That time you took the Brave Pill...how did it go?

[MikeyMike]

I am the eternal ditherer when it comes to cars. I’ve always struggled to move on and take the plunge with something else. I’ve flirted with 3dr Cosworths, Esprit Turbos/S4s and Skylines in the past but always found a reason not to pull the trigger “too expensive”, “gearbox is weak”, “4WD transmission losses are too great” etc etc. Honestly, it’s ridiculous.
Just over 10 years ago I was looking at a moonstone blue 3dr Cossie that was up for £6.5k. I was put off by the fact it had a rusty battery tray Sometimes I look back and despair. Almost everything I once hankered after is now far out of my reach financially. The one car I keep coming back to that hasn’t gone crazy price wise is the e60 M5. Now if ever there was a car that I really should talk myself out of buying it is this! But I can’t escape the notion that I must take a punt or i will end up adding it to the list of the ones that got away.

I want to hear your examples of taking a leap of faith on a car that all conventional wisdom told you to run from. Did it go well or were all the horror stories well founded?

[mintmansam]

Apologises this isn’t exactly what you asked, but similar. I once looked at a Lancia Delta Intergrale , around the same time Wheeler Dealers bought one. I didn’t buy as insurance for me was £300 more than a Fiesta ST.

Anyway this lockdown I was offered a motorcycle (I know it’s not a car) 1991 ZXR750K RR, they seem to sell for £8-12k in good condition, this was available for a very cheap price. I knew it needed a full strip. But it’s been a great experience building it. It’s pushed me to think outside the box, I’ve engaged with so many more people, I’ve tackled jobs I thought I wouldn’t.

My general rule of thumb is anything can be fixed so go for it. If it’s rusted and fixed you know you’ve fixed then. Better the devil you know.

What would 17/18 year old you do, probably buy, make a few mistakes, enjoy it and look back fondly on the journey. Personally I’ve got too serious, too much worrying and I’m determined to make a few mistakes and enjoy things.

Obviously I’m not saying plunge your entire family into crippling debt, but be prepared to spend a bit and enjoy. If not now then when are you going start treating yourself.

Edited by mintmansam on Monday 15th February 10:16

[QuattroDave]

MikeyMike said:

I am the eternal ditherer when it comes to cars. I’ve always struggled to move on and take the plunge with something else. I’ve flirted with 3dr Cosworths, Esprit Turbos/S4s and Skylines in the past but always found a reason not to pull the trigger “too expensive”, “gearbox is weak”, “4WD transmission losses are too great” etc etc. Honestly, it’s ridiculous.
Just over 10 years ago I was looking at a moonstone blue 3dr Cossie that was up for £6.5k. I was put off by the fact it had a rusty battery tray Sometimes I look back and despair. Almost everything I once hankered after is now far out of my reach financially. The one car I keep coming back to that hasn’t gone crazy price wise is the e60 M5. Now if ever there was a car that I really should talk myself out of buying it is this! But I can’t escape the notion that I must take a punt or i will end up adding it to the list of the ones that got away.

I want to hear your examples of taking a leap of faith on a car that all conventional wisdom told you to run from. Did it go well or were all the horror stories well founded?

Not as risky as the E60 M5 but a direct competitor. About 5 years ago, shortly after my wifes father in law died two weeks after being given a late stage throat cancer diagnosis my wife and I had a f&%k it moment and I took out a large loan to buy my hero car - a C6 RS6 avant in Mugello blue, tuned to 700bhp. It already had the sump plug sorted (engine out job) and had a comprehensive history of very very expensive work, mostly on warranty.

The outcome? I only owned it for only 3 months and it was totally faultless in that time save for it being a fairly boring drive unless you were at warp factor 2. Having been an Audi urQuattro owner previously I was hoping to rekindle that special feeling in another iconic Audi only to be left totally disappointed. The plus sides were it didn't bork during the months I owned it and I made £3k when selling it on!

An M5 has the bork factor turned up to 20 vs the Audi. Very special when working but there's so many horror stories out there!

[Benbay001]

MikeyMike said:

The one car I keep coming back to that hasn’t gone crazy price wise is the e60 M5.

Im fairly risk tolerant but i still think you should stay away.

And no, i have no first hand experience.

[Biggy Stardust]

I bought a FFRR with a bad vibration as soon as it reached 50mph. The price reflected the issue.

Step 1 was I got the wheels balanced- they were unbelievably bad. It cost a few quid & sorted the problem instantly.

[QuattroDave]

QuattroDave said:

MikeyMike said:

I am the eternal ditherer when it comes to cars. I’ve always struggled to move on and take the plunge with something else. I’ve flirted with 3dr Cosworths, Esprit Turbos/S4s and Skylines in the past but always found a reason not to pull the trigger “too expensive”, “gearbox is weak”, “4WD transmission losses are too great” etc etc. Honestly, it’s ridiculous.
Just over 10 years ago I was looking at a moonstone blue 3dr Cossie that was up for £6.5k. I was put off by the fact it had a rusty battery tray Sometimes I look back and despair. Almost everything I once hankered after is now far out of my reach financially. The one car I keep coming back to that hasn’t gone crazy price wise is the e60 M5. Now if ever there was a car that I really should talk myself out of buying it is this! But I can’t escape the notion that I must take a punt or i will end up adding it to the list of the ones that got away.

I want to hear your examples of taking a leap of faith on a car that all conventional wisdom told you to run from. Did it go well or were all the horror stories well founded?

Not as risky as the E60 M5 but a direct competitor. About 5 years ago, shortly after my wifes father in law died two weeks after being given a late stage throat cancer diagnosis my wife and I had a f&%k it moment and I took out a large loan to buy my hero car - a C6 RS6 avant in Mugello blue, tuned to 700bhp. It already had the sump plug sorted (engine out job) and had a comprehensive history of very very expensive work, mostly on warranty.

The outcome? I only owned it for only 3 months and it was totally faultless in that time save for it being a fairly boring drive unless you were at warp factor 2. Having been an Audi urQuattro owner previously I was hoping to rekindle that special feeling in another iconic Audi only to be left totally disappointed. The plus sides were it didn't bork during the months I owned it and I made £3k when selling it on!

An M5 has the bork factor turned up to 20 vs the Audi. Very special when working but there's so many horror stories out there!

I should probably also mention my urQuattro in a bit more detail too. Wanted one since I had a non turbo quattro coupe at 19 and finally had an offer for one within my price range accepted when I was 29. Totally awesome to drive but had problem after problem, the biggest being the fact spares were so hard to come by that those that were available were ruinously expensive. Sunroof seal? £200. Good set of rear light clusters? £500 each. Rust free blistered arches, £700-1000 each. Digi dash ate itself a week before my wedding and that was £200 for the only guy in the country who had the knowledge to repair them to replace a couple of resistors.

Worst of all the car totally misbehaved when I decided to treat it like a garage queen. Turns out old cars like that prefer to be used rather than stored for 95% of their time!

[SweptVolume]

Bought a Rover 214 years ago. The head gasket didn't blow.

Edited by SweptVolume on Monday 15th February 10:48

[PrinceRupert]

I suppose it depends on your financial situation. If you are thinking "I've got £300 a month to spend on a car, I'll take out a 15k loan over three years and buy an M5" and don't have the spare cash in case it goes pop, and need it to be a reliable daily driver, it might be a mistake. If it's a second car, you've got a bit of spare cash to chuck at if it is needed, if it is sitting on your drive for a few months in the bad books not running it's not a problem ... go for it.

[TheOctaneAddict]

I'm planning on buying a 4.4 TDV8 L322 soon, this will be my first ingestion of the brave pill. I'm scared and excited in equal measure

[TheAngryDog]

MikeyMike said:

I am the eternal ditherer when it comes to cars. I’ve always struggled to move on and take the plunge with something else. I’ve flirted with 3dr Cosworths, Esprit Turbos/S4s and Skylines in the past but always found a reason not to pull the trigger “too expensive”, “gearbox is weak”, “4WD transmission losses are too great” etc etc. Honestly, it’s ridiculous.
Just over 10 years ago I was looking at a moonstone blue 3dr Cossie that was up for £6.5k. I was put off by the fact it had a rusty battery tray Sometimes I look back and despair. Almost everything I once hankered after is now far out of my reach financially. The one car I keep coming back to that hasn’t gone crazy price wise is the e60 M5. Now if ever there was a car that I really should talk myself out of buying it is this! But I can’t escape the notion that I must take a punt or i will end up adding it to the list of the ones that got away.

I want to hear your examples of taking a leap of faith on a car that all conventional wisdom told you to run from. Did it go well or were all the horror stories well founded?

You missed out on Cosworth ownership. It's the one car that I regret selling. They all had rusty battery trays, this is a nothing issue. The bigger issues is the availability of parts. Ford only made parts up to 10 years post a car going out of production. When I owned my Sapphire in 2002, there were plenty of parts NLA. The cars are too expensive now sadly, which is a shame as I would have loved another.

Re the E60 M5 - just do it. The internet is awash of people saying they spend more time broken than fixed, but that's mostly from people who have never owned own. I am sure you've seen my thread in readers rides about mine? I've had the full experience (bad mechanic). A lot of people have previously bought these thinking they're just a 5 series with a big engine. They then find out that it has supercaresque bills and get scared, so either try to run them for 20p a week, or sell them on quick, especially when an issue develops. They either forget, or are ignorant to, the fact that these need preventative maintenance, but once done, it's highly unlikely that you'd need to worry about such issues ever again.

Regret the things you do, not the things you don't.

[Scootersp]

It does seem to be a risky one!

Do you DIY anything?
Have you a local specialist in mind?

Are you thinking long term keeper or 6-12 month itch scratch?

I think long term it'll cost you one way or another, as an itch scratch you might be able to get in and out and have some happy memories.

I have a BMW 645 which has similar bad press but not quite so many and/or such high costs and it's going ok but is proper cheap.

I'd take a Lexus ISF over an M5, not such an event perhaps but I could sleep at night!!

Hard for us to say, don't beat yourself up too much about the past caution, certainly don't throw it all away just because you have been this way. What have you had bought in the past to compare to those you mentioned you didn't?

[The spinner of plates]

On the back of trying a mates one, I bought a Caterham - first one I saw

Over 7 years it had some issues and one on occasion had to finish it's journey on a recovery truck... my fault for not carrying a clutch cable on that journey.
I made some changes to it that it improved it to my liking and it left me with bleeding knuckles more than once - I even learnt some new swear words whilst underneath that car!
But a great experience and superb memories of the adventures - my kids will never forget blatting to summer Goodwood breakfasts for bacon sarnies, leaving before sunrise and having the b roads to ourselves
And finally sold it for more than I paid for it!

So no regrets. Life is fleeting, so just do it if you feel you can.
I'd rather rue the things I've done, than things I've not.

[lukeharding]

A QPV. £5k in parts in six months - however none of it was due to unreliability.

[Paynewright]

Porsche 996.2 C2 from ebay in Oct 17 without inspection. Gradual series of works (mostly DIY) to fix, enhance and improve. Its been into the local specialist a few times for servicing / jobs too big for me and he says its a good one!

Not used much lately due to covid and salty roads so itching to get out in it! Its so nice to drive and more accomplished than my driving ability!

Ian

Edited by Paynewright on Monday 15th February 11:01

[cidered77]

Citroen C6.

Always fancied one, shifted roles at work and had 60 miles each way per day on the M4 as a commute (remember commuting!?). Bought one privately for about 6.5k in 2014, with a huge wodge of history and evidence of being loved

Bills of 2k within first 3 months, and a bill so big in month 4 (alternator; turbos) that struck a deal with the garage to sell it for cheap, he does the repairs, and then split the sale fees . And then work hit an especially brutal period, he stopped returning calls, i stopped chasing, and annoyingly i never did get that money.

Only car i've ever really taken a bath on - think every car since have managed to sell for more than i paid for it. But the C6 probably cost me 4k from a 6.5k purchase price in less than a year.

Rode well though

[Stiggolas]

A couple of years ago, I went to a garage in Derby to look at a BMW 520i with a view to trading in my trusty old Peugeot 406. The beemer was OK but I wasn't feeling it. At the back of the yard was a dirty black SAAB 9-5 with 2 flat tyres and a dead battery. I asked about it and apparently it was a trade in and had been stood there with various prices on it until it was well in my budget. We pumped the tyres up and jump started it and it just purred. A 2.3 litre turbo 4 with an auto box. It drove beautifully and the deal was done. 2 tyres and a valet turned it into a lovely thing which I kept for 3 years. Spent nothing on it except 2 lots of Mobil 1 and loved it. Sort of lost the love when a car from up the road forgot to put its handbrake on and rolled into the front...

[Geoffscars]

TVR chimeara 4.3 60 thousand miles
Alfa Romeo convertible 113k
Bmw M3 87k
Mercedes sl 350
Mercedes s class.
Reliant scimitar
Porsche 944Etc

All bought from local garages via eBay or autotrader
All kept for about 2 years
Mix of diy for simple maintenance and local garage for other stuff
The only one I lost money on was the 350sl I paid 7500 but just couldn’t sell it eventually got rid on eBay but lost 5k
All the others sold for a bit more than I paid

[Jcwjosh]

PrinceRupert said:

I suppose it depends on your financial situation. If you are thinking "I've got £300 a month to spend on a car, I'll take out a 15k loan over three years and buy an M5" and don't have the spare cash in case it goes pop, and need it to be a reliable daily driver, it might be a mistake. If it's a second car, you've got a bit of spare cash to chuck at if it is needed, if it is sitting on your drive for a few months in the bad books not running it's not a problem ... go for it.

I think this is the best way to look at it.

If worst case it could sit out of action for a month or two whilst funds are generated for a repair then its no big issue if you have a reliable daily.

[samoht]

MikeyMike said:

Sometimes I look back and despair. Almost everything I once hankered after is now far out of my reach financially. The one car I keep coming back to that hasn’t gone crazy price wise is the e60 M5. Now if ever there was a car that I really should talk myself out of buying it is this! But I can’t escape the notion that I must take a punt or i will end up adding it to the list of the ones that got away.

I want to hear your examples of taking a leap of faith on a car that all conventional wisdom told you to run from. Did it go well or were all the horror stories well founded?

Eight years ago I sold my 180SX and bought an RX-7 FD. I have spent a large amount of money on it over that time, a few mods to keep temps under control on track, mostly repairs & replacement parts.

I don't regret a penny, for two reasons - I really like the car, and I have been able to afford it. The RX-7 is special to me because it's one of the bubble era Japanese performance icons, and of all of them it's the one that appeals to me the most. So partly it's special because of its era, which means I'm not really tempted to move on to a newer performance car. Plus, it's quick and I love the looks and the handling. So there's nothing I'd rather have short of perhaps an LFA, which makes it easy to justify very large bills keeping it running. If I was going into debt keeping it going that would be different, but ultimately it's been manageable and probably not that much worse than depreciation on a brand new car.

So my checklist would be
1) Is it a car I really love? (sometimes you won't know this til you've had it a while)
2) Can I afford it?
3) Is there a really good specialist not too far away?

The last one is critical because a good knowledgeable garage makes a big difference to keeping a car on the road at a reasonable price.

On the upside, as you mention very often the cars that are regarded as too risky now will rise in value in a decade's time, so if it's what you really want, you can have that ownership experience and quite possibly end up with a 'rebate' on some of the maintenance bills!

[TheOctaneAddict]

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