Discussion
Hi there
Im after some PH shared wisdom!
I recently have been debating upgrading my old Civic Type S 1.8 for the FN2 Type R and recently posted and delved into peoples experiences with them as they have got mixed reviews, after driving one I didn't understand all the negative press but I of course have not tried much in the way of Type Rs of old to compare. I love the engine and practical Civic shape - i am fairly set on them however I am now in a position where I need a car for daily duties (Commuting and driving to a few local jobs during the day as a photographer). Having a harder ride and higher fuel consumption im concerned I will regret it - although I don't think it would be that much more to run than my 1.8 - Insurance is the same.
My S is fairly economical but needs a good refresh as its getting on a bit! All good and well but it is not engaging to drive in any way (Hence why im sharing this on PH and not MoneySaving Expert!!) I could have a car that im not overly happy with driving even after refreshing everything.
This brings me to the CR-Z. I have seen a few pottering about locally and I think they look great! Like a small Civic coupe. I know they aren't as fast as they look but of course being a hybrid are going to be easier on the wallet. The ride I hear is also more forgiving and they handle very well, a bit more refined. They are also newer and have a lower driving position which I think is a bug plus. Unfortunately with Covid, sourcing one local to try is not easy but I am curious if I am on to winner here and if any owners could share what they're like. They roughly about the same price as an FN2.
I am trying to strike a balancing act here with around 5-6k budget, of something thats fun to drive but fairly practical. But really want to stay with reliable Japanese marques. Outside of them theres more options - but after a bad experience with German marques i would rather not. Ive ruled out Celica which is a good option for me but something about them i just do not like - i think its the interior!
Im after some PH shared wisdom!
I recently have been debating upgrading my old Civic Type S 1.8 for the FN2 Type R and recently posted and delved into peoples experiences with them as they have got mixed reviews, after driving one I didn't understand all the negative press but I of course have not tried much in the way of Type Rs of old to compare. I love the engine and practical Civic shape - i am fairly set on them however I am now in a position where I need a car for daily duties (Commuting and driving to a few local jobs during the day as a photographer). Having a harder ride and higher fuel consumption im concerned I will regret it - although I don't think it would be that much more to run than my 1.8 - Insurance is the same.
My S is fairly economical but needs a good refresh as its getting on a bit! All good and well but it is not engaging to drive in any way (Hence why im sharing this on PH and not MoneySaving Expert!!) I could have a car that im not overly happy with driving even after refreshing everything.
This brings me to the CR-Z. I have seen a few pottering about locally and I think they look great! Like a small Civic coupe. I know they aren't as fast as they look but of course being a hybrid are going to be easier on the wallet. The ride I hear is also more forgiving and they handle very well, a bit more refined. They are also newer and have a lower driving position which I think is a bug plus. Unfortunately with Covid, sourcing one local to try is not easy but I am curious if I am on to winner here and if any owners could share what they're like. They roughly about the same price as an FN2.
I am trying to strike a balancing act here with around 5-6k budget, of something thats fun to drive but fairly practical. But really want to stay with reliable Japanese marques. Outside of them theres more options - but after a bad experience with German marques i would rather not. Ive ruled out Celica which is a good option for me but something about them i just do not like - i think its the interior!
Edited by Ads22 on Sunday 14th February 12:41
The CR-Z is a good car as you say not quick but it won't be as cheap as your Civic to maintain but it won't break the bank either, I know you said Japanese only but take a look at the 1.6T Astra GTC 180 you'll get a good one for your budget & they're a fun reliable with sensible running costs:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010285...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010155...
Or the Kia ProCeed GT 200
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101268...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010285...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010155...
Or the Kia ProCeed GT 200
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101268...
Some good recommendations on here! Never even registered that Pro Cee’d but looks very nice!
2013 Cr-Z seems impossible to find but the extra boost sounds like its welcome!!
Unfortunately im just thinking that the vtec may be overkill for the roads around here and for what im using it for.
2013 Cr-Z seems impossible to find but the extra boost sounds like its welcome!!
Unfortunately im just thinking that the vtec may be overkill for the roads around here and for what im using it for.
Also interesting with these cr-z’s is the option to supercharge. Im not sure on the costs but sounds like an interesting idea later down the line...i mean i may be okay with the standard power output but they sound like good base cars judging by the Mugen one off they did a few years back with some similar mods.
There is actually a Mugen modded one available for sale at the moment but it is well within the firing line of gt86/dc5/350z money.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2012-Honda-CR-Z-1-5-IMA...
There is actually a Mugen modded one available for sale at the moment but it is well within the firing line of gt86/dc5/350z money.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2012-Honda-CR-Z-1-5-IMA...
I ran one for a year or so. Decent little car. Great to drive, nice gearshift, and fairly economical. Just found it to be too slow, 0-60 in 10 seconds isn’t great. Ended up driving it flat out everywhere whilst still delivering 40 mpg. Being a Honda very reliable (although being a Honda the paint chips easily).
doolie said:
Just a shame they never did a quick one
An even bigger shame that Honda didn't underseal them properly. Great little cars overall, had 3, still have 1,but the underside / arches / sills / behind bumpers etc all rust at an alarming rate, if you want to hold onto
one for any length of time a stripdown and underseal job is essential. And dont break a headlight, they are
seriously expensive. K20 conversion is the ultimate.
Yes they sound like an interesting car and possibly easier to live with day to day.
To be honest my perfect car would be the newer turbo Civics but are well out of my budget.
Id be keen to know how much the supercharger or K20 route is. I cant seem to find much info but i wouldn’t imagine its cheap.
150 bhp and i think itd be spot on
To be honest my perfect car would be the newer turbo Civics but are well out of my budget.
Id be keen to know how much the supercharger or K20 route is. I cant seem to find much info but i wouldn’t imagine its cheap.
150 bhp and i think itd be spot on
Like the FN2 these do seem marmite.....either fun to drive or meh!
Only thing for it is to test drive I guess. The main thing i like is a car thats nice to drive at low speeds (Fiesta ST does this really well but in my budget they appear to be either ragged or with a suspicious amount of previous owners)
I thought the FN2 was quite good at this too but i think it might be a bit cumbersome for driving around the fringes of greater London.
A lot of the German marques annoyingly have cars that tick the boxes but i dont want the headaches that come with them.
The Swift Sport also seems to come high up my list aswell the Colt Ralliart but those are literally like digging for gold!
Only thing for it is to test drive I guess. The main thing i like is a car thats nice to drive at low speeds (Fiesta ST does this really well but in my budget they appear to be either ragged or with a suspicious amount of previous owners)
I thought the FN2 was quite good at this too but i think it might be a bit cumbersome for driving around the fringes of greater London.
A lot of the German marques annoyingly have cars that tick the boxes but i dont want the headaches that come with them.
The Swift Sport also seems to come high up my list aswell the Colt Ralliart but those are literally like digging for gold!
Like the FN2 these do seem marmite.....either fun to drive or meh!
Only thing for it is to test drive I guess. The main thing i like is a car thats nice to drive at low speeds (Fiesta ST does this really well but in my budget they appear to be either ragged or with a suspicious amount of previous owners)
I thought the FN2 was quite good at this too but i think it might be a bit cumbersome for driving around the fringes of greater London.
A lot of the German marques annoyingly have cars that tick the boxes but i dont want the headaches that come with them.
The Swift Sport also seems to come high up my list aswell the Colt Ralliart but those are literally like digging for gold!
Only thing for it is to test drive I guess. The main thing i like is a car thats nice to drive at low speeds (Fiesta ST does this really well but in my budget they appear to be either ragged or with a suspicious amount of previous owners)
I thought the FN2 was quite good at this too but i think it might be a bit cumbersome for driving around the fringes of greater London.
A lot of the German marques annoyingly have cars that tick the boxes but i dont want the headaches that come with them.
The Swift Sport also seems to come high up my list aswell the Colt Ralliart but those are literally like digging for gold!
Mrs BigM ran a top spec CRZ for 7 years from new up to about 80K miles. Nothing went wrong, totally reliable. Mighty dull though. They are tiny cars, strict 2 seaters and not that much room in the boot for lots of camera gear. Allegedly they benchmarked an Elise for the ride and handling, 
the nearest the CRZ ever went to an Elise was when it was parked next to mine on the drive. Very little grip on the eco tyres and handling just fell apart as soon as you pushed it. Very pretty, nice car for the missus otherwise forget it.
the nearest the CRZ ever went to an Elise was when it was parked next to mine on the drive. Very little grip on the eco tyres and handling just fell apart as soon as you pushed it. Very pretty, nice car for the missus otherwise forget it.Well im hoping to try and get out this weekend and try one of any are available.
I think i may revise my search for small cars that handle well but arent necessarily fast, or just quick ish. The amount of average speed cameras around now i feel as though you cant take advantage of anything fast.
I think i may revise my search for small cars that handle well but arent necessarily fast, or just quick ish. The amount of average speed cameras around now i feel as though you cant take advantage of anything fast.
I've had mine 18 months or so, got a topic in members cars. I bought it to cut the cost of commuting.. And been working from home for the last 11 months! So thinking of maybe moving it on, it is so cheap to run though, saved me a lot over the time I was actually using it.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=18...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=18...
I think a 2nd generation swift sport would be worth trying.
It'll be newer than your civic, about as quick but more fun to drive whilst still being very useable as a daily as long as there's enough room for your photography gear.
My mate had a similar dilemma as he was recently forced to replace his puma 1.7 that he'd had for 17 years. Budget wouldn't stretch to anything like a fiesta ST plus he's got 2 kids and a very steep driveway (my ST won't go on it, too low). In the end he found a Fiesta 1.6 titanium which is good to drive and nippy enough with 120bhp. It's all about finding the right compromise for you.
It'll be newer than your civic, about as quick but more fun to drive whilst still being very useable as a daily as long as there's enough room for your photography gear.
My mate had a similar dilemma as he was recently forced to replace his puma 1.7 that he'd had for 17 years. Budget wouldn't stretch to anything like a fiesta ST plus he's got 2 kids and a very steep driveway (my ST won't go on it, too low). In the end he found a Fiesta 1.6 titanium which is good to drive and nippy enough with 120bhp. It's all about finding the right compromise for you.
I've had an EP3 and FN2.
Fn2 is the lesser drivers car maybe but there really isn't much in it that. Not so much you'd find it on a daily driver. On the track maybe.
Its got a decent boot. Rear space is more than adequate for children.
Front seats don't have much adjustment and i found them wearing me down on longer journeys but i'm talking 5hrs plus in the driving seat.
Maintenance was cheap enough i found. Most things are DIY if you are handy with a spanner. If not, find yourself a good indy garage and you won't need to worry. Mine didn't need anything really bar consumables and i got the valve clearances done. That made a world of difference to the engine so obviously hadn't been done in a while but its a Honda and they can take a beating.
MPG averaged about 33, more on a long motorway run.
Ride was hard and a bit crashy around town but that paid dividends on twisty roads where it became more composed the faster it went.
Overall i enjoyed it and i would have another.
Not had a CR-Z but i've always though they were quite cool things and heard they are good steer. So can't really help on that score.
Fn2 is the lesser drivers car maybe but there really isn't much in it that. Not so much you'd find it on a daily driver. On the track maybe.
Its got a decent boot. Rear space is more than adequate for children.
Front seats don't have much adjustment and i found them wearing me down on longer journeys but i'm talking 5hrs plus in the driving seat.
Maintenance was cheap enough i found. Most things are DIY if you are handy with a spanner. If not, find yourself a good indy garage and you won't need to worry. Mine didn't need anything really bar consumables and i got the valve clearances done. That made a world of difference to the engine so obviously hadn't been done in a while but its a Honda and they can take a beating.
MPG averaged about 33, more on a long motorway run.
Ride was hard and a bit crashy around town but that paid dividends on twisty roads where it became more composed the faster it went.
Overall i enjoyed it and i would have another.
Not had a CR-Z but i've always though they were quite cool things and heard they are good steer. So can't really help on that score.
In reality i would like to make an FN2 work but feel as though it will be wasted on me.
Suzuki Swift Sport does also seem to tick as many boxes but the looks leave me cold but id hope if i had a go in one id change my mind.
Another one i may be overlooking is the Volvo C30 (these look great in R Design trim!)- again on paper ticks quite a few boxes but a bit like the CR-Z does seem to get some mediocre views from some.
Suzuki Swift Sport does also seem to tick as many boxes but the looks leave me cold but id hope if i had a go in one id change my mind.
Another one i may be overlooking is the Volvo C30 (these look great in R Design trim!)- again on paper ticks quite a few boxes but a bit like the CR-Z does seem to get some mediocre views from some.
I used to feel the same way about Jap cars.
After having the Celica and MR2 I really wanted to stick with Toyota but the truth is they didn’t make anything else worth having until the GT86 which was out of budget and IMO just not great value. So I turned to Honda instead and bought the 1.8 Civic like yours. Unfortunately I found it a real disappointment to drive and didn’t enjoy my 2 year ownership. The engine was harsh and didn’t like to rev, the ride was crashy and the handling dull. Practicality was good and although the mechanicals were reliable I had problems with the electrics which were never resolved. Looking at other Jap offerings of late there was just nothing doing except the Swift sport which I never got to drive. I was on my way to try one but the dealer called me to tell me it had sold so that was that.
In the end I went back to Ford and bought a Fiesta. I’ve had a Focus and a Puma in the past and both were great to drive. The Fiesta is even better and I don’t miss the Jap stuff.
You could squeeze a Fiesta 140 into your 6k budget. Probably a 2014 red edition which I always thought looked good. I drove one a few years back and it was good. Or maybe the Focus Zetec s with the 1.6 turbo from the fiesta st? Less likely to have been ragged and a bit under the radar. More practical too.
One Jap car I always liked the thought of was the 3 Mps. The later shape (2009) slips into more sensible tax and is a rare and interesting option. Probably need a small budget stretch though.
After having the Celica and MR2 I really wanted to stick with Toyota but the truth is they didn’t make anything else worth having until the GT86 which was out of budget and IMO just not great value. So I turned to Honda instead and bought the 1.8 Civic like yours. Unfortunately I found it a real disappointment to drive and didn’t enjoy my 2 year ownership. The engine was harsh and didn’t like to rev, the ride was crashy and the handling dull. Practicality was good and although the mechanicals were reliable I had problems with the electrics which were never resolved. Looking at other Jap offerings of late there was just nothing doing except the Swift sport which I never got to drive. I was on my way to try one but the dealer called me to tell me it had sold so that was that.
In the end I went back to Ford and bought a Fiesta. I’ve had a Focus and a Puma in the past and both were great to drive. The Fiesta is even better and I don’t miss the Jap stuff.
You could squeeze a Fiesta 140 into your 6k budget. Probably a 2014 red edition which I always thought looked good. I drove one a few years back and it was good. Or maybe the Focus Zetec s with the 1.6 turbo from the fiesta st? Less likely to have been ragged and a bit under the radar. More practical too.
One Jap car I always liked the thought of was the 3 Mps. The later shape (2009) slips into more sensible tax and is a rare and interesting option. Probably need a small budget stretch though.
ChrisH72 said:
I used to feel the same way about Jap cars.
After having the Celica and MR2 I really wanted to stick with Toyota but the truth is they didn’t make anything else worth having until the GT86 which was out of budget and IMO just not great value. So I turned to Honda instead and bought the 1.8 Civic like yours. Unfortunately I found it a real disappointment to drive and didn’t enjoy my 2 year ownership. The engine was harsh and didn’t like to rev, the ride was crashy and the handling dull. Practicality was good and although the mechanicals were reliable I had problems with the electrics which were never resolved. Looking at other Jap offerings of late there was just nothing doing except the Swift sport which I never got to drive. I was on my way to try one but the dealer called me to tell me it had sold so that was that.
In the end I went back to Ford and bought a Fiesta. I’ve had a Focus and a Puma in the past and both were great to drive. The Fiesta is even better and I don’t miss the Jap stuff.
You could squeeze a Fiesta 140 into your 6k budget. Probably a 2014 red edition which I always thought looked good. I drove one a few years back and it was good. Or maybe the Focus Zetec s with the 1.6 turbo from the fiesta st? Less likely to have been ragged and a bit under the radar. More practical too.
One Jap car I always liked the thought of was the 3 Mps. The later shape (2009) slips into more sensible tax and is a rare and interesting option. Probably need a small budget stretch though.
Your thoughts definitely mirror mine on the Civic front. I have tried to but i just haven’t gelled with it. I think the engine isnt too bad performance/economy wise but everything else even down to the seating position ive had a hard time getting on with. Its been a cheap run around though from when i had a work vehicle and wasn’t driving own car much.After having the Celica and MR2 I really wanted to stick with Toyota but the truth is they didn’t make anything else worth having until the GT86 which was out of budget and IMO just not great value. So I turned to Honda instead and bought the 1.8 Civic like yours. Unfortunately I found it a real disappointment to drive and didn’t enjoy my 2 year ownership. The engine was harsh and didn’t like to rev, the ride was crashy and the handling dull. Practicality was good and although the mechanicals were reliable I had problems with the electrics which were never resolved. Looking at other Jap offerings of late there was just nothing doing except the Swift sport which I never got to drive. I was on my way to try one but the dealer called me to tell me it had sold so that was that.
In the end I went back to Ford and bought a Fiesta. I’ve had a Focus and a Puma in the past and both were great to drive. The Fiesta is even better and I don’t miss the Jap stuff.
You could squeeze a Fiesta 140 into your 6k budget. Probably a 2014 red edition which I always thought looked good. I drove one a few years back and it was good. Or maybe the Focus Zetec s with the 1.6 turbo from the fiesta st? Less likely to have been ragged and a bit under the radar. More practical too.
One Jap car I always liked the thought of was the 3 Mps. The later shape (2009) slips into more sensible tax and is a rare and interesting option. Probably need a small budget stretch though.
I wont lie i have enjoyed most Fords ive driven, i had an old 1.6 mk1 Focus and that was superb but it started to gradually fall apart. Had great handling and engine and actually drove very well compared to much more ‘sporty’ stuff ive had.
Really a car thats nice to drive with character and also reliable is what im after but Jap cars sometimes struggle with this i find and Ford seem to get it right on most parts. I think if the STs and Black editions weren’t so common and ragged around these parts id be all over one.
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