change as you fancy? Many of us here do it that way.
I know that’s not strictly answering the original question. But in one example you might get, say, a loan for
£25k to buy an £18k Mk7 Golf or something similar for family duties and a £7k Mk5 Golf GTI. In that way, you’d have a main car and an older one that you could swap regularly without being caned on depreciation.
Based on your posts, it sounds like you are comfortable with monthly budgeting. The above suggestion would come with similar initial monthly costs, but over time you would build a lot more equity than on these new car PCP deals you’re already in or considering.
Thank you for your kind sentiments. There are people with a keen memory or an inclination to trawl post history, and consequently I do get some stick from time to time. I accept my car purchasing decisions to date have been questionable. Certainly swapping my old Q3 for the new Q3 which sat on the drive. I don’t think the Q5 was a mistake per se, as that was consolidating our two cars into one family car. I think what we didn’t anticipate was the effect of two peoples mileage accumulating on one thirsty car, and of course we couldn’t have anticipated the cost of fuel crisis.However, while I haven’t checked your posting history I do recall several car-changing threads from you. I do wonder whether you should just buy and stick with one boring car for the family, then allow a budget for a second car that you can fuss about and change as you fancy? Many of us here do it that way.
I know that’s not strictly answering the original question. But in one example you might get, say, a loan for
£25k to buy an £18k Mk7 Golf or something similar for family duties and a £7k Mk5 Golf GTI. In that way, you’d have a main car and an older one that you could swap regularly without being caned on depreciation.
Based on your posts, it sounds like you are comfortable with monthly budgeting. The above suggestion would come with similar initial monthly costs, but over time you would build a lot more equity than on these new car PCP deals you’re already in or considering.
It might sound silly spending money to save money, but that’s what the very convincing Mazda salesman would have us believe was the way forward. The sage advice given in this thread has really killed off the hybrid idea for me. I think it’s a case of keep this through to the end of the PCP and getting a cheaper car next time like a Kuga or Tucson, or maybe an EV if they’re made more affordable.
In the meantime reduce journeys and drive more efficiently.
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