PCP vs Lease

Author
Discussion

RM84

Original Poster:

4 posts

39 months

Thursday 19th August 2021
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I have been lurking on this forum for 10 years and only recent registered. I own outright a 2009 focus Rs. I am on the only owner of the car and feel I want to keep this to grow in value. I therefore want something equally fun which I won’t be sorry worried about every time I go somewhere. When I bought the focus in 2009 I was fortunate enough to be able to outright purchase the car.
Given a car of similar power now 40k + car outright is no longer viable for me.

For a while I have liked the RS3, and ashamedly admit to having a soft spot for the golf r.

With both cars having new models recently I have been looking at PCP’s and lease prices on both models.
I’m struggling to work a few points out, the golf seem to start around £350. From what I can see the Rs3 has a list price roughly 10k more than the Golf.
Obviously deals for the new shape rs3 aren’t widely available yet. But, the cheapest I could find deals on RSQ3, which is similar forecourt price, is nearly double the golf to lease or pcp. Can anyone explain to a newbie on PCP / Lease, why the car is only 20% more expensive to buy, yet double the cost of a Golf R to lease / PCP

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

268 months

Thursday 19th August 2021
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Probablly anticipated residual values. It's the (discounted new price - value at end of agreement) that governs the lease or PCP cost.

mcg_

1,452 posts

99 months

Thursday 19th August 2021
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rs3 pcp at purchase price £54215.

10k miles. 48 months.

£10k deposit is £560 per month.
£15k depost is £440 per month.

6.2% apr. (ridiculous).

gfv £26.5k.

RoVoFob

1,354 posts

165 months

Friday 20th August 2021
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RM84 said:
I have been lurking on this forum for 10 years and only recent registered. I own outright a 2009 focus Rs. I am on the only owner of the car and feel I want to keep this to grow in value. I therefore want something equally fun which I won’t be sorry worried about every time I go somewhere. When I bought the focus in 2009 I was fortunate enough to be able to outright purchase the car.
Given a car of similar power now 40k + car outright is no longer viable for me.

For a while I have liked the RS3, and ashamedly admit to having a soft spot for the golf r.

With both cars having new models recently I have been looking at PCP’s and lease prices on both models.
I’m struggling to work a few points out, the golf seem to start around £350. From what I can see the Rs3 has a list price roughly 10k more than the Golf.
Obviously deals for the new shape rs3 aren’t widely available yet. But, the cheapest I could find deals on RSQ3, which is similar forecourt price, is nearly double the golf to lease or pcp. Can anyone explain to a newbie on PCP / Lease, why the car is only 20% more expensive to buy, yet double the cost of a Golf R to lease / PCP
When comparing finance and/or leasing costs, it’s important to get like-for-like quotes - eg. Comparing deals with the same finance type, deposit amount, mileage limit and contract length.

The same car can vary in monthly payments dramatically depending upon the contract details, so the first thing to do is make sure you’re assessing cars with the same finance/leasing details when looking at multiple models.

PCP monthly payments effectively cover the difference between a car’s initial price and its predicted value at the end of the contract - minus any deposit and with interest added. Therefore, the predicted residual value has just as big an impact as the upfront price in determining monthly payments.

In theory a £30,000 car that is set to be worth £10,000 at the end of the contract should cost the same per month as a £40,000 car that is set to be worth £20,000, as both lose £20,000 (this is all assuming identical contract details again).

This is how some particularly desirable cars can have the same monthly payments as less desirable cars with a much lower initial price.

D7PNY

382 posts

170 months

Friday 20th August 2021
quotequote all
RoVoFob said:
When comparing finance and/or leasing costs, it’s important to get like-for-like quotes - eg. Comparing deals with the same finance type, deposit amount, mileage limit and contract length.

The same car can vary in monthly payments dramatically depending upon the contract details, so the first thing to do is make sure you’re assessing cars with the same finance/leasing details when looking at multiple models.

PCP monthly payments effectively cover the difference between a car’s initial price and its predicted value at the end of the contract - minus any deposit and with interest added. Therefore, the predicted residual value has just as big an impact as the upfront price in determining monthly payments.

In theory a £30,000 car that is set to be worth £10,000 at the end of the contract should cost the same per month as a £40,000 car that is set to be worth £20,000, as both lose £20,000 (this is all assuming identical contract details again).

This is how some particularly desirable cars can have the same monthly payments as less desirable cars with a much lower initial price.
Worth remembering that in the example you mention above the £40k car will be more per month than the £30k car despite the same loss in value as on the £40k PCP you are borrowing an additional £10k for the duration of the deal.

av185

19,411 posts

134 months

Friday 20th August 2021
quotequote all
RoVoFob said:
When comparing finance and/or leasing costs, it’s important to get like-for-like quotes - eg. Comparing deals with the same finance type, deposit amount, mileage limit and contract length.

The same car can vary in monthly payments dramatically depending upon the contract details, so the first thing to do is make sure you’re assessing cars with the same finance/leasing details when looking at multiple models.

PCP monthly payments effectively cover the difference between a car’s initial price and its predicted value at the end of the contract - minus any deposit and with interest added. Therefore, the predicted residual value has just as big an impact as the upfront price in determining monthly payments.

In theory a £30,000 car that is set to be worth £10,000 at the end of the contract should cost the same per month as a £40,000 car that is set to be worth £20,000, as both lose £20,000 (this is all assuming identical contract details again).

This is how some particularly desirable cars can have the same monthly payments as less desirable cars with a much lower initial price.
Your example is flawed simply because the cost of funding the initial purchase of a higher value car is greater than a lower value one.

RoVoFob

1,354 posts

165 months

Friday 20th August 2021
quotequote all
D7PNY said:
Worth remembering that in the example you mention above the £40k car will be more per month than the £30k car despite the same loss in value as on the £40k PCP you are borrowing an additional £10k for the duration of the deal.
The additional borrowing means that if the interest rate is particularly high there could be a difference in monthly payments due to that, yes. However, the monthly payments are covering the same drop in value, so should otherwise be very similar - especially with a low interest rate or 0% APR.

The optional final payment to buy the car would be higher with the £40k car, too, which is important if you want to own the car outright.

RoVoFob

1,354 posts

165 months

Friday 20th August 2021
quotequote all
av185 said:
Your example is flawed simply because the cost of funding the initial purchase of a higher value car is greater than a lower value one.
Cost of funding generally refers to the cost to the finance provider, not the individual financing the car. Is that what you’re referring to?

If 0% APR is offered (and the same contract terms/deposit contribution etc), customer monthly payments on a PCP deal for that £40k car would be the same as for the £30k one.

Mint FRST

15 posts

171 months

Friday 20th August 2021
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I am in a very similar predicament!

Still have my 09 Focus RS I bout new and in need of a new daily.

I have leased before and looking at similar cars to yourself also. I would not discount a M340i also

Over over under steer

675 posts

130 months

Friday 20th August 2021
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OP, some helpful advice above if you do want to continue down that route. But if you are changing the the two reasons stated:

1) Hoping Focus will appreciate in value.
2) Worried about leaving it places and having it damaged.

I'd suggest the £350/month cost of a lease (plus insurance on top) will far outweigh any appreciation on the Focus and would happily cover and dents and scratches the Focus might get when left at the shops/friends house as part of your daily use.

Of course this is Pistonheads, and more cars is almost always better for the petrolhead, so good luck. I love the RS3, but you'll struggle to get that. I'd look at PCH deals online and search out a good deal. The lease thread on here is great too.

Keep well.

James-gbg1e

385 posts

87 months

Friday 20th August 2021
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Bank loan on a 2/3 year old car with interest rates being so low is still better in your circumstance I think.

lee1610

67 posts

220 months

Friday 20th August 2021
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20k loan over 5 years at 3%, £360 a month, you’ll get a decent golf r with that

silentbrown

9,341 posts

123 months

Friday 20th August 2021
quotequote all
RM84 said:
With both cars having new models recently I have been looking at PCP’s and lease prices on both models.
I’m struggling to work a few points out, the golf seem to start around £350. From what I can see the Rs3 has a list price roughly 10k more than the Golf.
Obviously deals for the new shape rs3 aren’t widely available yet. But, the cheapest I could find deals on RSQ3, which is similar forecourt price, is nearly double the golf to lease or pcp.
RSQ3 OTR price is £56K
Golf R OTR price is £40K

However, there's much larger discounts on the Golf, so the *real* difference is probably more like £53K vs £35K...

James-gbg1e

385 posts

87 months

Saturday 21st August 2021
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
RSQ3 OTR price is £56K
Golf R OTR price is £40K

However, there's much larger discounts on the Golf, so the *real* difference is probably more like £53K vs £35K...
Discount? Would be shocked to see anything other than a tank of fuel in today's market.

Jasey_

5,306 posts

185 months

Saturday 21st August 2021
quotequote all
James-gbg1e said:
silentbrown said:
RSQ3 OTR price is £56K
Golf R OTR price is £40K

However, there's much larger discounts on the Golf, so the *real* difference is probably more like £53K vs £35K...
Discount? Would be shocked to see anything other than a tank of fuel in today's market.
Picked up a brand new FK8 a year ago and manged to get half way to the nearest fuel station before it ran out of fuel.

approx 2 miles!

but I did get a 3.5k discount.

av185

19,411 posts

134 months

Saturday 21st August 2021
quotequote all
James-gbg1e said:
silentbrown said:
RSQ3 OTR price is £56K
Golf R OTR price is £40K

However, there's much larger discounts on the Golf, so the *real* difference is probably more like £53K vs £35K...
Discount? Would be shocked to see anything other than a tank of fuel in today's market.
Yep no discounts atm.

We await a link proving discounts are available but as usual I wouldn't hold your breath.

mcg_

1,452 posts

99 months

Saturday 21st August 2021
quotequote all
lee1610 said:
20k loan over 5 years at 3%, £360 a month, you’ll get a decent golf r with that
lol, you'll be lucky in todays market. my 18 plate is currently £25.5k from wbac.

silentbrown

9,341 posts

123 months

Saturday 21st August 2021
quotequote all
av185 said:
James-gbg1e said:
silentbrown said:
RSQ3 OTR price is £56K
Golf R OTR price is £40K

However, there's much larger discounts on the Golf, so the *real* difference is probably more like £53K vs £35K...
Discount? Would be shocked to see anything other than a tank of fuel in today's market.
Yep no discounts atm.

We await a link proving discounts are available but as usual I wouldn't hold your breath.
Well, nothing's "proved" until you actually place an order, but the usual brokers are still advertising discounted prices.
https://broadspeed.com/new_cars/Audi/RS_Q3/Choose_...
https://www.coast2coastcars.co.uk/car-quote/

Fairly serious "deposit contributions" (AKA discounts) on certain Audi models too (but a mere £500 off an RSQ3). https://www.audi.co.uk/uk/web/en/find-and-buy/fina...


RM84

Original Poster:

4 posts

39 months

Thursday 4th April
quotequote all
Figured I best update this. Somewhat a holy thread revival.

I dithered around too long to bag a factory order on an RS3 at retail and wasn’t going to pay over list for one. I found myself growing more and more interested in the Golf. I spoke to a local dealer about the 20 years edition, a few weeks later I had a call to say they had one in stock and invited me to test drive it. I took them up on the offer, and duly test drove it. Being of the analogue generation I had noted a particular tugging on the wheel on the dual carriageway away from the dealer, which I had put down to the car tramlining, I duly returned unimpressed, ready to walk away. The salesman drew my attention the poxy lane assistance system and more importantly told me how to turn it off. I went back out with all the nanny’s put to bed and found it to be a really decent car. Immediately after I signed on the dotted line and set myself for a long wait.

The car arrived in early Dec and I took delivery a week or so later. The car already comes well spec’d, but from factory I added the Akra exhaust, DCC and larger in car screen being the most notable. I’ve no covered 3,000 miles in it and have found it to be a very good all rounder. I’ve got used to the much hated touch controls, and have found myself landing on the right control while on the move. The ones on the wheel I have caught a couple of times, but only when driving around a turn using my palms.

In terms of driver engagement, it’s damn good. But, still has that numb feeling on motorways etc, I certainly feel my 13 Focus RS has miles better steering feeling and it’s many years more senior. I feel the same could also be said on b roads. The Golf is easy to drive at up to 80%, beyond that I feel lacks to feedback I want as driver to have the confidence push on even further, feels very darty and snappy. I remember when I bought the focus in 2009, it gave me immediate confidence to exploit its full potential in the above mentioned scenarios almost immediately. That said the road conditions thus far have been pretty dire with limited dry days to fully test it properly.

In terms of problem and glitches, none so far. Mine is towards the end of the production run for the 8r and seems to have all the software glitches ironed out. Inside it’s damn lovely and when just pottering around truly brilliant, floating under the radar due to being black. The only real sign of what it is are the blue mirror caps, which are a bizarre design cue.

I do still desire an RS3 and hope to move in to the face lift model, likely at the end of the production run.