Value for money on performance cars in 2nd hand market?
Discussion
Given that many used performance cars are being caught up in the narrative that everything is now a collectible or an investment, and as such every seller is swept along on the high-asking-price-bandwagon (as per the market seemingly is to dictate), does the buyer of such cars these days get anything close to value for money any more?
I ask because I've had over £50k sat in my savings that I was going to be spending on a performance car, something special for weekends and possibly touring holidays. But, the cars that I was looking at a few years ago have now jumped up in to new price brackets because during this 5+ years of asset bubble growing (due to zero interest rates in savings accounts), 2nd hand performance cars on the main have become silly expensive. (Not that £50k in the first place isn't silly enough to be spending on a 'toy'
)
So these days everything that I look at that ticks my boxes is no longer value for money (for me).
And much of the stuff that is still within the £50k price bracket is now well over-priced for what it is and again no longer value for money.
So this makes my put my sensible hat on and turns me away from parting my hard earned on such a thing.
Wondering if others are in the same boat?
Or are people still happy to throw the notion of "value for money" out the window as long as they can get their hands on a garage queen?
I ask because I've had over £50k sat in my savings that I was going to be spending on a performance car, something special for weekends and possibly touring holidays. But, the cars that I was looking at a few years ago have now jumped up in to new price brackets because during this 5+ years of asset bubble growing (due to zero interest rates in savings accounts), 2nd hand performance cars on the main have become silly expensive. (Not that £50k in the first place isn't silly enough to be spending on a 'toy'
)So these days everything that I look at that ticks my boxes is no longer value for money (for me).
And much of the stuff that is still within the £50k price bracket is now well over-priced for what it is and again no longer value for money.
So this makes my put my sensible hat on and turns me away from parting my hard earned on such a thing.
Wondering if others are in the same boat?
Or are people still happy to throw the notion of "value for money" out the window as long as they can get their hands on a garage queen?
so much depends on each person - and how they perceive it...
what do you consider a performance car - are we talking a Ferrari / BMW M car / Golf R / Fiesta ST?
what is value for money for you / others will depend - and it may also depend on what age car you are happy to buy...
you can pick up a Jaguar XJR for not a lot - it provides plenty of performance / £££ - but it has little street cred, is a weird age and who knows what will happen with it's price in the future, it is also not a sports car...
£50k will certainly buy you cars in the Aston / Lotus / BMW M / Alfa / Porsche / etc. families - but it will be your individual view as to whether the performance / price point is right...
I have an e39 M5 - the price on that is going up - it has cost me very little to run over 4 years and 40,000 miles - they are fairly reliable cars which have been run for over 200,000 miles, and the price is considerably below your budget - similarly you could buy a 911 etc. I am not seeing those going for silly prices outside the rarer models... so I think that £50k still buys you lots of car for your money if you choose carefully...
I would also question why you are sitting waiting - are you wanting prices to go down? they might, they might not - who knows, in the meantime the money is devaluing and you could be spending that time enjoying a car - my view, don't over-think it, enjoy it
what do you consider a performance car - are we talking a Ferrari / BMW M car / Golf R / Fiesta ST?
what is value for money for you / others will depend - and it may also depend on what age car you are happy to buy...
you can pick up a Jaguar XJR for not a lot - it provides plenty of performance / £££ - but it has little street cred, is a weird age and who knows what will happen with it's price in the future, it is also not a sports car...
£50k will certainly buy you cars in the Aston / Lotus / BMW M / Alfa / Porsche / etc. families - but it will be your individual view as to whether the performance / price point is right...
I have an e39 M5 - the price on that is going up - it has cost me very little to run over 4 years and 40,000 miles - they are fairly reliable cars which have been run for over 200,000 miles, and the price is considerably below your budget - similarly you could buy a 911 etc. I am not seeing those going for silly prices outside the rarer models... so I think that £50k still buys you lots of car for your money if you choose carefully...
I would also question why you are sitting waiting - are you wanting prices to go down? they might, they might not - who knows, in the meantime the money is devaluing and you could be spending that time enjoying a car - my view, don't over-think it, enjoy it
alpine a110 could be a good call with the rave reviews and the production cancelled early, the odds of them making another varient before ICE cars are banned are 0
52k gets you in a demo
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104071...
52k gets you in a demo
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104071...
BMW 1M prices seem mega stable (OK it's a limited number built but I expected the M2 to result in a big drop in prices but it just hasn't)
Low mileage examples are still be advertised for sale at near original list prices and they are 10 years old
I even like the Valencia Orange (or whatever it's called)
Low mileage examples are still be advertised for sale at near original list prices and they are 10 years old
I even like the Valencia Orange (or whatever it's called)
late cayman GTS are in budget, this fetching orange one
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105052...
i would find the extra 20k and get this manual NA 4ltr python green GTS /drool
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105042...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105052...
i would find the extra 20k and get this manual NA 4ltr python green GTS /drool
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105042...
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Thursday 6th May 15:55
GroundZero said:
Given that many used performance cars are being caught up in the narrative that everything is now a collectible or an investment, and as such every seller is swept along on the high-asking-price-bandwagon (as per the market seemingly is to dictate), does the buyer of such cars these days get anything close to value for money any more?
I ask because I've had over £50k sat in my savings that I was going to be spending on a performance car, something special for weekends and possibly touring holidays. But, the cars that I was looking at a few years ago have now jumped up in to new price brackets because during this 5+ years of asset bubble growing (due to zero interest rates in savings accounts), 2nd hand performance cars on the main have become silly expensive.
I am not sure I really agree with that initial assessment of the market although I don't know what cars you were looking at.I ask because I've had over £50k sat in my savings that I was going to be spending on a performance car, something special for weekends and possibly touring holidays. But, the cars that I was looking at a few years ago have now jumped up in to new price brackets because during this 5+ years of asset bubble growing (due to zero interest rates in savings accounts), 2nd hand performance cars on the main have become silly expensive.
I bought a low mileage AUC 17 manual M2 just over a year ago for £29k and I think this is excellent value for money and down from £47k 5 years ago. It certainly isn't a garage queen.
Having said that, they've gone up since then so you're not totally wrong.
The problem with not buying is that you might have missed the boat, particularly if the cars you were targeting have gone up.
Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 6th May 16:03
Lots you could buy for £50K
From exotic Italian -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011136...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010094...
British
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006019...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104231...
Classic German -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/201910223...
To Modern German -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105012...
To super saloon -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103140...
To wafting luxury -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103069...
Dont sit on it, if you want to spend it on something special, go ahead. Ultimately you don't have a measure of how long your money will be there or more to the point how long you will be. Enjoy it if you want to enjoy it. Don't worry about the market, it will do its own thing regardless of you making a decision to buy or not and will continue to do so once you've bought.
Just make sure you buy something that ticks your boxes and enjoy it and forget about what everyone else is doing at that point. Just my honest opinion.
Good luck.
From exotic Italian -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011136...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010094...
British
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006019...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104231...
Classic German -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/201910223...
To Modern German -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105012...
To super saloon -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103140...
To wafting luxury -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103069...
Dont sit on it, if you want to spend it on something special, go ahead. Ultimately you don't have a measure of how long your money will be there or more to the point how long you will be. Enjoy it if you want to enjoy it. Don't worry about the market, it will do its own thing regardless of you making a decision to buy or not and will continue to do so once you've bought.
Just make sure you buy something that ticks your boxes and enjoy it and forget about what everyone else is doing at that point. Just my honest opinion.
Good luck.
From recent experience of buying one car and looking around for two others at different price points, I'd say prices are up generally and that decent cars are selling quickly.
The big picture is that there are fewer new cars feeding into the national pool. It's worth bearing in mind that 500,000 fewer cars were registered in 2020 than 2019, in addition to declines in the years since 2016 or so. Brand new cars have long lead times due to ongoing supply chain disruptions, such as the chip shortage.
Demand in some segments might be down due to working from home, de-fleeting business users etc - but there are also demand increases in other areas like performance models, leisure vehicles etc.
Overall, I think these issues reinforce prices in the medium term.
The big picture is that there are fewer new cars feeding into the national pool. It's worth bearing in mind that 500,000 fewer cars were registered in 2020 than 2019, in addition to declines in the years since 2016 or so. Brand new cars have long lead times due to ongoing supply chain disruptions, such as the chip shortage.
Demand in some segments might be down due to working from home, de-fleeting business users etc - but there are also demand increases in other areas like performance models, leisure vehicles etc.
Overall, I think these issues reinforce prices in the medium term.
Some good replies to this , cheers.
The root issue is, when it comes to parting with significant amounts of cash, I simply don't buy things unless I see them as value for money. I've never been a one for following the sheep and doing something just because others are doing it.
I have a passion for driving performance cars but that passion is subdued if I were to not see value for money in it. Instead I am looking to spend that money elsewhere where I can deem there to be value for money.
So the money that I would have put towards a performance car will likely now be put towards additional holidays and activities along with improving the house, etc.
So its not like the money is wasting away due to inflation, nor that its a case that I'm not able to spend it if I'm 6ft under. The money will be spent but only on things I deem to be value for money.
Its true that some of you have mentioned "what is value for money"... and it is of course a subjective thing for the individual, but for me although I have a passion for driving I do have other passions in life for which my money can go towards. I guess I'm just an example of someone who doesn't see much value for money in the asking prices of many performance cars these days, considering the mileage, condition, running costs, known reliability issues, maintenance etc. that has to be taken in to account after you've accepted the inflated selling price.
The root issue is, when it comes to parting with significant amounts of cash, I simply don't buy things unless I see them as value for money. I've never been a one for following the sheep and doing something just because others are doing it.
I have a passion for driving performance cars but that passion is subdued if I were to not see value for money in it. Instead I am looking to spend that money elsewhere where I can deem there to be value for money.
So the money that I would have put towards a performance car will likely now be put towards additional holidays and activities along with improving the house, etc.
So its not like the money is wasting away due to inflation, nor that its a case that I'm not able to spend it if I'm 6ft under. The money will be spent but only on things I deem to be value for money.
Its true that some of you have mentioned "what is value for money"... and it is of course a subjective thing for the individual, but for me although I have a passion for driving I do have other passions in life for which my money can go towards. I guess I'm just an example of someone who doesn't see much value for money in the asking prices of many performance cars these days, considering the mileage, condition, running costs, known reliability issues, maintenance etc. that has to be taken in to account after you've accepted the inflated selling price.
IMO to view "value for money" in terms of purchase price alone is missing the bigger picture.
Value for money for me is calculated based on total cost of ownership. If you have £50k in the bank then you have some capital to work with so it becomes primarily a function of depreciation and running costs.
I understand the concept of intrinsic value and something being "overpriced for what is". But the overpriced car can actually be better value for money than the cheaper one.
Last year I was in the market for a Megane mk2. I ended up buying a mint, low-mileage R26.R rather than an R26 for a third of the price. You could make a case that an R26.R is "overpriced" at £20k compared with an R26 at £6k. However the £20k R26.R being much fresher than a £6k R26 will cost me less to maintain, plus there is a reasonable chance it will will hold its value or maybe even appreciate.
Value for money for me is calculated based on total cost of ownership. If you have £50k in the bank then you have some capital to work with so it becomes primarily a function of depreciation and running costs.
I understand the concept of intrinsic value and something being "overpriced for what is". But the overpriced car can actually be better value for money than the cheaper one.
Last year I was in the market for a Megane mk2. I ended up buying a mint, low-mileage R26.R rather than an R26 for a third of the price. You could make a case that an R26.R is "overpriced" at £20k compared with an R26 at £6k. However the £20k R26.R being much fresher than a £6k R26 will cost me less to maintain, plus there is a reasonable chance it will will hold its value or maybe even appreciate.
GroundZero said:
I guess I'm just an example of someone who doesn't see much value for money in the asking prices of many performance cars these days, considering the mileage, condition, running costs, known reliability issues, maintenance etc. that has to be taken in to account after you've accepted the inflated selling price.
I don't understand why you focus on the many performance cars that you perceive as poor value and not focus on the other ones. It seems that you're conflating what's happened to prices over the past 18 months to what's happened before that. We have (had) some of the cheapest second hand cars in Europe.
£35k for a 550bhp F-Type R doesn't sound like silly money to me.
IMO life's too short to avoid buying the car you want because you pine for the days when prices were lower. Of course, it still pains me to think that I passed on the opportunity to buy a 996 RS for £27k and a 964RS for £29k.
The baseline has shifted upwards and shows no sign of correcting itself, but there are still plenty of performance bargains and possible future classics on this thread.
IMO life's too short to avoid buying the car you want because you pine for the days when prices were lower. Of course, it still pains me to think that I passed on the opportunity to buy a 996 RS for £27k and a 964RS for £29k.
The baseline has shifted upwards and shows no sign of correcting itself, but there are still plenty of performance bargains and possible future classics on this thread.
GroundZero said:
Some good replies to this , cheers.
The root issue is, when it comes to parting with significant amounts of cash, I simply don't buy things unless I see them as value for money. I've never been a one for following the sheep and doing something just because others are doing it.
I have a passion for driving performance cars but that passion is subdued if I were to not see value for money in it. Instead I am looking to spend that money elsewhere where I can deem there to be value for money.
So the money that I would have put towards a performance car will likely now be put towards additional holidays and activities along with improving the house, etc.
So its not like the money is wasting away due to inflation, nor that its a case that I'm not able to spend it if I'm 6ft under. The money will be spent but only on things I deem to be value for money.
Its true that some of you have mentioned "what is value for money"... and it is of course a subjective thing for the individual, but for me although I have a passion for driving I do have other passions in life for which my money can go towards. I guess I'm just an example of someone who doesn't see much value for money in the asking prices of many performance cars these days, considering the mileage, condition, running costs, known reliability issues, maintenance etc. that has to be taken in to account after you've accepted the inflated selling price.
The market obviously dictates value so if you see a car selling for what you think is an 'inflated' price it is simply because others place a higher value on it than you. Maybe your 'passion' is not quite as strong as you claim. The person buying the 45k 991 Carrera S puts a higher value on it than you, and is happier than you to get a new conservatory instead or an extension of whatever.The root issue is, when it comes to parting with significant amounts of cash, I simply don't buy things unless I see them as value for money. I've never been a one for following the sheep and doing something just because others are doing it.
I have a passion for driving performance cars but that passion is subdued if I were to not see value for money in it. Instead I am looking to spend that money elsewhere where I can deem there to be value for money.
So the money that I would have put towards a performance car will likely now be put towards additional holidays and activities along with improving the house, etc.
So its not like the money is wasting away due to inflation, nor that its a case that I'm not able to spend it if I'm 6ft under. The money will be spent but only on things I deem to be value for money.
Its true that some of you have mentioned "what is value for money"... and it is of course a subjective thing for the individual, but for me although I have a passion for driving I do have other passions in life for which my money can go towards. I guess I'm just an example of someone who doesn't see much value for money in the asking prices of many performance cars these days, considering the mileage, condition, running costs, known reliability issues, maintenance etc. that has to be taken in to account after you've accepted the inflated selling price.
It would probably help if you defined what you thought was a performance car. I personally see value in several price brackets like the original small engined Cayman, the Maserati Granturismo Sport, the Ferrari FF, early Alfa Guilia QFs, well-maintained DB9s. XJRs and Flying Spurs if you want a performance barge.
The reality is that used car prices move a bit but don't move that much (acknowledging they have risen a little recently due to cover supply/demand). So you can change your mind and buy in any time. However you can look at websites like housepricecrash.co.uk where folk have been saying for 25 years they don't see value in the housing market and the consequences for them renting for a quarter of a century are far more dire!
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