Help needed: CLS Shooting Brake - future classic?
Discussion
Ok, so I am totally out of my depth and prolly having a mid-life crisis.
A woman in my mid-fifties basically making the *family* car purchasing decisions.
Just coming out of a 3 year lease on a Mazda CX5 (petrol - believe the reviews that say they are underpowered - they are).
Have 2 *kids* aged 20 and 18.
My head says buy a cheap car to let them practice driving in. The oldest has already failed one test. OH says they need to make it on their own.
I have been obsessed with Mercedes-Benz since I was a teenager. I persuaded my Dad on this matter years ago and he has owned a C, E, G and A class over the years. In the end he got fed up with their customer service, but he wasn't buying new so I think he wouldn't have been a customer taking priority. Nonetheless, I have read here and elsewhere about Mercedes slightly rubbish customer service for used cars which leads me to my point.
I LOVE the CLS Shooting Brake. I have adored this car from a distance for years. Now the used cars are drifting into my price range and I am thinking I would love to own one. (Bear in mind I sing the words to 'O Lord won't you buy me...' behind the wheel!) but I don't know what to do. I am a bit wary of diesel for environmental reasons, but tbf the emissions (unless 3L) are comparable with many other vehicles and my mileage is limited to an 80 motorway mile commute twice a week.
If I were to buy one, what should I look for in terms of model? In the back of my mind I am thinking this is a (lowish mileage) car to take care of for life and in 20 years I'll be down the sea front where I live in a classic car show... I could kick my Dad for getting rid of his G Wagon but tbh it was a horrible colour.
Someone, please drop some truth on me quick because I could make an expensive mistake! I've owned BMW, VW and Honda in the past and one I thing I know about my needs is that the car has to have kerb appeal. The Mazda spec internally is brilliant, I can't fault it but the driving fun is zero.
Finally - I am lined up to do 160 miles minimum commute a week in 80 mile motorway bursts daily. Is this enough for a diesel engine? The petrol versions are like needles in a haystack. I will sacrifice beauty for reliability in some ways (the Honda Civic nearly killed me once with its stupid fancy neither flesh nor foul gearbox). and I don't want to burn the planet any more than I have to. If money was no object I'd be doing something electric.
Thank you for reading if you made it this far!
A woman in my mid-fifties basically making the *family* car purchasing decisions.
Just coming out of a 3 year lease on a Mazda CX5 (petrol - believe the reviews that say they are underpowered - they are).
Have 2 *kids* aged 20 and 18.
My head says buy a cheap car to let them practice driving in. The oldest has already failed one test. OH says they need to make it on their own.
I have been obsessed with Mercedes-Benz since I was a teenager. I persuaded my Dad on this matter years ago and he has owned a C, E, G and A class over the years. In the end he got fed up with their customer service, but he wasn't buying new so I think he wouldn't have been a customer taking priority. Nonetheless, I have read here and elsewhere about Mercedes slightly rubbish customer service for used cars which leads me to my point.
I LOVE the CLS Shooting Brake. I have adored this car from a distance for years. Now the used cars are drifting into my price range and I am thinking I would love to own one. (Bear in mind I sing the words to 'O Lord won't you buy me...' behind the wheel!) but I don't know what to do. I am a bit wary of diesel for environmental reasons, but tbf the emissions (unless 3L) are comparable with many other vehicles and my mileage is limited to an 80 motorway mile commute twice a week.
If I were to buy one, what should I look for in terms of model? In the back of my mind I am thinking this is a (lowish mileage) car to take care of for life and in 20 years I'll be down the sea front where I live in a classic car show... I could kick my Dad for getting rid of his G Wagon but tbh it was a horrible colour.
Someone, please drop some truth on me quick because I could make an expensive mistake! I've owned BMW, VW and Honda in the past and one I thing I know about my needs is that the car has to have kerb appeal. The Mazda spec internally is brilliant, I can't fault it but the driving fun is zero.
Finally - I am lined up to do 160 miles minimum commute a week in 80 mile motorway bursts daily. Is this enough for a diesel engine? The petrol versions are like needles in a haystack. I will sacrifice beauty for reliability in some ways (the Honda Civic nearly killed me once with its stupid fancy neither flesh nor foul gearbox). and I don't want to burn the planet any more than I have to. If money was no object I'd be doing something electric.
Thank you for reading if you made it this far!
ConnectionError said:
I had a 2016 CLS 350d shooting brake
A wonderful car, couldn't fault it
+1A wonderful car, couldn't fault it
Unlikely you'll find a petrol CLS SB, unless you go for the mighty 63 V8.
The 350 diesel 3L V6 was ideal for weekly drags up to Newcastle and back. For your needs though, the 2L may suffice.
Facelift (2014 on) with Euro 6 / adblue if you want to avoid excessive congestion charges in some cities.
You want comand, memory pack, sunroof (basically premium plus package) with airmatic a nice to have.
Try and avoid a black interior, as it can make it a bit claustrophobic.
Usual things to look for, DPF, wear to transmission and running gear.
I think the shape is a classic already, and partly regret chopping mine in..
Regbuser said:
+1
Unlikely you'll find a petrol CLS SB, unless you go for the mighty 63 V8.
The 350 diesel 3L V6 was ideal for weekly drags up to Newcastle and back. For your needs though, the 2L may suffice.
Facelift (2014 on) with Euro 6 / adblue if you want to avoid excessive congestion charges in some cities.
You want comand, memory pack, sunroof (basically premium plus package) with airmatic a nice to have.
Try and avoid a black interior, as it can make it a bit claustrophobic.
Usual things to look for, DPF, wear to transmission and running gear.
I think the shape is a classic already, and partly regret chopping mine in..
Thank you that's very helpful. Unlikely you'll find a petrol CLS SB, unless you go for the mighty 63 V8.
The 350 diesel 3L V6 was ideal for weekly drags up to Newcastle and back. For your needs though, the 2L may suffice.
Facelift (2014 on) with Euro 6 / adblue if you want to avoid excessive congestion charges in some cities.
You want comand, memory pack, sunroof (basically premium plus package) with airmatic a nice to have.
Try and avoid a black interior, as it can make it a bit claustrophobic.
Usual things to look for, DPF, wear to transmission and running gear.
I think the shape is a classic already, and partly regret chopping mine in..
Regbuser said:
The 350 diesel 3L V6 was ideal for weekly drags up to Newcastle and back. For your needs though, the 2L may suffice.
I'd say don't do it unless you can stretch to 6 cylinders or more.I had the 220 diesel shooting brake and it's the wrong engine for that car. It was without doubt the most striking car I've ever owned and got many admiring looks and comments, but the 4 pot diesel ruined the ownership experience and ultimately I got rid of it as driving it never matched up to looking at it!
ETA the 220 will be 'fine' for motorway journeys - a lovely comfortable car, but you will not derive any enjoyment from the sound or performance of the engine and for that reason I can't see that specific car being a future classic.
Edited by yellowbentines on Wednesday 25th May 16:33
If I were in the market for one I'd look at the below. 100% agreed on petrol (diesels are wretched things), and these two are more likely to be future classics given the larger engines (lets face it, no one wants an I6 Mustang do they).
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110208...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111270...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110208...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111270...
Get yourself a nice CLS350cdi, it may not become a future classic but it'll be a great car for what you need now.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205065...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205135...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205065...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205135...
I do like a well-depreciated Merc wagon
An 80 mile motorway drive every week will be enough to keep a DPF clear, no worries there (unless there's something else wrong with it). I have a sense there are a few other reliability concerns with Merc diesels of this age, but I'm not familiar with the specifics (something about NOx sensor in the exhaust corroding due to condensation collecting in the pipe?). But in general terms that usage should be fine for a diesel.
I personally doubt any CLS of this gen is a future classic in the sense of being worth lots of money in the future. However, if you just want something that you'll find enjoyable and satisfying for long term ownership, then it could work out. To some extent if you personally still like it in 10-20 years time, it doesn't matter what others think.
If you do want something that'll become a prized classic, I think the first-generation CLS in 55 and 63 forms would be most likely. I like the second-gen shooting brake too, but I think it's further from classic status. Generally out of any model the cars with the top-spec engines are most likely to be prized I think - a V8 is a classic Mercedes engine layout (but thirsty).
In terms of emissions it's important to distinguish between CO2 and NOx. CO2 emissions are in proportion to fuel consumption; the diesel engines will have a lower fuel consumption and thus lower CO2 emissions than a similar petrol model. However, diesels achieve this efficiency partly by burning hotter, which causes higher NOx emissions. A Euro6 diesel (facelift) with a working AdBlue system should however be able to minimise NOx emissions as well.
CO2 emissions cause global warming, whereas NOx emissions lead to poor urban air quality (people getting athsma). Annual road tax is based on CO2 emissions (and fuel consumption will also be in proportion). So it's worth being clear which you're concerned about.
Your problem is that it's a fairly big heavy car, you want a certain level of performance (unlike your Mazda), and you want a 'nice' car to keep as a future classic. All of these suggest not getting the 220 or 250 diesels, which are a relatively mediocre four-pot.
I think the 'sensible' choice would be the facelift 350 diesel; CO2 emissions are only 15% more than the four-pot, and NOx should be minimal and less relevant on the motorway anyway. Road tax is an extra £15 a year.
There don't seem to be any petrols around other than the top-end CLS63 AMG, which is a good bet for classic status but sounds like it's higher in emissions and running costs than you're looking for.
An 80 mile motorway drive every week will be enough to keep a DPF clear, no worries there (unless there's something else wrong with it). I have a sense there are a few other reliability concerns with Merc diesels of this age, but I'm not familiar with the specifics (something about NOx sensor in the exhaust corroding due to condensation collecting in the pipe?). But in general terms that usage should be fine for a diesel.
I personally doubt any CLS of this gen is a future classic in the sense of being worth lots of money in the future. However, if you just want something that you'll find enjoyable and satisfying for long term ownership, then it could work out. To some extent if you personally still like it in 10-20 years time, it doesn't matter what others think.
If you do want something that'll become a prized classic, I think the first-generation CLS in 55 and 63 forms would be most likely. I like the second-gen shooting brake too, but I think it's further from classic status. Generally out of any model the cars with the top-spec engines are most likely to be prized I think - a V8 is a classic Mercedes engine layout (but thirsty).
In terms of emissions it's important to distinguish between CO2 and NOx. CO2 emissions are in proportion to fuel consumption; the diesel engines will have a lower fuel consumption and thus lower CO2 emissions than a similar petrol model. However, diesels achieve this efficiency partly by burning hotter, which causes higher NOx emissions. A Euro6 diesel (facelift) with a working AdBlue system should however be able to minimise NOx emissions as well.
CO2 emissions cause global warming, whereas NOx emissions lead to poor urban air quality (people getting athsma). Annual road tax is based on CO2 emissions (and fuel consumption will also be in proportion). So it's worth being clear which you're concerned about.
Your problem is that it's a fairly big heavy car, you want a certain level of performance (unlike your Mazda), and you want a 'nice' car to keep as a future classic. All of these suggest not getting the 220 or 250 diesels, which are a relatively mediocre four-pot.
I think the 'sensible' choice would be the facelift 350 diesel; CO2 emissions are only 15% more than the four-pot, and NOx should be minimal and less relevant on the motorway anyway. Road tax is an extra £15 a year.
There don't seem to be any petrols around other than the top-end CLS63 AMG, which is a good bet for classic status but sounds like it's higher in emissions and running costs than you're looking for.
ZX10R NIN said:
Get yourself a nice CLS350cdi, it may not become a future classic but it'll be a great car for what you need now.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205065...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205135...
Pre facelift, non euro 6 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205065...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205135...
This is a facelift example, premium plus >
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204044...
Edited by Regbuser on Wednesday 25th May 19:25
I adore the CLS Shooting Brake myself. What a tasteful beauty.
Sadly not for me, as our Great Dane wouldn´t stop laughing when he sees the boot.
Anyway, such a great car needs a great engine. No 4 cylinder engine, it would spoil the experience completely.
The 350 cdi is a very nice engine, especially if you would do high miles, but it is still a diesel with still the clatter and all the problems (and costs) a diesel brings today.
Go for a lovely petrol (V8). You don´t do that many miles anyway.
It´s your dream car, wait until the right car turns up and be fast, otherwise you will regret.
Good luck and enjoy.
PS: My must haves would be:
Airmatic and Panorama-Roof, Premium Sound System
Black inside, as I think Mercedes doesn´t get the brighter interior colours/combinations right.
Sadly not for me, as our Great Dane wouldn´t stop laughing when he sees the boot.
Anyway, such a great car needs a great engine. No 4 cylinder engine, it would spoil the experience completely.
The 350 cdi is a very nice engine, especially if you would do high miles, but it is still a diesel with still the clatter and all the problems (and costs) a diesel brings today.
Go for a lovely petrol (V8). You don´t do that many miles anyway.
It´s your dream car, wait until the right car turns up and be fast, otherwise you will regret.
Good luck and enjoy.
PS: My must haves would be:
Airmatic and Panorama-Roof, Premium Sound System
Black inside, as I think Mercedes doesn´t get the brighter interior colours/combinations right.
yellowbentines said:
I'd say don't do it unless you can stretch to 6 cylinders or more.
I had the 220 diesel shooting brake and it's the wrong engine for that car. It was without doubt the most striking car I've ever owned and got many admiring looks and comments, but the 4 pot diesel ruined the ownership experience and ultimately I got rid of it as driving it never matched up to looking at it!
ETA the 220 will be 'fine' for motorway journeys - a lovely comfortable car, but you will not derive any enjoyment from the sound or performance of the engine and for that reason I can't see that specific car being a future classic.
Thank you - driving pleasure does matter!I had the 220 diesel shooting brake and it's the wrong engine for that car. It was without doubt the most striking car I've ever owned and got many admiring looks and comments, but the 4 pot diesel ruined the ownership experience and ultimately I got rid of it as driving it never matched up to looking at it!
ETA the 220 will be 'fine' for motorway journeys - a lovely comfortable car, but you will not derive any enjoyment from the sound or performance of the engine and for that reason I can't see that specific car being a future classic.
Edited by yellowbentines on Wednesday 25th May 16:33
Griffithy said:
I adore the CLS Shooting Brake myself. What a tasteful beauty.
Sadly not for me, as our Great Dane wouldn t stop laughing when he sees the boot.
Anyway, such a great car needs a great engine. No 4 cylinder engine, it would spoil the experience completely.
The 350 cdi is a very nice engine, especially if you would do high miles, but it is still a diesel with still the clatter and all the problems (and costs) a diesel brings today.
Go for a lovely petrol (V8). You don t do that many miles anyway.
It s your dream car, wait until the right car turns up and be fast, otherwise you will regret.
Good luck and enjoy.
PS: My must haves would be:
Airmatic and Panorama-Roof, Premium Sound System
Black inside, as I think Mercedes doesn t get the brighter interior colours/combinations right.
Great advice. Thank you everyone. I am going to wait for a petrol one to come up. Interesting the forum split on black/light interior. Mirrors the split in the family - I like the black the OH likes the paler one. Sadly not for me, as our Great Dane wouldn t stop laughing when he sees the boot.
Anyway, such a great car needs a great engine. No 4 cylinder engine, it would spoil the experience completely.
The 350 cdi is a very nice engine, especially if you would do high miles, but it is still a diesel with still the clatter and all the problems (and costs) a diesel brings today.
Go for a lovely petrol (V8). You don t do that many miles anyway.
It s your dream car, wait until the right car turns up and be fast, otherwise you will regret.
Good luck and enjoy.
PS: My must haves would be:
Airmatic and Panorama-Roof, Premium Sound System
Black inside, as I think Mercedes doesn t get the brighter interior colours/combinations right.
I have owned a 2016 350D Shooting Brake for the last 4 years and I love it. Mine is fully loaded as the Premium Plus edition and, as it is a late version Bluemotion diesel, it is frankly one of the cleanest possible internal combustion engines and is fully ULEZ compliant. You certainly will not be contributing to burning the planet in any significant way and I get 40 mpg easily on motorway runs. It also only costs me £35/month in servicing on a Merc main dealer servicing plan which is pretty good I think.
The V6 diesel is pretty good and, with the later 9-speed transmission, is one of those relentless torquey engines that reminds me very much of the driving experience of an old school American V8 (apart for the sound of course). It's really pretty rapid but never fussy. It just gets there and you suddenly realise you are doing way way over the speed limit and wonder how that happened! My Porsche Turbo is much quicker but in that you always know you are going fast because it wants to tell you. The Merc hides it from you so be aware!
Handling is not sports car chuckable but grip is prodigious and being low it corners very flat so you end up wanting to exploit that. Suspension is firm without being super hard and I think it really works for the car. Air suspension on the Shooting Brakes is standard on the rear. Some say that having it on the front as well (was an option) improves it further but I have never felt the need for it and it would just be more to go wrong.
You are never aware of diesel rattle except possibly when just starting up on a cold morning. If you can possibly afford it avoid the smaller 4 cylinder version which is def noisier, less refined and a little underpowered. I have noticed that resale values of the 350 diesel version seem to be holding up quite well. They depreciated massively in their first 2-3 years but they are a niche car with nothing else quite like it so values for good ones seem to be holding up well now and, being a bit niche, they will always have a following.
Things to bear in mind:
I hope that all helps. Go and try one or two because they def feel a bit different but you know you are driving something a bit out of the ordinary.
All the best with your decision
The V6 diesel is pretty good and, with the later 9-speed transmission, is one of those relentless torquey engines that reminds me very much of the driving experience of an old school American V8 (apart for the sound of course). It's really pretty rapid but never fussy. It just gets there and you suddenly realise you are doing way way over the speed limit and wonder how that happened! My Porsche Turbo is much quicker but in that you always know you are going fast because it wants to tell you. The Merc hides it from you so be aware!
Handling is not sports car chuckable but grip is prodigious and being low it corners very flat so you end up wanting to exploit that. Suspension is firm without being super hard and I think it really works for the car. Air suspension on the Shooting Brakes is standard on the rear. Some say that having it on the front as well (was an option) improves it further but I have never felt the need for it and it would just be more to go wrong.
You are never aware of diesel rattle except possibly when just starting up on a cold morning. If you can possibly afford it avoid the smaller 4 cylinder version which is def noisier, less refined and a little underpowered. I have noticed that resale values of the 350 diesel version seem to be holding up quite well. They depreciated massively in their first 2-3 years but they are a niche car with nothing else quite like it so values for good ones seem to be holding up well now and, being a bit niche, they will always have a following.
Things to bear in mind:
- The column mounted gear selector takes some getting used to although eventually it becomes second nature
- It is really low. One friend of mine finds it too low
- Rear visibility is not great. Get one with a rear parking camera. It makes a lot of difference to maneuverability!
- It's a big car - long, low and wide. My wife loves riding in it as it is so comfortable and quiet but refuses to drive it as she is completely intimidated by its size and she can't judge where it ends and fresh air starts!
- One person commented that you should try to avoid black interior. It's a personal taste thing. Most of them are black (with contrasting double white stitching). If you can find an ivory version then good luck but keeping it clean with daily use will be hard. The grey version just feels very cold to me so I think black is most practical and probably most resellable.
- Not sure if it is on all of them but mine has tinted privacy glass in the rear half and that makes the erar seat passengers feel they are permanently sitting in the gloom. Would remove that if I could.
I hope that all helps. Go and try one or two because they def feel a bit different but you know you are driving something a bit out of the ordinary.
All the best with your decision
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