What should I get. Opinions Please.
Discussion
Hi all. Been lurking on here for a while now. Decided it's time to post.
I'll be looking to buy my first rear wheel drive car next year, around easter time when the weather gets better hopefully.
I've never owned anything rear wheel drive but have driven a fair few around various tracks. I'd imagine it's a slightly different ball game on the road though.
I've currently got a 2012(62) Clio 200 with CUP chassis and Recaros. That will be getting traded in and I'll be forking out on top of that in most cases.
Here's the shortlist I have landed on:
E46 BMW M3 Coupe. (probably a later model 2005/06)
I'm just a bit worried about the things that go wrong are going to be pricey to repair. I've heard some dealers refuse to warrant fixing the dreaded crack in the subframe mounts which BMW are supposed to fix if the car is under 10 years old and unmodified. There's also he dreaded Vanos thing packing in.
As well as being expensive to fix, I'd imagine tyres and brakes won't be cheap either.
I've always wanted an M3 though! Would love to own one before they start going turbo charged! I've driven an E90 in anger around Bedford and loved it. Found it wasn't too tricky to catch when I pushed it too hard. Can't afford an E90 though.
Nissan 370Z. (2009/10)
I don't think I could stretch to a newer car meaning I wouldn't have the luxury of a warranty. Would I need one with a reliable(?) Nissan??
Buying a 350z would be a fair bit cheaper but they're a bit long in the tooth now. They also have habit of eating clutches every 30-40k.
Honda S2000. (2007 to 2009 AP2)
Probably the smarter choice so far in terms of running costs and reliability. The thing that puts me off is their apparent snappyness on the limit. Is this actually the case if you have the correct tyres and a decent geometry set-up? I've had two VTEC Hondas before and learnt that you really do need an open road to enjoy them properly. Can be a bit frustrating sometimes. Also, they're not that easy to skid at low speeds due to lack of torque.
The sense of occasion with it being a convertible appeals to me however. Lets not forget how incredible they sound with a Gruppe M intake.
Toyota GT86. (2012)
Definitely the most sensible car on the list as it's the only one with a warranty. I love the idea of being able to have fun and make the car move around at relatively low speeds without causing too much trouble. Would probably be a good car for me to exploit and really learn rear wheel drive dynamics.
I think I may get a bit bored of the gruff engine though. Although, thinking about it, I'd imagine there's far more chances in this car to use all the revs on the road than any of the above. If I was a sensible chap I should probably only consider this car. I am however, not sensible.
BMW M135i. (2012)
Great all rounder and mighty fast, but they don't look that special and don't have an LSD. £1500 or thereabouts for BirdsAuto to fit one.
Could be a good choice with the amount of grunt on tap and a nice warranty. I'd also most likely have to buy it on tick which I don't like doing.
Wild cards:
BMW 1M, BMW E90 M3, or even a Cayman R.
I'd definitely have to buy these on tick! :-(
I think the Cayman might be too much of a leap up the ladder. Would probably be more sensible to experience other, less accomplished cars first.
I obviously need to do a fair bit of test driving. But...... if anyone can shed any light on the subject and has experience owning any of these cars, I'd much appreciate your comments. After all, you can only learn so much from a short test drive.
Thank you for reading my essay! Sorry if it's a bit long winded....
I'll be looking to buy my first rear wheel drive car next year, around easter time when the weather gets better hopefully.
I've never owned anything rear wheel drive but have driven a fair few around various tracks. I'd imagine it's a slightly different ball game on the road though.
I've currently got a 2012(62) Clio 200 with CUP chassis and Recaros. That will be getting traded in and I'll be forking out on top of that in most cases.
Here's the shortlist I have landed on:
E46 BMW M3 Coupe. (probably a later model 2005/06)
I'm just a bit worried about the things that go wrong are going to be pricey to repair. I've heard some dealers refuse to warrant fixing the dreaded crack in the subframe mounts which BMW are supposed to fix if the car is under 10 years old and unmodified. There's also he dreaded Vanos thing packing in.
As well as being expensive to fix, I'd imagine tyres and brakes won't be cheap either.
I've always wanted an M3 though! Would love to own one before they start going turbo charged! I've driven an E90 in anger around Bedford and loved it. Found it wasn't too tricky to catch when I pushed it too hard. Can't afford an E90 though.
Nissan 370Z. (2009/10)
I don't think I could stretch to a newer car meaning I wouldn't have the luxury of a warranty. Would I need one with a reliable(?) Nissan??
Buying a 350z would be a fair bit cheaper but they're a bit long in the tooth now. They also have habit of eating clutches every 30-40k.
Honda S2000. (2007 to 2009 AP2)
Probably the smarter choice so far in terms of running costs and reliability. The thing that puts me off is their apparent snappyness on the limit. Is this actually the case if you have the correct tyres and a decent geometry set-up? I've had two VTEC Hondas before and learnt that you really do need an open road to enjoy them properly. Can be a bit frustrating sometimes. Also, they're not that easy to skid at low speeds due to lack of torque.
The sense of occasion with it being a convertible appeals to me however. Lets not forget how incredible they sound with a Gruppe M intake.
Toyota GT86. (2012)
Definitely the most sensible car on the list as it's the only one with a warranty. I love the idea of being able to have fun and make the car move around at relatively low speeds without causing too much trouble. Would probably be a good car for me to exploit and really learn rear wheel drive dynamics.
I think I may get a bit bored of the gruff engine though. Although, thinking about it, I'd imagine there's far more chances in this car to use all the revs on the road than any of the above. If I was a sensible chap I should probably only consider this car. I am however, not sensible.
BMW M135i. (2012)
Great all rounder and mighty fast, but they don't look that special and don't have an LSD. £1500 or thereabouts for BirdsAuto to fit one.
Could be a good choice with the amount of grunt on tap and a nice warranty. I'd also most likely have to buy it on tick which I don't like doing.
Wild cards:
BMW 1M, BMW E90 M3, or even a Cayman R.
I'd definitely have to buy these on tick! :-(
I think the Cayman might be too much of a leap up the ladder. Would probably be more sensible to experience other, less accomplished cars first.
I obviously need to do a fair bit of test driving. But...... if anyone can shed any light on the subject and has experience owning any of these cars, I'd much appreciate your comments. After all, you can only learn so much from a short test drive.
Thank you for reading my essay! Sorry if it's a bit long winded....
Edited by ECG1000 on Wednesday 27th November 01:06
Edited by ECG1000 on Wednesday 27th November 09:18
Interesting essay, I enjoyed 
My opinions, as unscientific as they are (but this is PH after all, and you DID ask...)
E46 BMW M3 Coupe.
The serious drivers' choice. I would imagine this would give the most smiles per mile and £ spent. However, as you say - I wouldn't want to be in possession of the wallet that needs to be opened come service and repair time. Will probably chew through expensive brakes and tyres.
Nissan 370Z. (2009/10)
I would imagine this would come with some serious reliability and hence, not require much in the way of mechanical repair bills. It's Nippon, innit?! The downside is that it's relatively anonymous and not at all special compared to the BMW. And as far as I can tell, practicality isn't great, and fuel bills are not the best. Possibly the thinking man's sports car choice, who is a little bit risk averse.
Honda S2000.
I can comment on this, as an ex-owner...plus I also have a mate who has owned a series of these for years. Basically bullet-proof reliability. Fairly rare and special - more so than the Nissan IMHO. Amazing fun to drive, especially with the 'v-tec yo!' However, a little respect is needed in less than perfect driving conditions, as a lot of these have ended their lives backwards into hedges. So-so fuel economy, and pretty dire practicality. Yes, SOME boot space. But a little contortionally difficult to get in and out of as a daily drive, with not much cabin space.
Toyota GT86.
Despite your reasons for wanting to love one of these, they're not meant to be that good at all. Especially at the current prices. Might make a good choice in another 5 years when they're as cheap as MX5's. But I wouldn't drop a packet of cash on one anytime soon.
BMW M135i. (2012)
These are supposed to be amazing in every single way - a BMW 'M' car but without the running costs of an M3. The downside is still high residual values - you'll pay a lot for a good one, comparitively. Probably a good choice if you intend to keep it for a long time and get your money's worth whilst it depreciates.
Wild cards:
BMW 1M
Doesn't appear to be much of an advantage over the M135 - you'll pay more for not a great deal of a user experience over the 135 comparitively, if the road tests are anything to go by.
Cayman R.
I had a Porsche for 4 years (a 996-911) and whatever people say, they are still an expensive car to run, even with indy servicing. Unless you desire the badge and the prestige, I would say there are far better driver's cars in your list which give better VFM whilst delivering the maximum smiles per mile and investment.
Does this help?
Whatever you choose, I am happy for you that you are in a position to have such a dilemma and nice decision to make - all the best to you!
Let us know how you get on
My opinions, as unscientific as they are (but this is PH after all, and you DID ask...)
E46 BMW M3 Coupe.
The serious drivers' choice. I would imagine this would give the most smiles per mile and £ spent. However, as you say - I wouldn't want to be in possession of the wallet that needs to be opened come service and repair time. Will probably chew through expensive brakes and tyres.
Nissan 370Z. (2009/10)
I would imagine this would come with some serious reliability and hence, not require much in the way of mechanical repair bills. It's Nippon, innit?! The downside is that it's relatively anonymous and not at all special compared to the BMW. And as far as I can tell, practicality isn't great, and fuel bills are not the best. Possibly the thinking man's sports car choice, who is a little bit risk averse.
Honda S2000.
I can comment on this, as an ex-owner...plus I also have a mate who has owned a series of these for years. Basically bullet-proof reliability. Fairly rare and special - more so than the Nissan IMHO. Amazing fun to drive, especially with the 'v-tec yo!' However, a little respect is needed in less than perfect driving conditions, as a lot of these have ended their lives backwards into hedges. So-so fuel economy, and pretty dire practicality. Yes, SOME boot space. But a little contortionally difficult to get in and out of as a daily drive, with not much cabin space.
Toyota GT86.
Despite your reasons for wanting to love one of these, they're not meant to be that good at all. Especially at the current prices. Might make a good choice in another 5 years when they're as cheap as MX5's. But I wouldn't drop a packet of cash on one anytime soon.
BMW M135i. (2012)
These are supposed to be amazing in every single way - a BMW 'M' car but without the running costs of an M3. The downside is still high residual values - you'll pay a lot for a good one, comparitively. Probably a good choice if you intend to keep it for a long time and get your money's worth whilst it depreciates.
Wild cards:
BMW 1M
Doesn't appear to be much of an advantage over the M135 - you'll pay more for not a great deal of a user experience over the 135 comparitively, if the road tests are anything to go by.
Cayman R.
I had a Porsche for 4 years (a 996-911) and whatever people say, they are still an expensive car to run, even with indy servicing. Unless you desire the badge and the prestige, I would say there are far better driver's cars in your list which give better VFM whilst delivering the maximum smiles per mile and investment.
Does this help?
Whatever you choose, I am happy for you that you are in a position to have such a dilemma and nice decision to make - all the best to you!
Let us know how you get on
I had an s2000.
I had a 135i
The S2000 was a sports car.
The BMW was a commuter car with a fast engine.
The S2000 was old and kept breaking.
The BMW was boring to drive and boring to be in.
I'd suggest a newer (or better loved) S2000 with a full specialist geo and decent tyres.
Maybe the Nissan as a second option.
I'd never get another bmw, they just have no sense of occasion.
No matter how high spec the model they are just dull businesslike commuter boxes.
Some might act like it's casual Friday, but it's still more like an office desk than a sports car.
I had a 135i
The S2000 was a sports car.
The BMW was a commuter car with a fast engine.
The S2000 was old and kept breaking.
The BMW was boring to drive and boring to be in.
I'd suggest a newer (or better loved) S2000 with a full specialist geo and decent tyres.
Maybe the Nissan as a second option.
I'd never get another bmw, they just have no sense of occasion.
No matter how high spec the model they are just dull businesslike commuter boxes.
Some might act like it's casual Friday, but it's still more like an office desk than a sports car.
Think about it this way. If you have no family to cart around, kids to mess it up, or tips to the dump to do then this is the time to get a convertible.
Think of that Spring/ Summer morning...have you got that in your head? The morning sun, that fresh smell of a new warm day and all that. You step out of your door and there waiting for you is your S2000*. You fire her up, fold back the roof, blip the throttle so you can hear the engine without the windows and roof getting in the way of the sound, put on your favourite warm day tune (not too loud) and feel the warm sun on your head. You travel to work and trust me you will have a smile on your face, you arrive at the office/ factory whatever in a cheerful mood, your colleges day will be brightened up, your boss with thank you for bringing a joyful face into work. You will be a better person. (Now writing this I realise why my staff always ask for things when they see the Chim in the car park!)
Or....you could climb into a car and feel the same as the guy with the 320D as on the way into work he will be traveling just as fast as you.
Hope this helps.
*Other makes and models of soft top are available
Think of that Spring/ Summer morning...have you got that in your head? The morning sun, that fresh smell of a new warm day and all that. You step out of your door and there waiting for you is your S2000*. You fire her up, fold back the roof, blip the throttle so you can hear the engine without the windows and roof getting in the way of the sound, put on your favourite warm day tune (not too loud) and feel the warm sun on your head. You travel to work and trust me you will have a smile on your face, you arrive at the office/ factory whatever in a cheerful mood, your colleges day will be brightened up, your boss with thank you for bringing a joyful face into work. You will be a better person. (Now writing this I realise why my staff always ask for things when they see the Chim in the car park!)
Or....you could climb into a car and feel the same as the guy with the 320D as on the way into work he will be traveling just as fast as you.
Hope this helps.
*Other makes and models of soft top are available
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Interesting essay, I enjoyed
My opinions, as unscientific as they are (but this is PH after all, and you DID ask...)
E46 BMW M3 Coupe.
The serious drivers' choice. I would imagine this would give the most smiles per mile and £ spent. However, as you say - I wouldn't want to be in possession of the wallet that needs to be opened come service and repair time. Will probably chew through expensive brakes and tyres.
Nissan 370Z. (2009/10)
I would imagine this would come with some serious reliability and hence, not require much in the way of mechanical repair bills. It's Nippon, innit?! The downside is that it's relatively anonymous and not at all special compared to the BMW. And as far as I can tell, practicality isn't great, and fuel bills are not the best. Possibly the thinking man's sports car choice, who is a little bit risk averse.
Honda S2000.
I can comment on this, as an ex-owner...plus I also have a mate who has owned a series of these for years. Basically bullet-proof reliability. Fairly rare and special - more so than the Nissan IMHO. Amazing fun to drive, especially with the 'v-tec yo!' However, a little respect is needed in less than perfect driving conditions, as a lot of these have ended their lives backwards into hedges. So-so fuel economy, and pretty dire practicality. Yes, SOME boot space. But a little contortionally difficult to get in and out of as a daily drive, with not much cabin space.
Toyota GT86.
Despite your reasons for wanting to love one of these, they're not meant to be that good at all. Especially at the current prices. Might make a good choice in another 5 years when they're as cheap as MX5's. But I wouldn't drop a packet of cash on one anytime soon.
BMW M135i. (2012)
These are supposed to be amazing in every single way - a BMW 'M' car but without the running costs of an M3. The downside is still high residual values - you'll pay a lot for a good one, comparitively. Probably a good choice if you intend to keep it for a long time and get your money's worth whilst it depreciates.
Wild cards:
BMW 1M
Doesn't appear to be much of an advantage over the M135 - you'll pay more for not a great deal of a user experience over the 135 comparitively, if the road tests are anything to go by.
Cayman R.
I had a Porsche for 4 years (a 996-911) and whatever people say, they are still an expensive car to run, even with indy servicing. Unless you desire the badge and the prestige, I would say there are far better driver's cars in your list which give better VFM whilst delivering the maximum smiles per mile and investment.
Does this help?
Whatever you choose, I am happy for you that you are in a position to have such a dilemma and nice decision to make - all the best to you!
Let us know how you get on
Mostly good stuff but a 370Z anonymous compared to a 3 series BMW, really ? even the M3 is still pretty numerous, the 370Z would almost certainly be more reliable, based on age but also it wont shred its boot floor, eat its variable cam timing gubbins or be getting pretty rusty like a lot of E46s are. My opinions, as unscientific as they are (but this is PH after all, and you DID ask...)
E46 BMW M3 Coupe.
The serious drivers' choice. I would imagine this would give the most smiles per mile and £ spent. However, as you say - I wouldn't want to be in possession of the wallet that needs to be opened come service and repair time. Will probably chew through expensive brakes and tyres.
Nissan 370Z. (2009/10)
I would imagine this would come with some serious reliability and hence, not require much in the way of mechanical repair bills. It's Nippon, innit?! The downside is that it's relatively anonymous and not at all special compared to the BMW. And as far as I can tell, practicality isn't great, and fuel bills are not the best. Possibly the thinking man's sports car choice, who is a little bit risk averse.
Honda S2000.
I can comment on this, as an ex-owner...plus I also have a mate who has owned a series of these for years. Basically bullet-proof reliability. Fairly rare and special - more so than the Nissan IMHO. Amazing fun to drive, especially with the 'v-tec yo!' However, a little respect is needed in less than perfect driving conditions, as a lot of these have ended their lives backwards into hedges. So-so fuel economy, and pretty dire practicality. Yes, SOME boot space. But a little contortionally difficult to get in and out of as a daily drive, with not much cabin space.
Toyota GT86.
Despite your reasons for wanting to love one of these, they're not meant to be that good at all. Especially at the current prices. Might make a good choice in another 5 years when they're as cheap as MX5's. But I wouldn't drop a packet of cash on one anytime soon.
BMW M135i. (2012)
These are supposed to be amazing in every single way - a BMW 'M' car but without the running costs of an M3. The downside is still high residual values - you'll pay a lot for a good one, comparitively. Probably a good choice if you intend to keep it for a long time and get your money's worth whilst it depreciates.
Wild cards:
BMW 1M
Doesn't appear to be much of an advantage over the M135 - you'll pay more for not a great deal of a user experience over the 135 comparitively, if the road tests are anything to go by.
Cayman R.
I had a Porsche for 4 years (a 996-911) and whatever people say, they are still an expensive car to run, even with indy servicing. Unless you desire the badge and the prestige, I would say there are far better driver's cars in your list which give better VFM whilst delivering the maximum smiles per mile and investment.
Does this help?
Whatever you choose, I am happy for you that you are in a position to have such a dilemma and nice decision to make - all the best to you!
Let us know how you get on
I had an E46 M3 for 6 months. Bored me to tears 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time was worrying what someone was going to do to it when I left it anywhere and finding enough room to try and enjoy it on the road.
Problem for me with them is this (irrespective of wallet disasters):
They are hugely capable and have lots of available grip, which imo, makes them tricky to enjoy on the road as you never really feel like you can wring its neck without immense risk of falling off the road and being killed to death. Conversely, the brakes as standard are so appalling that you would want to drop 3k straight away on a brake upgrade to use it in anger on the track.
Then there are any wallet disasters that may occur. VANOS failures are less common on the S54s compared to the older units found in the E36.
Nice places to be day-to-day, and high 20s MPG is easy to achieve regularly. I think I averaged 28 out of mine over those 6 months with some sporadic expeditions up to 30mpg when I had a very relaxed tank. I do 360 miles per week so a tank wasn't lasting that long.
As good as the 19s look, avoid if you enjoy comfort. I wish I had bought one on 18s, maybe it would have made it a little more engaging more of the time. The ride was intolerable on some surfaces though, but acceptable once up to speed.
Steering is pretty crap standard imo, I had mine on some coilovers and the additional camber up front transformed the way the car felt to drive.
As good a car as it was (exceptional all rounder), I wouldn't have another. The engine is an utter masterpiece but the rest of the car left me a little cold as far as enjoyment goes. Also the driveline is appalling for what was a 50k car. My 20 year old Nissan with a welded diff and carbon paddle clutch is smoother!
I test drove a GT86 earlier and the earlier and they are good fun and very engaging but the engine does feel very flat and I think that would get annoying after a while.
Problem for me with them is this (irrespective of wallet disasters):
They are hugely capable and have lots of available grip, which imo, makes them tricky to enjoy on the road as you never really feel like you can wring its neck without immense risk of falling off the road and being killed to death. Conversely, the brakes as standard are so appalling that you would want to drop 3k straight away on a brake upgrade to use it in anger on the track.
Then there are any wallet disasters that may occur. VANOS failures are less common on the S54s compared to the older units found in the E36.
Nice places to be day-to-day, and high 20s MPG is easy to achieve regularly. I think I averaged 28 out of mine over those 6 months with some sporadic expeditions up to 30mpg when I had a very relaxed tank. I do 360 miles per week so a tank wasn't lasting that long.
As good as the 19s look, avoid if you enjoy comfort. I wish I had bought one on 18s, maybe it would have made it a little more engaging more of the time. The ride was intolerable on some surfaces though, but acceptable once up to speed.
Steering is pretty crap standard imo, I had mine on some coilovers and the additional camber up front transformed the way the car felt to drive.
As good a car as it was (exceptional all rounder), I wouldn't have another. The engine is an utter masterpiece but the rest of the car left me a little cold as far as enjoyment goes. Also the driveline is appalling for what was a 50k car. My 20 year old Nissan with a welded diff and carbon paddle clutch is smoother!
I test drove a GT86 earlier and the earlier and they are good fun and very engaging but the engine does feel very flat and I think that would get annoying after a while.
Thank you for the replies guys. All very helpful! Also, it's nice to be on a friendly forum where you can gain advice without being flamed alive!
Ray Luxury-Yacht and Snowboy.
Can you comment more on S2000 ownership? Any big "moments" good or bad?
Are they fun to drive all the time or do you have to be at nine tenths to get anything from them?
If I did get one, I'd be off to TDi-North the following day to get the geometry properly set up.
McWigglebum4th.
I have actually driven a Caterham and had a riot! However the car needs to be my daily as 99% of the time, that's what it will be used for. Most of my day to day driving including the commute involves country roads. I wouldn't want to chug about in a shed when I could be a having a blast in something decent.
Hopefully one day I'll be in the position to have a decent daily and a silly toy tucked away for the weekend and track days.
Urban Sports.
I didn't realise that. Didn't we get all the changes made to the AP2 apart from the bigger engine?
danp.
I'd say my budget is at a push 20k. Obviously I want to keep the amount I have to spend on top of the Clio to a minimum. I realise you can get E90's for under 20k but these have more miles on them than I'd want. Then there's the running cost!
Maybe I should add this to the wild cards...
Gruber.
M3's were pretty big money new. I'm just thinking they'll still have the running cost of an expensive car.
stumpage.
I've actually got the use of an Austin Healey Frog Eye. Know exactly what you mean about the whole occasion of driving a roofless car when the sun's out. Such a special feeling.
J4CKO.
How do you mean annonymous compared to a 3 series? Sorry if that's a thick question!
zeppelin101.
Never thought I'd hear that about an M3. I thought they were supposed to be a massive grin maker?!
Ray Luxury-Yacht and Snowboy.
Can you comment more on S2000 ownership? Any big "moments" good or bad?
Are they fun to drive all the time or do you have to be at nine tenths to get anything from them?
If I did get one, I'd be off to TDi-North the following day to get the geometry properly set up.
McWigglebum4th.
I have actually driven a Caterham and had a riot! However the car needs to be my daily as 99% of the time, that's what it will be used for. Most of my day to day driving including the commute involves country roads. I wouldn't want to chug about in a shed when I could be a having a blast in something decent.
Hopefully one day I'll be in the position to have a decent daily and a silly toy tucked away for the weekend and track days.
Urban Sports.
I didn't realise that. Didn't we get all the changes made to the AP2 apart from the bigger engine?
danp.
I'd say my budget is at a push 20k. Obviously I want to keep the amount I have to spend on top of the Clio to a minimum. I realise you can get E90's for under 20k but these have more miles on them than I'd want. Then there's the running cost!
Maybe I should add this to the wild cards...
Gruber.
M3's were pretty big money new. I'm just thinking they'll still have the running cost of an expensive car.
stumpage.
I've actually got the use of an Austin Healey Frog Eye. Know exactly what you mean about the whole occasion of driving a roofless car when the sun's out. Such a special feeling.
J4CKO.
How do you mean annonymous compared to a 3 series? Sorry if that's a thick question!
zeppelin101.
Never thought I'd hear that about an M3. I thought they were supposed to be a massive grin maker?!
S2000 is probably the last of the real sports cars. 
The engine in VTEC is awesome dropping between 2nd and third in thd lanes.
Then out of VTEC and 4th for villages and towns.
It's a pretty intence car for long commutes - but fine for short medium commutes.
And excellent for long a road journeys.
They need a full geo. Sometimes adjustor bolts stick.
Budget £400 for the geo with a backup £500 for the bolts.
Try 'centre gravity' or 'wheels in motion' for the geo.
If possible, buy one that's already been done so the boots are free.
But get it re-geo'd when you buy it.
Keep an eye on tyre pressures too - it's very sensitive.
As a drivers car, it's awesome.
An excellent short gearbox.
A great little red start button.
Well balanced, excellent handling.
They can be a bit tail happy, and most have no traction control.
But that's what makes them great.
If you want a fun sports car without a roof, get one of these.
The engine in VTEC is awesome dropping between 2nd and third in thd lanes.
Then out of VTEC and 4th for villages and towns.
It's a pretty intence car for long commutes - but fine for short medium commutes.
And excellent for long a road journeys.
They need a full geo. Sometimes adjustor bolts stick.
Budget £400 for the geo with a backup £500 for the bolts.
Try 'centre gravity' or 'wheels in motion' for the geo.
If possible, buy one that's already been done so the boots are free.
But get it re-geo'd when you buy it.
Keep an eye on tyre pressures too - it's very sensitive.
As a drivers car, it's awesome.
An excellent short gearbox.
A great little red start button.
Well balanced, excellent handling.
They can be a bit tail happy, and most have no traction control.
But that's what makes them great.
If you want a fun sports car without a roof, get one of these.
ECG1000 said:
McWigglebum4th.
I have actually driven a Caterham and had a riot! However the car needs to be my daily as 99% of the time, that's what it will be used for. Most of my day to day driving including the commute involves country roads. I wouldn't want to chug about in a shed when I could be a having a blast in something decent.
Hopefully one day I'll be in the position to have a decent daily and a silly toy tucked away for the weekend and track days.
!
I used a 7 for commuting for many yearsI have actually driven a Caterham and had a riot! However the car needs to be my daily as 99% of the time, that's what it will be used for. Most of my day to day driving including the commute involves country roads. I wouldn't want to chug about in a shed when I could be a having a blast in something decent.
Hopefully one day I'll be in the position to have a decent daily and a silly toy tucked away for the weekend and track days.
!
On the crappy days i used the shed
Had or tested most of the cars on your list - you might want to add a z4 coupe in 3lr or M guise to your list of possible cars too.
For an introduction to rwd on the road the M3 is the best, predictable and with the option of stability control kicking in if you are driving home on a cold wet night and don't want to play. Anything less than 10 years old is still covered by BMW fixing the boot floor and lots have already been fixed, later cars have a 12 year warranty for corrosion rather than the 6 on the earlier cars. For slow second gear fun where you can flick off the safety systems and slide the rear I would take the M3, so much easier to slide and balance than the others on your list. Does mean that you will go through rear tyres quickly and have to restrain yourself from being too much of a hooligan. Go for 18in wheels and it can be a comfy daily driver or a back road drifter.
Wrote off my first s2000 which was my first rwd car ten years or so ago now, back in another one now as it was the one car I missed the most, but hopefully a bit older and wiser now. Very cheap to run and practical enough for daily use but have a great engine and is a challenge to drive quickly. They don’t telegraph the limits the way the M3 does and can be hard to catch when they do let go, so not ideal for learning the limits but it depends how you approach it, unlike the M3 you can’t drive it hard from the off like a hot hatch or you will end up in the bushes.
High road tax on the 370z puts a lot of people off, a lot of rubber on the road so not that playful at lower speeds on the larger tyre option. Didn’t find the engine very exciting when I had a test drive a bit lazy to rev and thirsty.
Porsche was very capable and did everything well but lacked character and low speed thrills, potential engine issues and high running costs always a worry.
For an introduction to rwd on the road the M3 is the best, predictable and with the option of stability control kicking in if you are driving home on a cold wet night and don't want to play. Anything less than 10 years old is still covered by BMW fixing the boot floor and lots have already been fixed, later cars have a 12 year warranty for corrosion rather than the 6 on the earlier cars. For slow second gear fun where you can flick off the safety systems and slide the rear I would take the M3, so much easier to slide and balance than the others on your list. Does mean that you will go through rear tyres quickly and have to restrain yourself from being too much of a hooligan. Go for 18in wheels and it can be a comfy daily driver or a back road drifter.
Wrote off my first s2000 which was my first rwd car ten years or so ago now, back in another one now as it was the one car I missed the most, but hopefully a bit older and wiser now. Very cheap to run and practical enough for daily use but have a great engine and is a challenge to drive quickly. They don’t telegraph the limits the way the M3 does and can be hard to catch when they do let go, so not ideal for learning the limits but it depends how you approach it, unlike the M3 you can’t drive it hard from the off like a hot hatch or you will end up in the bushes.
High road tax on the 370z puts a lot of people off, a lot of rubber on the road so not that playful at lower speeds on the larger tyre option. Didn’t find the engine very exciting when I had a test drive a bit lazy to rev and thirsty.
Porsche was very capable and did everything well but lacked character and low speed thrills, potential engine issues and high running costs always a worry.
ECG1000 said:
zeppelin101.
Never thought I'd hear that about an M3. I thought they were supposed to be a massive grin maker?!
When you're not getting the use out of that engine, it's just another 3 series. May as well be in a 320i when just cruising around. The cabin is plush enough for the type of car it is, but with the exception of the dials there is not much in there that makes it much more special than a boggo 3 series with the leather option ticked.Never thought I'd hear that about an M3. I thought they were supposed to be a massive grin maker?!
I am in the minority by all accounts.
I went back to turbo Nissans afterwards. Can't say I regret it one bit.
Edited by zeppelin101 on Wednesday 27th November 09:46
Well I have a similar list and I've still got my S2000.
The others felt heavy or too removed. The M3 was the closest, but I've had BMWs before and whilst good don't grab me as much.
Snappy on cold tyres / damp roads, but really the later cars (04 onwards) are not where near as bad as the pre-facelifts. AP2 refers to the 2.2 engine in the states as above, but everyone knows AP2 refers the the facelift over here
I've had no problems with mine, only requiring tyres, pads and tax (which is stupidly high on the later cars) and a lot of fuel.
I used it daily when not on the bike and have never wanted for anything - just get the stereo / speakers upgraded as they are rubbish!
The others felt heavy or too removed. The M3 was the closest, but I've had BMWs before and whilst good don't grab me as much.
Snappy on cold tyres / damp roads, but really the later cars (04 onwards) are not where near as bad as the pre-facelifts. AP2 refers to the 2.2 engine in the states as above, but everyone knows AP2 refers the the facelift over here
I've had no problems with mine, only requiring tyres, pads and tax (which is stupidly high on the later cars) and a lot of fuel.
I used it daily when not on the bike and have never wanted for anything - just get the stereo / speakers upgraded as they are rubbish!
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