£4K: Good steering, comfy ride/seats, punchy 5+ cyl engine?

[RoVoFob]

After a successful recent estate car hunt, I’m now looking for something a little less sensible. I have a manual 2006 V70 2.5T as a practical car post-house move and it’s been perfect, but is a little too wholesome for me now that’s done!

I’m looking for a sub-£4,000 car that offers reasonably precise steering, a smooth ride (doesn’t need to be soft, just well damped), comfy seats, decent speakers (or at least the option of these) and a charismatic, responsive engine that adds to the driving experience (for me that means five cylinders plus, or at least a boxer four...). The Volvo is quick and comfy, but a little too remote and the engine overly quiet for me.

Doesn’t have to be overly sporty, but would like something responsive that offers good punch and a manual gearbox or a quick-to-respond auto, if it’s more of a cruiser. Need four seats, the boot doesn’t have to be huge and I’d value something that is good at dealing with bumpy urban roads, motorway jaunts and twisty A roads in comfort.

I also have a BMW 130i, but would like to use the new car for supermarket trips and less exciting longer journeys. What jumps out to you all?

Thanks everyone.

[Jimbo.]

First thoughts:

Subaru Legacy 3.0 (maybe even Spec B)
BMW 3-Series touring
Mondeo ST 3.0 or later 2.5T (although for under £4K?)
Volvo V70 T5 with a thorough suspension/tyre etc refresh (just throwing that out there!)

[Clivey]

RoVoFob said:

After a successful recent estate car hunt, I’m now looking for something a little less sensible. I have a manual 2006 V70 2.5T as a practical car post-house move and it’s been perfect, but is a little too wholesome for me now that’s done!

I’m looking for a sub-£4,000 car that offers reasonably precise steering, a smooth ride (doesn’t need to be soft, just well damped), comfy seats, decent speakers (or at least the option of these) and a charismatic, responsive engine that adds to the driving experience (for me that means five cylinders plus, or at least a boxer four...). The Volvo is quick and comfy, but a little too remote and the engine overly quiet for me.

Doesn’t have to be overly sporty, but would like something responsive that offers good punch and a manual gearbox or a quick-to-respond auto, if it’s more of a cruiser. Need four seats, the boot doesn’t have to be huge and I’d value something that is good at dealing with bumpy urban roads, motorway jaunts and twisty A roads in comfort.

I also have a BMW 130i, but would like to use the new car for supermarket trips and less exciting longer journeys. What jumps out to you all?

Thanks everyone.

My "shed" S60 had it's back box replaced with a straight section by it's previous owner. It sounds fantastic if I'm being completely honest.

[RoVoFob]

Jimbo. said:

First thoughts:

Subaru Legacy 3.0 (maybe even Spec B)
BMW 3-Series touring
Mondeo ST 3.0 or later 2.5T (although for under £4K?)
Volvo V70 T5 with a thorough suspension/tyre etc refresh (just throwing that out there!)

Thanks. Like your thinking.

I had a Legacy Spec B 18 months back. Fantastic handling, gear change and engine, but steering was a bit overly light and my BMW made it feel low on torque (wonder if those can be addressed...). Great car and still tempting, though. May get another one if the right one comes up.

3 Series Touring appeals, too. Two straight-six RWD BMWs is a bit excessive, though! I feel like should cover a few more petrolhead bases after three N52 3.0-litre engines.

Yes, keep coming back to Mondeo - there are a number of £2,500-£4,000 ones. Don’t like the dash, but in the right spec it’s quite handsome and I imagine both more engaging to drive and well damped than V70. Think it’s pretty much the same engine, too. Have toyed with the Focus ST, as well. Was always well praised for being set up well for bumpy British roads.

Interesting choice! T5s seem to a lot more expensive than 2.5T V70s and we’re talking a 0-62mph time of 6.8 secs/7.1 secs vs 7.4 secs for the 2.5T. I’ve just had four Michelin Pilot Sport 4s fitted to mine. I could spruce up the suspension I suppose - don’t know if standard T5/2.5T setups are different...Food for thought.

[RoVoFob]

Clivey said:

My "shed" S60 had it's back box replaced with a straight section by it's previous owner. It sounds fantastic if I'm being completely honest.

Haha. That is always an option. Would worry about making the V70 unsellable if I did that, though!

[ZX10R NIN]

Leftfield first Vectra VXR these are better than you believe & they have a characterful engine once you put a decent exhaust on one, if there's one close I'd say test drive it.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010315...

A better steer is Mondeo 2.5T like the Vectra above you'll need to put an exhaust on it to hear the sweet 5 pot that you're already used to.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101268...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104291...

3.2 A3

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104251...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104191...

325i Touring

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104231...

[RoVoFob]

ZX10R NIN said:

Leftfield first Vectra VXR these are better than you believe & they have a characterful engine once you put a decent exhaust on one, if there's one close I'd say test drive it.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010315...

A better steer is Mondeo 2.5T like the Vectra above you'll need to put an exhaust on it to hear the sweet 5 pot that you're already used to.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101268...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104291...

3.2 A3

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104251...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104191...

325i Touring

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104231...

Thanks.

Cannot make my mind up on VXR. Don’t like the look and feel of it, or the front-wheel driveyness with 250-odd horsepower (Mondeo has less power and more progressive power delivery, so imagine this is less of an issue). However, I did seriously consider an ex-police 2.8T SRi estate with small wheels and enormous police brakes, which I liked for its subtlety. Think it’s the brashness of the VXR rather than the car underneath that doesn’t appeal.

The Mondeo, meanwhile, is growing on me. Definitely worth a closer look. Estate is another option, as the wagon only weighs 19kg more than hatchback and I imagine the ride/handling is pretty similar.

Like the idea of A3 3.2 V6, but many of them are £600-odd to tax. Madness. Think they have quite a thumpy ride, too from what I’ve read. Did toy with A4 3.2 V6 for Quattro goodness and a nice engine, but they don’t have the best rep for reliability - same as the A3 - and not sure how comfy they are. Love the cabin and general pre-blingy Audi look, though. Might see if I can find a local one...

If cost/reliability weren’t an issue I’d go for an S4 4.2 V8 Avant, but sadly 3.2 V6 doesn’t seem to be that much more reliable/cheaper to run.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the 3 Series Touring makes a lot of sense, but not alongside 130i for me. Decision, decisions...

[Trackdayer]

Would you not consider spending something on your 130i? ie decent suspension and maybe some better ICE?

Saves having to tax/insure/MOT/repair a third car?

Seems like you've already got "sensible" and "fun" covered

[RoVoFob]

Thanks for your comments. Good to see there’s some overlap with my thinking.

There are a few quite random cars on my list that no one has mentioned yet. What’s the OH take on the following?:

• Mercedes CLK 350
• Jaguar X-Type 3.0 V6 AWD saloon/estate
• Jaguar XJ 3.0 V6/3.5 V8/4.2 V8 (X350)
• Lexus GS 450h
• Ford Focus ST 2.5
• Volvo S60 2.0T/2.4T/2.5T/T5

Did also consider 330i E46 (think I’ve written this off now, as I’ve had an E46 325ti before and now a more powerful BMW six-pot). Also thought about an S-Type 4.2 V8, but reliability seems pretty ropey for these, even potentially the newer ones...

[RoVoFob]

Trackdayer said:

Would you not consider spending something on your 130i? ie decent suspension and maybe some better ICE?

Saves having to tax/insure/MOT/repair a third car?

Seems like you've already got "sensible" and "fun" covered

I was lucky enough to find a 130i with the top Harmon Kardon/Logic 7 speakers - or whatever brand they are - and have a set of new suspension waiting to go on, so that side’s covered.

I’ll be selling the V70, so that’s not a consideration. You’re absolutely right - three sets of bills would have been crazy!

[ZX10R NIN]

RoVoFob said:

Thanks for your comments. Good to see there’s some overlap with my thinking.

There are a few quite random cars on my list that no one has mentioned yet. What’s the OH take on the following?:

• Mercedes CLK 350
• Jaguar X-Type 3.0 V6 AWD saloon/estate
• Jaguar XJ 3.0 V6/3.5 V8/4.2 V8 (X350)
• Lexus GS 450h
• Ford Focus ST 2.5
• Volvo S60 2.0T/2.4T/2.5T/T5

Did also consider 330i E46 (think I’ve written this off now, as I’ve had an E46 325ti before and now a more powerful BMW six-pot). Also thought about an S-Type 4.2 V8, but reliability seems pretty ropey for these, even potentially the newer ones...

The CLK 350's are good but they're also £540 road tax & the early ones can suffer balancer shaft issues, now if you go for a CLK 500 they have much less borkage potential & they're a very nice car too.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144010571860?hash=item2...

I'm bias as this would be my pick, the other is the Focus ST which is a great steer it's a bit hard to find a good one at this price point but they are out there.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105032...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103089...

[RoVoFob]

ZX10R NIN said:

The CLK 350's are good but they're also £540 road tax & the early ones can suffer balancer shaft issues, now if you go for a CLK 500 they have much less borkage potential & they're a very nice car too.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144010571860?hash=item2...

I'm bias as this would be my pick, the other is the Focus ST which is a great steer it's a bit hard to find a good one at this price point but they are out there.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105032...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103089...

Thanks for the insights.

Ah, yes. I read about balancer shaft issues in the context of E350s of a similar age. Had hoped this miraculously didn’t affect the CLK. A comfy, quick, V6 pillarless coupe seemed like a nice pairing with the BMW and found what looked like a tidy low-tax CLK 350: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202005049...

Oddly, CLK 500 doesn’t quite appeal as much on paper, being barely any more powerful but heavier and thirstier. Probably a lovely car in reality though. I always thought early-model 2000s Mercedes (like the CLK 500 above) were the ropey ones, with cost cutting and rust only being addressed towards the end of models’ lifecycles, as with the facelift (I think) 2006 CLK 350 above. Any idea if early the car itself was OK aside from the 500 engine being solid? Could be an interesting option...

Yes, ST is pushing the budget a bit, but have found a couple for just over £4K that looked surprisingly decent. Think I’d love driving one, but Mondeo is cheaper and makes more sense really. If the ST is too good it might tread on the toes of the 130i, whereas Mondeo does something a little different... Interesting dilemma to have.

Cheers!

[ZX10R NIN]

RoVoFob said:

Thanks for the insights.

Ah, yes. I read about balancer shaft issues in the context of E350s of a similar age. Had hoped this miraculously didn’t affect the CLK. A comfy, quick, V6 pillarless coupe seemed like a nice pairing with the BMW and found what looked like a tidy low-tax CLK 350: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202005049...

Oddly, CLK 500 doesn’t quite appeal as much on paper, being barely any more powerful but heavier and thirstier. Probably a lovely car in reality though. I always thought early-model 2000s Mercedes (like the CLK 500 above) were the ropey ones, with cost cutting and rust only being addressed towards the end of models’ lifecycles, as with the facelift (I think) 2006 CLK 350 above. Any idea if early the car itself was OK aside from the 500 engine being solid? Could be an interesting option...

Yes, ST is pushing the budget a bit, but have found a couple for just over £4K that looked surprisingly decent. Think I’d love driving one, but Mondeo is cheaper and makes more sense really. If the ST is too good it might tread on the toes of the 130i, whereas Mondeo does something a little different... Interesting dilemma to have.

Cheers!

Here's the thing real world the difference is 3mpg because of the 500's extra torque making it the more effortless car out of it & the 350.

That 500 is a great pick someone has spent money on it as it's well optioned, the front grille is the reason the 500 maybe looks a bit less appealing.

The only place you'll see rust is the front of the rear arches due to being hit by stones & is something to keep on top of on both cars. It's a £200 fix, other things to look for are gearbox fluid & filter changes these should be done every 40k If these haven't been done take of £300 to get it sorted.

That's pretty much it as I said out of your 350 or the 500 I linked to, it would be the 500 less borkage a bit more on fuel but a nicer spec.

[RoVoFob]

ZX10R NIN said:

Here's the thing real world the difference is 3mpg because of the 500's extra torque making it the more effortless car out of it & the 350.

That 500 is a great pick someone has spent money on it as it's well optioned, the front grille is the reason the 500 maybe looks a bit less appealing.

The only place you'll see rust is the front of the rear arches due to being hit by stones & is something to keep on top of on both cars. It's a £200 fix, other things to look for are gearbox fluid & filter changes these should be done every 40k If these haven't been done take of £300 to get it sorted.

That's pretty much it as I said out of your 350 or the 500 I linked to, it would be the 500 less borkage a bit more on fuel but a nicer spec.

I’m not worried about the mpg, just liked the idea of a lighter, similarly powerful version. Have a soft spot for big sixes, but a decent V8 is a lovely thing, too. I could be wrong, but I’m under the impression the 350 has a seven-speed gearbox, compared with the older five-speed box in the 500, which was part of my pro-350 thinking.

Have to keep reminding myself that with a quick wafty car like this, though, having it punch effortlessly through longer gears as with the 500 is probably a bit more fitting. Nine previous owners for that one is a bit worrying. Do like the black on black spec, though. Very nice.

The other 5.0-litre V8 Merc option is the CLS 500, but I imagine these are more problematic and keep telling myself to stay well clear. Pre-06 ones are just as troublesome as early W211 E-Classes, I’d expect. Surprisingly cheap, though: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011075...

Oddly, reliability for the X350 Jaguar XJ has been very well reviewed and they’re good value, too. Enormous at 17cm longer than the CLS, which would make it impractical to park on the drive...

[LightningBlue]

RoVoFob said:

I did seriously consider an ex-police 2.8T SRi estate with small wheels and enormous police brakes, which I liked for its subtlety.

Let me just say never ever would I consider an ex-police car. From everything I’ve experienced these are seriously abused and the interiors generally look like the inside of a garbage bin while in use. Just don’t do it!

As for a replacement car at that budget I think you should stick with the reliable, comfy 5 cylinder Volvo - it misses steering feel but they aren’t so bad to pedal along a back road and is seems to do everything else you want. I think other cars in budget would feel like a downgrade - Volvo to Ford or Vauxhall just wouldn’t feel great.

[RoVoFob]

LightningBlue said:

Let me just say never ever would I consider an ex-police car. From everything I’ve experienced these are seriously abused and the interiors generally look like the inside of a garbage bin while in use. Just don’t do it!

As for a replacement car at that budget I think you should stick with the reliable, comfy 5 cylinder Volvo - it misses steering feel but they aren’t so bad to pedal along a back road and is seems to do everything else you want. I think other cars in budget would feel like a downgrade - Volvo to Ford or Vauxhall just wouldn’t feel great.

I don’t believe the Vectra I was considering was a pursuit car (though it was white and had the big brakes), which is why I even thought about it, but what put me off was thinking about never being able to resell a white, small-wheeled Vectra 2.8 V6 manual!

I have thought about keeping the V70 - it does make a lot of sense - but I fancy something a bit more engaging. I drove an old £1k S60 2.0T a while back and even that felt a bit more analogue as it’s smaller and lighter. The V70 is simply too grown up!

I’m very much aware that the days of interesting cheap petrol cars are numbered, so I want to try as many of them as possible while I still can, as well!

I hear what you’re saying and a Vectra certainly wouldn’t feel anywhere as homely as the Volvo, but several of the other options could - XJ, Lexus GS, CLK or even potentially an S60 with the same great seats and speakers...

[ZX10R NIN]

RoVoFob said:

I’m not worried about the mpg, just liked the idea of a lighter, similarly powerful version. Have a soft spot for big sixes, but a decent V8 is a lovely thing, too. I could be wrong, but I’m under the impression the 350 has a seven-speed gearbox, compared with the older five-speed box in the 500, which was part of my pro-350 thinking.

Have to keep reminding myself that with a quick wafty car like this, though, having it punch effortlessly through longer gears as with the 500 is probably a bit more fitting. Nine previous owners for that one is a bit worrying. Do like the black on black spec, though. Very nice.

The other 5.0-litre V8 Merc option is the CLS 500, but I imagine these are more problematic and keep telling myself to stay well clear. Pre-06 ones are just as troublesome as early W211 E-Classes, I’d expect. Surprisingly cheap, though: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011075...

Oddly, reliability for the X350 Jaguar XJ has been very well reviewed and they’re good value, too. Enormous at 17cm longer than the CLS, which would make it impractical to park on the drive...

I like pillarless coupes so the other two don't get a look in, 9 owners in 19 years seems okay, the 5 speed is fine on the 500 they went to a 7 speed so they could keep the new more torque light engines on the boil.

Although you can get some CLK 500's with the seven speed & 5.0 most came with the very rare 5.5.

[RoVoFob]

ZX10R NIN said:

I like pillarless coupes so the other two don't get a look in, 9 owners in 19 years seems okay, the 5 speed is fine on the 500 they went to a 7 speed so they could keep the new more torque light engines on the boil.

Although you can get some CLK 500's with the seven speed & 5.0 most came with the very rare 5.5.

Cheers. Absolutely. Pillarless coupes are a lovely thing. Another dying breed of car, sadly...

I normally hate long gears where you never get to enjoy working the engine on normal roads. Cayman, I’m looking at you with ridiculous 80mph+ second gear. Would put me off the whole damn car. As I said previously, though, I suppose reasonably long gears suit a V8 auto CLK much better.

Need to get my head around nine owners...I’ve found I’ve had better service from lower-owner cars in the past.

I think what I really want is a V70/S60 interior in a CLK body with XJ suspension and Focus ST steering and gear change. Damn, I’m going backwards!

CLK 500, Mondeo 2.5T and S60 all stand out right now, with a wildcard of the GS450h...

[Objective Alpha]

what abou the volvo c30 T5 if you can get one, really underestimated car

[Belle427]

The Focus ST is worth a look if you can still find a good one.
Not going to be particularly soft on the suspension but a fun car that makes the right noise.
Quite easy to tune if you fancied it too.