Lexus LS400 or Jaguar XJ? Barge shootout!
Discussion
V8Driver said:
The D2 A8 was massively over engineered. The interior is like granite, so solid, full aluminium build which at the ages we're talking about won't rust, four wheel drive and 300BHP from the early 4.2's, Audi had a point to prove with the car, that they could make a car as good as the 7 series and S Class, you only have to sit in an D2 A8 and then an XJ and LS, S Class whatever, and everything in comparison feels cheap IMHO.
Although most of the A8 is over engineered, they still managed to put some annoyingly cheap basic VAG parts bin electrics in it - it still suffers from annoying things like heating motor flaps failing (as every VAG car does), secondary air injection flaps etc.The even more annoying thing is that the generic VAG bits in it are basically the same as every other car except they managed to very slightly alter them so you can't stick a bit from a Golf in as a substitute!
Wow, some of you guys really hate Jags here. I haven't owned a V8 and they may be different, but the picture of unreliability and very poor engineering also being painted of the X300 is simply not one I recognise. The AJ6/16 engine is very strong indeed. The AJ6 can shrug off poor maintenance and has no intrinsic problems. The V12 is intolerant of poor servicing, particularly the coolant needs to be changed regularly, as do the cap, rotor and leads, but if it is maintained properly, it too is reliable. To describe these cars - and especially the six cylinder - as intrinsically unreliable is not correct. The XJ40 likewise. The pages of xj40.com are not filled with tales of woe and pain. Most cars are reliable.
I find it difficult to believe that I and the many other people I know who own one have all won some kind of reliability lottery. Owning an XJ40 is not like playing with a live grenade. The XJ40 is older than the OP would consider, but the X300 is similarly decent. Both cars do however suffer from rust, which can be considerable.
The Lexus is a very fine car with excellent engineering; I recognise that, any sensible person would. The OP would be well served by one and since he says he likes Japanese cars and their way of dong things, a Lexus would be a good choice. But be balanced with your criticisms guys!
I find it difficult to believe that I and the many other people I know who own one have all won some kind of reliability lottery. Owning an XJ40 is not like playing with a live grenade. The XJ40 is older than the OP would consider, but the X300 is similarly decent. Both cars do however suffer from rust, which can be considerable.
The Lexus is a very fine car with excellent engineering; I recognise that, any sensible person would. The OP would be well served by one and since he says he likes Japanese cars and their way of dong things, a Lexus would be a good choice. But be balanced with your criticisms guys!
The LS 400 is a REAL landmark car in its sector.
Reason enough to own one over the Jag if you like the Lexus.
LS 400 interior works a lot nicer with a light colour - they are a bit bland (sorry) with a black interior.
Hard to justify a Mk 3 if you can find a Mk 4 in decent order.
The Mk 1 and 2 have the advantage (if the LS 400s potential classic status pushes buttons) of being the original shape of the LS 400.
The Mk 4 was the final development of the LS 400 - and as such its hard to argue a case for the Mk 3 unless you can find one awesomely superior in condition to other LS 400s for sale at the time.
Buy the LS 400 - replace it (eventually) with an X350 - job done
Feel free to ignore all the above if its deemed lacking in logic
Reason enough to own one over the Jag if you like the Lexus.
LS 400 interior works a lot nicer with a light colour - they are a bit bland (sorry) with a black interior.
Hard to justify a Mk 3 if you can find a Mk 4 in decent order.
The Mk 1 and 2 have the advantage (if the LS 400s potential classic status pushes buttons) of being the original shape of the LS 400.
The Mk 4 was the final development of the LS 400 - and as such its hard to argue a case for the Mk 3 unless you can find one awesomely superior in condition to other LS 400s for sale at the time.
Buy the LS 400 - replace it (eventually) with an X350 - job done
Feel free to ignore all the above if its deemed lacking in logic
Charvet said:
JoshyS said:
The Jaguar looks stunning inside and out but its the spec that lets it down for me a bit personally. Lots of things that are standard in the Lexus were an option in the Jag, and usually not ticked. Lots got thrown into late 01-02 cars, but even then they aren't very special if you like your gadgets,
Which options in the Jag do you mean?Edited by JoshyS on Friday 11th July 21:17
JoshyS said:
Folding mirrors, heated seats, seat memory, sat nav, CD changer etc.
As far as I know the 4.0 Sovereign had most of these.http://www.jag-lovers.org/brochures/bro1999/2000ra...
And - do you REALLY want a 15 year old satnav in your car?
Charvet said:
Besides the "fine engineering" of the Lexus, anything that is in favour of this car design-wise?
Otherwise it would be sleeping with an intelligent but plain-looking woman,
The lexus has lots of nice touches, such as reading lights in the back that are not possible to see in the the rear view mirror as the distract the driver.Otherwise it would be sleeping with an intelligent but plain-looking woman,
The seats and steering column have "memory" settings for different drivers
It is very very quiet inside... quieter than the equivalent rolls of the same era.
It has cupholders
Charvet said:
How does that change the W140/W124 rip-off design of the exiterior?
I definitely think Lexus had sneaked a look at the W140 development blueprints as the design definitely has a touch of that S-Class about it. I know it's had some insults thrown at it for being 'dull' looking and slightly derivative but it's certainly a more handsome thing than the W124. Regarding the A8, it was a beautiful thing. I note above the comment that it lagged behind the Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes in contemporary tests. I wouldn't agree with that assessment though. I can't speak for the Jaguar of the time, though. The E38 I felt was competent but never really inspiring, with a pretty dire interior when judged against the competition. Cheapo plastics and leathers combined with a design that feels dated and stuffy but with none of the 'heritage style' of the Jaguar. The S-Class was utterly superb in many respects, but I thought the A8 was a worthy contender. Considering it was Audi's first real attempt at entering the full sized executive segment (the older V8 being their previous 'luxury' offering). They threw a boat load of design and technology at it, and it genuinely felt 'over-engineered', to reference a commonly used term. Of course, there were crap bits in it like the HVAC system but the space frame design and AWD systems were 'thinking outside the box' at the time. Then they decided to market the box as 'sealed for life' and frankly, sealed the fate of many cars they've spent so much time building!
I'd crossed the W140 off the list because of it's size, comparative rarity and the menacing danger of one of the electronic modules going pop (I gather there are around 40 in the car!). The BMW just doesn't compete but it doesn't look or feel as good as the competition. I've been there and done the A8. The Lexus and the Jaguar are now the prime contenders. As an aside, toys aren't especially important. A rear blind is nice, but mainly I just get in and drive with the radio on. No need for cruise control, sat nav etc etc.
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