Weekend/Track Toy for a tall bloke..

[SWoll]

So, with another incredibly practical and comfy diesel estate company car on the horizon for my 25k+ business and family miles a year I've finally decided that 2017 is the year I engage again with the 'fun' of driving.

Had a few decent performance cars in my youth (205 Gti, E36 M3, 99MY Impreza Turbo PPP) but for the past 10 years work and family commitments have left me in a long list of very capable, but ultimately dull, diesel saloons.

With my fingers crossed the plan was to find myself in the seat of a S2 Elise 111R next summer but after a test drive at the weekend unfortunately I just don't fit. I'm 6ft4" and not particularly long of leg and with the roof up it was beyond uncomfortable and basically dangerous, so that idea has gone out of the window. They also seem to have risen in price again and a decent one would stretch the budget significantly.

So then good people of PH, with a budget of £10-15K and requirements of weekend B Road fun and the odd track day, where would you spend your money?

FYI, I've so far toyed with the idea of a Boxster S, E46 M3 CS, Impreza WR1, Mitsubishi EVO 6/7, 996 C2. Basically something that gets the adrenaline pumping and will make me want to get up early on a Sunday morning just to go for a drive.

[DoubleD]

Is there anymore room in a VX220? They are slightly different so might be worth a look.

[anonymous-user]

Try a Caterham with the SV chassis and lowered floors, that worked for me where an Elise didn't, VX220 is exactly the same as the elise unfortunately in terms of headroom..

I'm 6'3" and long in the body (regular inside leg) so I am in a very similar position and can totally relate to your situation.

[RikJonAtk]

6ft3-and-a-bit here... 101kg.

You will fit an e46 M3 with ease. Don't bother with a CS M3 - waste of money - just get a regular M3 and strip some weight out yourself if you're doing track days. I did exactly this; very capable. Ensure you get one with the rear sub-frame repair done and make your own mind up about SMG vs Manual - don't believe all the BS on forums about which is best.

I also had a TVR Tuscan Red Rose for a while, I fit, but wasn't really convinced I fit safely as I reckon my head could hit the front and rear horizontal bits above the screens. Bloody good fun though!

I struggled with head room in an old Boxster and there wasn't enough space between knees and steering wheel for my hands.

Sat in a Tiger and didn't fit.

My daily is a 350z and I fit in that quite comfortably. 370z is a fine fit too.

Westfield SEiW is next on my list to try...

[MRobbins1987]

If your happy to go fwd an fd2 Type R or Megane 265 cup should both be capable on track and a blast on b roads, s2000, gt86, cayman or z4m would be towards the top of my list if you want a rwd sport car/coupe.

[HayesDC2]

S2000 will be very snug, I'm 6ft 3 and the windscreen was like a safety mask.

[kambites]

DoubleD said:

Is there anymore room in a VX220? They are slightly different so might be worth a look.

Unfortunately the dimensions of the cabin are identical. There is a slight difference in the seat design but that's about it.

You can buy maybe an inch of headroom in the Elise platform by fitting a fixed unpadded seat but no more than that.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 29th November 08:00

[jamieduff1981]

SWoll said:

I'm 6ft4" and not particularly long of leg

I'm not sure whether you'd fit a Cerbera or not. They tend to have more legroom than anyone wants and many have adjustable pedals fitted to reach the driver with the seat all the way forward. If the seat back is upright my head will touch the roof, but upright isn't a comfortable position anyway. If your arms are in proportion with your torso (i.e. quite long) you might find a Cerbera very comfortable. They feel snug inside. You certainly don't rattle around, but once an initial wave of claustrophobia passes in a minute or so, I realised I was extremely comfortable, could see everything I would need to see (as opposed to seeing what I was used to seeing) and didn't really want to get out again.

The steering wheel doesn't adjust for reach so for a man your height it would simply be a case of whether the steering wheel was in comfortable reach with the seat back reclined to suit. You won't have a problem with leg room.

[ajh38]

I've got a 986 Boxster S and while it's a great car I don't know if you'd fit. I'm 6ft and not exactly a broad chap and I don't feel like I'd want to be any bigger in there. I don't use it with the hood up as I find it a tad claustrophobic.

[RobM77]

You could modify and lighten a 996 C2? Or perhaps a Boxster if you fit.

A Caterham with a lowered floor could be doable. I bought my second Caterham from a guy who was around 6'4". You could even mould a seat as the racing guys do. If that's not enough, can you get an SV Caterham for that money?

Motorbike?...

[SWoll]

Thanks for all of the responses so far guys.

RikJonAtk said:

6ft3-and-a-bit here... 101kg.

You will fit an e46 M3 with ease. Don't bother with a CS M3 - waste of money - just get a regular M3 and strip some weight out yourself if you're doing track days. I did exactly this; very capable. Ensure you get one with the rear sub-frame repair done and make your own mind up about SMG vs Manual - don't believe all the BS on forums about which is best.

I also had a TVR Tuscan Red Rose for a while, I fit, but wasn't really convinced I fit safely as I reckon my head could hit the front and rear horizontal bits above the screens. Bloody good fun though!

I struggled with head room in an old Boxster and there wasn't enough space between knees and steering wheel for my hands.

Sat in a Tiger and didn't fit.

My daily is a 350z and I fit in that quite comfortably. 370z is a fine fit too.

Westfield SEiW is next on my list to try...

I'm basically the same size as you so a good reference (100KG) so very handy.

I looked into the E46 M3 a while back and whilst a good car I'm not convinced it's going to tick my boxes TBH, and finding a good one in budget looks to be a challenege to say the least.

The Tuscan is by far my favourite TVR (still looks amazing 17 years after launch) but unfortunately even an older car would cost £20K, and I hear they like to be driven regularly. Perhaps in a couple of years. Surprised at the lack of room as with Peter Wheeler having been such a big bloke (6.6) I'd have thought they'd be fine.

Boxster/996 seem to suffer with the fact that the steering wheel isn't height adjustable so feel like it's in my lap when driving.

I've also been looking at kit cars like the Westfield Megabusa/Dax Rush Hyabusa as the bike engined thing has always appealed. Not sure adding another 100KG is going to help with the lack of torque though..

jamieduff1981 said:

I'm not sure whether you'd fit a Cerbera or not. They tend to have more legroom than anyone wants and many have adjustable pedals fitted to reach the driver with the seat all the way forward. If the seat back is upright my head will touch the roof, but upright isn't a comfortable position anyway. If your arms are in proportion with your torso (i.e. quite long) you might find a Cerbera very comfortable. They feel snug inside. You certainly don't rattle around, but once an initial wave of claustrophobia passes in a minute or so, I realised I was extremely comfortable, could see everything I would need to see (as opposed to seeing what I was used to seeing) and didn't really want to get out again.

The steering wheel doesn't adjust for reach so for a man your height it would simply be a case of whether the steering wheel was in comfortable reach with the seat back reclined to suit. You won't have a problem with leg room.

As above, I assume that's because Wheeler was a lanky sod then so basically the opposite to me. I do have long arms though so worth a look.

As I've not driven a TVR before, are they really as much of a handful as widely reported or do you just need to have a soft feet/hands and a decent attention span? Also, what would a decent Cerbera cost? How about maintenance?

Edited by SWoll on Tuesday 29th November 09:18

Edited by SWoll on Tuesday 29th November 09:19

[kambites]

Of course another option would be to buy an Elise or similar and just not put the roof on.

[james_gt3rs]

I gave a pax lap to a 6ft5 bloke in my VX220 (with helmet on), so it can be done. He said he used to race a Caterham so clearly there are solutions...

[kambites]

Overall height isn't really a problem with an Elise/VX220 unless someone is really tall; the problem tends to be unusual proportions.

[RobM77]

james_gt3rs said:

I gave a pax lap to a 6ft5 bloke in my VX220 (with helmet on), so it can be done. He said he used to race a Caterham so clearly there are solutions...

My racing Caterham was owned by a 6'4" guy.

OP: Most Caterham racers use a moulded seat, like in a single seater. That's either a bean bag with resin in that sets when a vacuum is applied (known as an 'Indi Seat') or a two part foam seat that grows and sets around you. Both are tricky to make and almost impossible on your own, but most race teams would do you one if you ask (the Indi seat makers also do a fitting service). In a Caterham with a lowered floor this can get you extremely low. I like to sit very low in a car, to the extent that all the single seaters I've raced my bum's actually been on the floor, but in my Caterham with lowered floor I think I had a few inches between my bum and the floor, so there's definitely a lot of scope there for a tall person.

[jamieduff1981]

SWoll said:

jamieduff1981 said:

I'm not sure whether you'd fit a Cerbera or not. They tend to have more legroom than anyone wants and many have adjustable pedals fitted to reach the driver with the seat all the way forward. If the seat back is upright my head will touch the roof, but upright isn't a comfortable position anyway. If your arms are in proportion with your torso (i.e. quite long) you might find a Cerbera very comfortable. They feel snug inside. You certainly don't rattle around, but once an initial wave of claustrophobia passes in a minute or so, I realised I was extremely comfortable, could see everything I would need to see (as opposed to seeing what I was used to seeing) and didn't really want to get out again.

The steering wheel doesn't adjust for reach so for a man your height it would simply be a case of whether the steering wheel was in comfortable reach with the seat back reclined to suit. You won't have a problem with leg room.

As above, I assume that's because Wheeler was a lanky sod then so basically the opposite to me. I do have long arms though so worth a look.

As I've not driven a TVR before, are they really as much of a handful as widely reported or do you just need to have a soft feet/hands and a decent attention span? Also, what would a decent Cerbera cost? How about maintenance?

It's true Peter Wheeler was lanky.

I'm about 5'10.5" and fit fine. My dad is quite short but because of very short legs but his back is longer than mine. He fits fine bum-to-head wise in my Cerb. We've been on a 300 mile drive in mine in comfort with my daughters in the back in high back boosters.

As for handling, it's the latter. I'm nothing special as a driver, and am a cautious sort when driving. I had built the Cerbera up to be a vicious thing but it's a pussy cat when driven up to 6/10ths, demands concentration but fundamentally doesn't do anything bad from 7 to 9/10ths and I've never really had the venue to push it beyond its limits. I've accidently had the back end out once on a roundabout, but if actually paying attention it's really easy to steer on the throttle. It's got a fantastic turn-in and outstanding throttle response. Having said all that, start to get too familiar and it will slap you to remind you who's boss. It'll break traction in a straight line in 2nd on a cold dry road, or in 3rd on a wet road, but it happens as the torque builds, so in 2nd it will accelerate up to 50mph then they'll spin up and the car yaws. Either feather the throttle or dip the clutch and it settles down though - there's no need for a Mustang/Corvette style graceful yawing-off-the-road effort in all its Youtube glory. It doesn't hurt to start off a bit afraid of it, but it's one of those cars which rewards your efforts to drive it better.

A decent Cerbera will probably cost around £20k at the moment, and a running budget of £2,000/year should be plenty.

[ikarl]

I'm 6'4" and struggled with a vx220.... loved the car but in an accident I would probably have split my skull on the rear roll bar.

I now have a MEV Exocet turbo for b-road and trackday fun...loads of room and buckets of fun! With the seat all the way back I can't even touch the pedals...easy to get in/out too and as it's based on an mx5 it's reasonably cheap to run and parts are cheap.

[SWoll]

jamieduff1981 said:

It's true Peter Wheeler was lanky.

I'm about 5'10.5" and fit fine. My dad is quite short but because of very short legs but his back is longer than mine. He fits fine bum-to-head wise in my Cerb. We've been on a 300 mile drive in mine in comfort with my daughters in the back in high back boosters.

As for handling, it's the latter. I'm nothing special as a driver, and am a cautious sort when driving. I had built the Cerbera up to be a vicious thing but it's a pussy cat when driven up to 6/10ths, demands concentration but fundamentally doesn't do anything bad from 7 to 9/10ths and I've never really had the venue to push it beyond its limits. I've accidently had the back end out once on a roundabout, but if actually paying attention it's really easy to steer on the throttle. It's got a fantastic turn-in and outstanding throttle response. Having said all that, start to get too familiar and it will slap you to remind you who's boss. It'll break traction in a straight line in 2nd on a cold dry road, or in 3rd on a wet road, but it happens as the torque builds, so in 2nd it will accelerate up to 50mph then they'll spin up and the car yaws. Either feather the throttle or dip the clutch and it settles down though - there's no need for a Mustang/Corvette style graceful yawing-off-the-road effort in all its Youtube glory. It doesn't hurt to start off a bit afraid of it, but it's one of those cars which rewards your efforts to drive it better.

A decent Cerbera will probably cost around £20k at the moment, and a running budget of £2,000/year should be plenty.

Fair enough, thanks for that. At that price I've got to say the Tuscan would definitely appeal more as prefer the styling and have no need for 4 seats.

When you say £2K a year, what kind of usage is that? I'd expect to do no more than 3K miles or so as it would be a pure weekend toy and nothing more (now I've said that I'll probably end up going on european tours etc.). Love the idea of a TVR though as it has foibles, will take time to learn and bond with and is the kind of car you just can't buy new any more.

Anyway, back to the current situation (and in total opposition to TVR) I'm wondering whether scratching the 'rally rep' itch for a while might be fun? I've noticed decent, original WR1 and EVO 6/7's can be had for £10-12k ( http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/s...)and might fit well for the year round B road blast without losing too much money over a couple of years use?

Just in case anyone comments, I'm not bothered in the slightest about the 'image' these cars seem to have picked up over the years, more about the ownership/driving experience as it's been a long time since my MY99 Imp Turbo, which I flipped fairly quickly for a profit in my early 20's. I remember it being a great car when 'on it' but a bit crap for everyday use, which wouldn't be a problem these days.

Edited by SWoll on Tuesday 29th November 10:52

[scubadude]

I'm 6' 2" and fit in a regular Caterham (not even lowered floors) I also am "long in the body" so have the seat forward and then reclined and I'm well under the roll bar, with a lowered floor you'd be fine.

(Mine was also about £10K, so within your budget)

[jamieduff1981]

SWoll said:

Fair enough, thanks for that. At that price I've got to say the Tuscan would definitely appeal more as prefer the styling and have no need for 4 seats.

When you say £2K a year, what kind of usage is that? I'd expect to do no more than 3K miles or so as it would be a pure weekend toy and nothing more (now I've said that I'll probably end up going on european tours etc.). Love the idea of a TVR though as it has foibles, will take time to learn and bond with and is the kind of car you just can't buy new any more.

All post-Cerbera TVRs have annual servicing with a 6,000 mile minor and 12,000 mile major requirement. Most people get a minor done one year and the major the next. The Tuscan is a great car - my pal has a Mk1 Tuscan S . The Speed Six engine is a peach and from memory I think you're looking at £300~£400 for a minor and £700~£800 for a major. Most services come with a few extra corrective actions found during the service, and most people find that they underspend that figure above most years, but occasionally there's something like a clutch change to be done which bumps the average up year on year.

Regular use is better with them.