Manheim Auction prices and simulcast
Discussion
Does anyone know whether the Manheim Simulcast online system also shows you sold prices? For example there was a Nissan Note that went in the Bristol auction earlier today. Is it possible to know the hammer price on simulcast or do you have to watch it live? I have attached details of the example I am talking about. Looking at similar cars for sale at dealers it is possible to purchase a similar car for £7500-£7700. Anyone know what sort of price this went for if they have access to manheim simulcast? Other fees involved are going to be say £230 buyers fee, surecheck fee £30, online bid fee £30, transport fee £150 (150 miles back to the garage @ £1 per mile). Surely the hammer price would have to be £6000 or less for a dealer to make a profit once they have taken off all their costs?
OP - With the greatest respect, you are attempting to get started in a fairly cut throat business, with absolutely zero knowledge - It will not go well! (I have seen all your other threads)
Go and get a job in the Motor Trade, learn how it really works, (all aspects) and see just how hard it is to survive, then have a long hard think about what you really want to do.
Go and get a job in the Motor Trade, learn how it really works, (all aspects) and see just how hard it is to survive, then have a long hard think about what you really want to do.
750turbo said:
OP - With the greatest respect, you are attempting to get started in a fairly cut throat business, with absolutely zero knowledge - It will not go well! (I have seen all your other threads)
Go and get a job in the Motor Trade, learn how it really works, (all aspects) and see just how hard it is to survive, then have a long hard think about what you really want to do.
thanks for the advice. I will try my hand on a few cars to see how it goes. Maybe I will find that I cannot buy the cars I want for the right price and it will be a non starter. Maybe I will get stitched up at auction. What I do know is if you never try you will never succeed. Go and get a job in the Motor Trade, learn how it really works, (all aspects) and see just how hard it is to survive, then have a long hard think about what you really want to do.
It will have gone for over £6k.
Prices at most auction houses are not far off retail presently. In fact at times I have seen cars go for more than retail value. There is very little margin in many cases. I would suggest if you are looking at getting cars transported you wont make money as the margin on price is not there to support it. If you have your own transport ie trailer truck etc and you go to a live auction then maybe as your time is "free".
Manheim also recently ish changed their fee structure and it is now more expensive and complex in fees.
To put it in perspective I saw a car go at a small private auction house for iirc about £6000. I found two online in similar condition 1 with lower mileage for £1000+ less. That was many many months ago and things have got even tighter on margins since then in trade prices.
Prices at most auction houses are not far off retail presently. In fact at times I have seen cars go for more than retail value. There is very little margin in many cases. I would suggest if you are looking at getting cars transported you wont make money as the margin on price is not there to support it. If you have your own transport ie trailer truck etc and you go to a live auction then maybe as your time is "free".
Manheim also recently ish changed their fee structure and it is now more expensive and complex in fees.
To put it in perspective I saw a car go at a small private auction house for iirc about £6000. I found two online in similar condition 1 with lower mileage for £1000+ less. That was many many months ago and things have got even tighter on margins since then in trade prices.
If you're thinking of trying part time trading a go then I'd listen to the advice given. I fancied it, buy a car, clean it up and flog it for a profit.
In reality it's not that easy, I worked out my out goings, advertising, buying fees, costs to sort the car, insurance etc. Went to the auction thinking a car advertised for £7000 on auto trader must go for south of £6000 at auction. Serious shock when I went and found them going for near enough what the retail cars were up for! Went a few times before shelving the idea, buying at auction and flogging to the public just isn't a viable business, at least not from what I've seen. Really you need a good supply of decent cars from a dealer or something. Otherwise you'd work your arse off for £250 profit then a car will give up and you'll be spending it all out making it good again.
In reality it's not that easy, I worked out my out goings, advertising, buying fees, costs to sort the car, insurance etc. Went to the auction thinking a car advertised for £7000 on auto trader must go for south of £6000 at auction. Serious shock when I went and found them going for near enough what the retail cars were up for! Went a few times before shelving the idea, buying at auction and flogging to the public just isn't a viable business, at least not from what I've seen. Really you need a good supply of decent cars from a dealer or something. Otherwise you'd work your arse off for £250 profit then a car will give up and you'll be spending it all out making it good again.
bristolracer said:
The car gets the punter in the door
The finance makes the profit
Also the reason why dealers have no interest in cash deals.
Thats an interesting post. My main business is financial services lending although not against assets like cars. I would have thought the commission for arranging a £7k car loan would be around 2% maximum = around £140. I could be totally wrong on this figure though. If there was some way of getting paid 5% on the loan it might be viable. I guess you will get paid more if you its a sub prime loan and the borrower is paying 10%-20%.The finance makes the profit
Also the reason why dealers have no interest in cash deals.
I've been trading about a year now and have made plenty of mistakes. The difference being mine were at the lower end of the market so were measured in 100's rather than 1000's I'm doing ok but find without full dealer facilities (finance and card payments) anything over 3k can take a while to move. Get yourself to an auction in person and get a feel for it.
Mikedknight said:
£230 also seems really low for an auction fee I picked a car up on Friday hammer price of £825 total cost inc fees of £1005 and that was on BCA gold tier pricing.
Hi mate, yeah manheim fees are much lower than BCA. https://www.manheim.co.uk/campaigns/buyer%20benefi...
£236+VAT buyer fee on a £6k to £6.5k hammer price if you buy 4 or more cars per annum
£226+VAT buyer fee on same if you buy 15 or more cars per annum
I have been to a couple of BCA auction a while back, insane buyers fees. You need the Gold card minimum and my understanding is you get billed full whack working through the blue and silver cards until your 12th purchase which is then at gold rates.
Mikedknight said:
£230 also seems really low for an auction fee I picked a car up on Friday hammer price of £825 total cost inc fees of £1005 and that was on BCA gold tier pricing.
Hi mate, yeah manheim fees are much lower than BCA. https://www.manheim.co.uk/campaigns/buyer%20benefi...
£236+VAT buyer fee on a £6k to £6.5k hammer price if you buy 4 or more cars per annum
£226+VAT buyer fee on same if you buy 15 or more cars per annum
I have been to a couple of BCA auction a while back, insane buyers fees. You need the Gold card minimum and my understanding is you get billed full whack working through the blue and silver cards until your 12th purchase which is then at gold rates.
Edited by legendtrader on Tuesday 30th August 10:52
Mikedknight said:
That is a big difference the only benefit to the super high fees for your first 11 is that it puts a lot of private buyers off hence you would hope keeping the prices down.
good point that could well be the case. I am sure some experienced dealers would know the answer.OK so between my father and I we have 60 years in the motor trade. He started on a rented pitch with a garden shed and 5 cars. This grew to a multiple site/multi franchise business. However we now no longer deal in the motor trade,staffing was our main problem but there was other factors which arnt related to this question. The point I feel is being missed by you is that there will be hundreds of similar Nissan notes avaliable. If you want to start trading the cars that have reached the bottom of their depreciation curve will in my opinion be much safer. A mass produced throw away product such as the car you are looking at will devalue each month it's with you and working on tight margins with no way to offer finance/gap/paint protection/ services plans etc could be costly.
I have also read some of your other threads about having 20k audi/bmw in stick,just because something is a premium brand doesn't change the above. All late cars are hit every month by cap and gg. The big boys just write them down and reduce the screen price,if you have 1 car in stock it's hard to do the same. Sorry to pee on your chips
I have also read some of your other threads about having 20k audi/bmw in stick,just because something is a premium brand doesn't change the above. All late cars are hit every month by cap and gg. The big boys just write them down and reduce the screen price,if you have 1 car in stock it's hard to do the same. Sorry to pee on your chips
sfella said:
OK so between my father and I we have 60 years in the motor trade. He started on a rented pitch with a garden shed and 5 cars. This grew to a multiple site/multi franchise business. However we now no longer deal in the motor trade,staffing was our main problem but there was other factors which arnt related to this question. The point I feel is being missed by you is that there will be hundreds of similar Nissan notes avaliable. If you want to start trading the cars that have reached the bottom of their depreciation curve will in my opinion be much safer. A mass produced throw away product such as the car you are looking at will devalue each month it's with you and working on tight margins with no way to offer finance/gap/paint protection/ services plans etc could be costly.
I have also read some of your other threads about having 20k audi/bmw in stick,just because something is a premium brand doesn't change the above. All late cars are hit every month by cap and gg. The big boys just write them down and reduce the screen price,if you have 1 car in stock it's hard to do the same. Sorry to pee on your chips
thanks for the advice. When you say bottom of the dep curve how old are you recommending? Would cars around 4 years old with <50k 1 owner fit the bill? I might go along to the Manheim Buntingthorpe auction on Thursday to watch the BMW sales go through and have a look at prices.I have also read some of your other threads about having 20k audi/bmw in stick,just because something is a premium brand doesn't change the above. All late cars are hit every month by cap and gg. The big boys just write them down and reduce the screen price,if you have 1 car in stock it's hard to do the same. Sorry to pee on your chips
To answer the OP's actual question:
No, selling prices are not available on simulcast unless you are the buyer.
However, Mannheim do give composite price information on their website and if there is only one car of a type in the last month you can work out what it went for.
That precise car sold for £7900 against a CAP Clean price of £7825 and a Retail CAP price of £9450.
Manheim's fees are not significantly lower than BCA's. They are a little bit but not a lot. Manheim quote them without VAT and BCA with which accounts for most of the difference.
No, selling prices are not available on simulcast unless you are the buyer.
However, Mannheim do give composite price information on their website and if there is only one car of a type in the last month you can work out what it went for.
That precise car sold for £7900 against a CAP Clean price of £7825 and a Retail CAP price of £9450.
Manheim's fees are not significantly lower than BCA's. They are a little bit but not a lot. Manheim quote them without VAT and BCA with which accounts for most of the difference.
legendtrader said:
thanks for the advice. When you say bottom of the dep curve how old are you recommending? Would cars around 4 years old with <50k 1 owner fit the bill? I might go along to the Manheim Buntingthorpe auction on Thursday to watch the BMW sales go through and have a look at prices.
The best thing to do is find something a bit unusual which you know the market for and know how to fix which everyone else steers away from in terror at auction. Personally, a 4 year old 320d BMW with 18" wheels and 50k would be my nightmare car to deal with. You'll be competing with 100+ identical cars within 50 miles and many from main dealers and it'll drop £500 some months.
bloomen said:
I'm not sure I've ever seen a car sell at auction that you couldn't buy for far less privately. Is there a secret discount that the insiders get on the ticket price? It doesn't add up.
In 1990 I bought a 8 month old Fiat Uno for £3900 hammer price. New price at the time was around £7000, so I reckon I did pretty well out of that one. I traded it in for £2900 three years later! Buyers fee was about £120 IIRC, at BCA (or were they still ADT back then?).By the late 90's, early 00's, it was a different story. I fancied an Alfa 146 around 1997/98 and went to a Fiat/Alfa special sale at BCA. It was very busy and the cars were fetching more than retail at the Alfa dealer.
Around that time, if the auction was quiet, you could still pick up cars at around private sale prices, or below. Maybe you still can if you're there on the right day. I did have a little play at trying to trade back then but never felt I could buy cheap enough to be able to make any money at it.
Given auction prices are (apparently) so high at the moment, would there be a potential market in buying privately, prepping for sale and putting them through auction?
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