Discussion
I would like to buy a GT type of car. Coupe. Something interesting to look at, interesting engine, somewhat powerful, nice to drive, capable, but also somewhat comfortable and practical. Back seats are a must. Will be used everyday.
I narrowed it down to a RX8 or an A70 (MKIII) Supra Turbo. I know the RX8 has 4 doors and is not a true coupe. But it mimics one and is practical.
It seems on paper their performance are similar. Basically identical 0-100 and comparable top speeds.
But how do their drive compare? I would guess the RX8 despite not being a real sports car drives more like one while the Supra is more of a cruiser?
I guess Supra is more reliable. But I heard the straight six in it is not as reliable as the MKIV.
What are the pros and cons?
The differences and similarities between both cars?
Anybody has driven both or even owned both?
I'm aware they are from different eras. But given finding RWD 3 pedals GTs are not an easy task, I think they are similar enough to be considered against each other.
I have considered a few others but I either don't like the looks enough or they are not RWD or manual. I'm not interested in hot hatches or 4 door saloons.
I narrowed it down to a RX8 or an A70 (MKIII) Supra Turbo. I know the RX8 has 4 doors and is not a true coupe. But it mimics one and is practical.
It seems on paper their performance are similar. Basically identical 0-100 and comparable top speeds.
But how do their drive compare? I would guess the RX8 despite not being a real sports car drives more like one while the Supra is more of a cruiser?
I guess Supra is more reliable. But I heard the straight six in it is not as reliable as the MKIV.
What are the pros and cons?
The differences and similarities between both cars?
Anybody has driven both or even owned both?
I'm aware they are from different eras. But given finding RWD 3 pedals GTs are not an easy task, I think they are similar enough to be considered against each other.
I have considered a few others but I either don't like the looks enough or they are not RWD or manual. I'm not interested in hot hatches or 4 door saloons.
Edited by Mickeym on Monday 31st January 18:37
Aren't these cars at absolute polar ends of the budget spectrum? RX8's are peanuts and always have been, Supras are insanely expensive and totally overpriced if you ask me.
Edit: just got my Supras muddled up - I can't imagine anything that old being cheap to run so you'd have to really want one.
Out of the two I'd go for an RX8 that is either really cheap, leaving budget for a rebuild - or, a bit dearer but has had a recent rebuild. a 350z would be a good choice too but might be above budget.
Edit: just got my Supras muddled up - I can't imagine anything that old being cheap to run so you'd have to really want one.
Out of the two I'd go for an RX8 that is either really cheap, leaving budget for a rebuild - or, a bit dearer but has had a recent rebuild. a 350z would be a good choice too but might be above budget.
Edited by joropug on Monday 31st January 18:42
The RX8 IS a real sports car, the Supra is not, being a GT instead.
Owned a RX8 years ago, it was a brilliant enjoyable car and was totally reliable, however the rotary engine needs using and treating somewhat differently to a normal petrol car to keep reliable and get the best from it.
I've always had a soft spot for the mk3 Supra too, but compared to a RX8, they are so much older and rarer I'd say getting hold of spares will be more challenging. There's plenty of RX8 in breakers yards, very few Supra Mk3, most died and rusted away.
You're right about the engine in the mk3 too. Not as reliable as the mk4, I believe head gasket issues are quite common.
I'd say (weirdly) the RX8 would make the better daily, the Supra being more of a classic now and would benefit from being used and treated as such.
Owned a RX8 years ago, it was a brilliant enjoyable car and was totally reliable, however the rotary engine needs using and treating somewhat differently to a normal petrol car to keep reliable and get the best from it.
I've always had a soft spot for the mk3 Supra too, but compared to a RX8, they are so much older and rarer I'd say getting hold of spares will be more challenging. There's plenty of RX8 in breakers yards, very few Supra Mk3, most died and rusted away.
You're right about the engine in the mk3 too. Not as reliable as the mk4, I believe head gasket issues are quite common.
I'd say (weirdly) the RX8 would make the better daily, the Supra being more of a classic now and would benefit from being used and treated as such.
Based on what you say you want, neither car seems that well-suited. A GT should be comfortable, refined and torquey.
The RX-8 is the opposite, it's an engine that needs revving to deliver the performance. The A70 has the torque, esp if it's turbo, but I don't think such an old car would really be that quiet, comfortable and refined on long trips. Head gaskets are an issue on the 7M-GE and GTE - they were an issue when the cars were new - although I understand they can now be rebuilt reasonably robustly. Rust will be an issue on a car that's lived all or much of its life in the UK. Finding a good well maintained one will be hard, especially as they've been cheap bangers for ages, and a poorly maintained one will be a pain.
With either car I think you need to find a nearby garage with the knowledge and enthusiasm to maintain it well - the RX-8 is more specialist, but the Supra will need patience searching out obsolete parts and fixing stuff.
The A70 Supras I can see are nearly all Autos, and are the thick end of £10k.
This is a turbo manual for £11k https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12811868 seems about the only manual, if it checks out.
Have you considered a Skyline 350GT? There are a few manuals around, it's basically a 350Z 2+2 with the same punchy, reliable engine and competent FR chassis
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-350gt-coupe-skyl...
What's the budget? I suspect PHers could propose some other choices that might be more the 'GT' you're looking for.
The RX-8 is the opposite, it's an engine that needs revving to deliver the performance. The A70 has the torque, esp if it's turbo, but I don't think such an old car would really be that quiet, comfortable and refined on long trips. Head gaskets are an issue on the 7M-GE and GTE - they were an issue when the cars were new - although I understand they can now be rebuilt reasonably robustly. Rust will be an issue on a car that's lived all or much of its life in the UK. Finding a good well maintained one will be hard, especially as they've been cheap bangers for ages, and a poorly maintained one will be a pain.
With either car I think you need to find a nearby garage with the knowledge and enthusiasm to maintain it well - the RX-8 is more specialist, but the Supra will need patience searching out obsolete parts and fixing stuff.
The A70 Supras I can see are nearly all Autos, and are the thick end of £10k.
This is a turbo manual for £11k https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12811868 seems about the only manual, if it checks out.
Have you considered a Skyline 350GT? There are a few manuals around, it's basically a 350Z 2+2 with the same punchy, reliable engine and competent FR chassis
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-350gt-coupe-skyl...
What's the budget? I suspect PHers could propose some other choices that might be more the 'GT' you're looking for.
Edited by samoht on Monday 31st January 19:08
I'd consider the following models for a manual RWD GT:
BMW 135i https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112230...
BMW 330Ci https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12488094
BMW 335i coupe https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201221...
BMW 630i https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111049... or 650i
Nissan Skyline 350GT as above
Nissan 300ZX Z32 (but asking £19k) https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1329911
Monaro https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201030...
BMW 135i https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112230...
BMW 330Ci https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12488094
BMW 335i coupe https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201221...
BMW 630i https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111049... or 650i
Nissan Skyline 350GT as above
Nissan 300ZX Z32 (but asking £19k) https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1329911
Monaro https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201030...
I used to have a manual turbo Supra. Definitely a GT rather than a sports car. NIce and relaxed to drive but not one for pressing on on the backroads. A long and heavy car. Quite different to an RX8 from what I am aware of.
I didn’t have any problems with mine but I am aware of head gasket issues and I suspect syncro issues may have reared their head if i had kept it longer. I did love it though. I am not sure using a 30 plus year old car as a daily would be fair on it. Having said that the RX8’s foibles are well documented so using that as an everyday car suggests a level of bravery!
One other car that springs to mind is the Infinity G37 if you can find a manual. Ticks all the boxes.
I have a 370Z now and I think it makes a great sports GT. The only issue is the lack of rear seats…
I didn’t have any problems with mine but I am aware of head gasket issues and I suspect syncro issues may have reared their head if i had kept it longer. I did love it though. I am not sure using a 30 plus year old car as a daily would be fair on it. Having said that the RX8’s foibles are well documented so using that as an everyday car suggests a level of bravery!
One other car that springs to mind is the Infinity G37 if you can find a manual. Ticks all the boxes.
I have a 370Z now and I think it makes a great sports GT. The only issue is the lack of rear seats…
Thank you for all the replies so far.
Please don't take the GT part too strictly. This was just my way of trying to describe a coupe, with a longer front, shorter rear, sleek and sexy type of body. The luxury and refinement part are not the most important. Although I would still like the cabin to be a nice place to be, and be a little nice. But the RX8 is nice enough there. Some leather, some refinement. But not expecting a Continental GT.
But this also means I'm not really interested in just any 2 door car. Like the BMWs suggested. Apart from maybe the 6 series coupe, which I don't want for other reasons, the other BMWs are not at all what I'm looking for. Not looking for that type of car, like 2 doors BMWs or 2 door Mercedes. More the type of silhouette of the Supra or RX8, which is also similar to a XKR Jag, Aston, Maserati 3200, Ferrari 612, that type of car. Longer front, short rear, greenhouse more pushed backwards. Front on the lower side.
I know the Supra is old and the RX8 is notoriously difficult. But it came down to them exactly because it is not easy to find a car with the above shape, RWD, manual and somewhat affordable.
Budget is around 10K give or take. As close to 10K as possible but could be stretched a bit.
I had considered most of the suggestions above. Ended up with the Supra and RX8 for different reasons.
Please don't take the GT part too strictly. This was just my way of trying to describe a coupe, with a longer front, shorter rear, sleek and sexy type of body. The luxury and refinement part are not the most important. Although I would still like the cabin to be a nice place to be, and be a little nice. But the RX8 is nice enough there. Some leather, some refinement. But not expecting a Continental GT.
But this also means I'm not really interested in just any 2 door car. Like the BMWs suggested. Apart from maybe the 6 series coupe, which I don't want for other reasons, the other BMWs are not at all what I'm looking for. Not looking for that type of car, like 2 doors BMWs or 2 door Mercedes. More the type of silhouette of the Supra or RX8, which is also similar to a XKR Jag, Aston, Maserati 3200, Ferrari 612, that type of car. Longer front, short rear, greenhouse more pushed backwards. Front on the lower side.
I know the Supra is old and the RX8 is notoriously difficult. But it came down to them exactly because it is not easy to find a car with the above shape, RWD, manual and somewhat affordable.
Budget is around 10K give or take. As close to 10K as possible but could be stretched a bit.
I had considered most of the suggestions above. Ended up with the Supra and RX8 for different reasons.
For the record these are the cars I considered alongside the Supra and RX8, even before I set a budget.
Porsche 944 is basically as old as Supra and if I will take a risk maintaining an older car I would rather do it with a Toyota
300ZX is not my type if speaking the 80s one. The 90s I really love the looks. But they are now incredibly overpriced in my opinion. Maybe it's the Lamborghini lights.
But I just don't want to pay that much. I don't think they are worth it. Also rear seats seem basically useless and I heard it's more unreliable than the Supra. The RX8 at least is newer and I heard a much better steer. But according to some, if driven and used properly more reliable than the ZX.
3000GT is AWD or FWD. Heavier than the Supra and seems a lot more things to go wrong.
Skyline 350GT, G35, G37. Something about the styling never appealed to me. Somehow generic or maybe this is not the right word. But not distinct or striking. Just something about it I find very off putting. That with reports of heavy etc kills it for me. At least the Supra is striking. Pop ups!
Genesis coupe is basically the same problem as G35 G37. Styling is so boring.
Alfa Brera is nice looking. But again reports of heavy and lackluster drive, plus the reliability uncertainty, plus engine, plus being either FWD or AWD derived from FWD kills it for me. Again the Supra is better piece of machinery. A arms all around, more serious performer. Brera looks nice but it is basically a big hatch.
Jag XK or XKR I love! Pity is auto only. I know GTs and auto is a good match, which is why I said not to stick too closely to the GT thing. Maybe what I'm looking for is a 4 seats or 2+2 sports coupe?
Things like Monaros, Camaros and Mustangs are just not my cup of tea.
So I guess you can see how I ended up with the MKIII Supra and RX8
Porsche 944 is basically as old as Supra and if I will take a risk maintaining an older car I would rather do it with a Toyota
300ZX is not my type if speaking the 80s one. The 90s I really love the looks. But they are now incredibly overpriced in my opinion. Maybe it's the Lamborghini lights.
But I just don't want to pay that much. I don't think they are worth it. Also rear seats seem basically useless and I heard it's more unreliable than the Supra. The RX8 at least is newer and I heard a much better steer. But according to some, if driven and used properly more reliable than the ZX.3000GT is AWD or FWD. Heavier than the Supra and seems a lot more things to go wrong.
Skyline 350GT, G35, G37. Something about the styling never appealed to me. Somehow generic or maybe this is not the right word. But not distinct or striking. Just something about it I find very off putting. That with reports of heavy etc kills it for me. At least the Supra is striking. Pop ups!
Genesis coupe is basically the same problem as G35 G37. Styling is so boring.
Alfa Brera is nice looking. But again reports of heavy and lackluster drive, plus the reliability uncertainty, plus engine, plus being either FWD or AWD derived from FWD kills it for me. Again the Supra is better piece of machinery. A arms all around, more serious performer. Brera looks nice but it is basically a big hatch.
Jag XK or XKR I love! Pity is auto only. I know GTs and auto is a good match, which is why I said not to stick too closely to the GT thing. Maybe what I'm looking for is a 4 seats or 2+2 sports coupe?
Things like Monaros, Camaros and Mustangs are just not my cup of tea.
So I guess you can see how I ended up with the MKIII Supra and RX8
Edited by Mickeym on Monday 31st January 22:10
Lincsls1 said:
Owned a RX8 years ago, it was a brilliant enjoyable car and was totally reliable, however the rotary engine needs using and treating somewhat differently to a normal petrol car to keep reliable and get the best from it.
Good to hear. How long did you have it? Why did you get rid of it?I know what you mean by treating it differently. This is the part which concerns me. Like not being able to drive the car short distances without flooding it. Somehow off putting to have to rev the nuts out of it before cutting the ignition off in front of my house after having moved it out of the garage for a wash. And the oil mixing. Or having to shell out 500 quid for an oil tank adapter and so on. I would hope the ride, fun and all else would be worth it all this effort.
You might struggle to find a half-decent manual A70 Supra for under £10k.
What about one of these?
Porsche 944 3.0 16v S2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111119...
Chevrolet Corvette C4
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/201811152...
Maserati Coupe 4.2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106224...
Or something vaguely sensible - Nissan 350Z
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201191...
What about one of these?
Porsche 944 3.0 16v S2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111119...
Chevrolet Corvette C4
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/201811152...
Maserati Coupe 4.2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106224...
Or something vaguely sensible - Nissan 350Z
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201191...
georgeyboy12345 said:
You might struggle to find a half-decent manual A70 Supra for under £10k.
What about one of these?
Porsche 944 3.0 16v S2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111119...
Chevrolet Corvette C4
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/201811152...
Maserati Coupe 4.2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106224...
Or something vaguely sensible - Nissan 350Z
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201191...
Thank you for the suggestions. But you are ignoring the need for rear seats. What about one of these?
Porsche 944 3.0 16v S2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111119...
Chevrolet Corvette C4
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/201811152...
Maserati Coupe 4.2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106224...
Or something vaguely sensible - Nissan 350Z
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201191...
I commented on the 944 above.
10K is a base. If I find a really nice A70 turbo manual for a bit more it's fine.
I think an MKIII Supra would be infinitely more reliable and cheap and easier to run than a Maserati?
Mickeym said:
Good to hear. How long did you have it? Why did you get rid of it?
I know what you mean by treating it differently. This is the part which concerns me. Like not being able to drive the car short distances without flooding it. Somehow off putting to have to rev the nuts out of it before cutting the ignition off in front of my house after having moved it out of the garage for a wash. And the oil mixing. Or having to shell out 500 quid for an oil tank adapter and so on. I would hope the ride, fun and all else would be worth it all this effort.
I think I'd had it for a couple of years, the (ex-wife) took it with her when she left me and never returned.I know what you mean by treating it differently. This is the part which concerns me. Like not being able to drive the car short distances without flooding it. Somehow off putting to have to rev the nuts out of it before cutting the ignition off in front of my house after having moved it out of the garage for a wash. And the oil mixing. Or having to shell out 500 quid for an oil tank adapter and so on. I would hope the ride, fun and all else would be worth it all this effort.
Based on what you've said, I'd go with a RX8. I'd opt for a pre April 06 car to avoid the tax hike and I'd buy on condition as seen and tested, not mileage. I'd avoid any rusty ones too.
It was a good steer, did the twisty stuff very well. Not particularly fast though so don't expect to be blowing people away on the straights.
I'd budget for the latest gen starter motor and coil packs along with powerful battery. The early cars had a slower starter and weaker coil packs which made for much poorer starting.
I flooded it only once, when I shifted it a few meters for the window cleaner, turned off, and then shifted it back shortly after. IIRC all you need to do is start it and at least allow the engine revs to settle to normal idle speed before shutting off.
Like I said, it was reliable. But break the rules and it will bite you.
I'd have another for sure.
Mickeym said:
georgeyboy12345 said:
You might struggle to find a half-decent manual A70 Supra for under £10k.
What about one of these?
Porsche 944 3.0 16v S2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111119...
Chevrolet Corvette C4
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/201811152...
Maserati Coupe 4.2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106224...
Or something vaguely sensible - Nissan 350Z
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201191...
Thank you for the suggestions. But you are ignoring the need for rear seats. What about one of these?
Porsche 944 3.0 16v S2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111119...
Chevrolet Corvette C4
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/201811152...
Maserati Coupe 4.2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106224...
Or something vaguely sensible - Nissan 350Z
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201191...
I commented on the 944 above.
10K is a base. If I find a really nice A70 turbo manual for a bit more it's fine.
I think an MKIII Supra would be infinitely more reliable and cheap and easier to run than a Maserati?
Ok I understand, you just want a front-engined, rwd sports coupe 2+2, doesn't have to be a GT. Makes sense.
I think it's worth considering a GT86/BRZ. Newer and more reliable than either, good chassis, fun to drive.
As an outside option you could consider the Nissan 200SX, either S13 or S14 variant. Old, and rusty, but quite well packaged so small and light yet with useful interior space, and the turbo engines have abundant torque, which always makes the handling interesting, albeit nothing like as competent as the GT86 or RX-8. My 180SX was a fun and very useable everyday car.
Lincsls1 said:
I think I'd had it for a couple of years, the (ex-wife) took it with her when she left me and never returned.
Based on what you've said, I'd go with a RX8. I'd opt for a pre April 06 car to avoid the tax hike and I'd buy on condition as seen and tested, not mileage. I'd avoid any rusty ones too.
It was a good steer, did the twisty stuff very well. Not particularly fast though so don't expect to be blowing people away on the straights.
I'd budget for the latest gen starter motor and coil packs along with powerful battery. The early cars had a slower starter and weaker coil packs which made for much poorer starting.
I flooded it only once, when I shifted it a few meters for the window cleaner, turned off, and then shifted it back shortly after. IIRC all you need to do is start it and at least allow the engine revs to settle to normal idle speed before shutting off.
Like I said, it was reliable. But break the rules and it will bite you.
I'd have another for sure.
Thanks. So short drives are not a problem? For example the school run. The school is really near by. About 2-3 min. drive.Based on what you've said, I'd go with a RX8. I'd opt for a pre April 06 car to avoid the tax hike and I'd buy on condition as seen and tested, not mileage. I'd avoid any rusty ones too.
It was a good steer, did the twisty stuff very well. Not particularly fast though so don't expect to be blowing people away on the straights.
I'd budget for the latest gen starter motor and coil packs along with powerful battery. The early cars had a slower starter and weaker coil packs which made for much poorer starting.
I flooded it only once, when I shifted it a few meters for the window cleaner, turned off, and then shifted it back shortly after. IIRC all you need to do is start it and at least allow the engine revs to settle to normal idle speed before shutting off.
Like I said, it was reliable. But break the rules and it will bite you.
I'd have another for sure.
The other thing is that daily driver in this age of home office doesn't mean the same anymore. I have basically no commute to the office. So the car would be used 2 or 3 times a week. Mostly short drives, apart from the weekend drive for fun. I heard RX8s don't like that type of pattern?
As stated, MKIII Supra's are likely expensive now for decent ones. You want a later model (I think 1990 onwards) for the 1JZGTE over the 7M engine. That said, anything JZ is only going nuts money wise, so good luck to you.
1JZGTE is one of the best sounding engines with some light fettling IMO.
1JZGTE is one of the best sounding engines with some light fettling IMO.
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