Lexus LS400 or Jaguar XJ? Barge shootout!
Discussion
ts what racist, bigoted morons thought. Woe betide me if I ever stop outside an ethnic supermarket. The Lexus is the sort of car I'd be tempted to use to shunt the wheelie bin to the end of the driveway, and would kick the doors shut if my hands were full.
That's a hypothetical situation that someone gave me one and I didn't have something else to drive, because I simply cannot imagine handing over money for something so boring.
I'd just realise I was a couple of grand short one day and think I'd been the victim of fraud - then I'd remember I'd bought a Lexus.
I'd rather be an old man than Alan Partridge.
That's a hypothetical situation that someone gave me one and I didn't have something else to drive, because I simply cannot imagine handing over money for something so boring.
I'd just realise I was a couple of grand short one day and think I'd been the victim of fraud - then I'd remember I'd bought a Lexus.
I'd rather be an old man than Alan Partridge.
jamieduff1981 said:
The Lexus is the sort of car I'd be tempted to use to shunt the wheelie bin to the end of the driveway, and would kick the doors shut if my hands were full.
That's a hypothetical situation that someone gave me one and I didn't have something else to drive, because I simply cannot imagine handing over money for something so boring.
I'd just realise I was a couple of grand short one day and think I'd been the victim of fraud - then I'd remember I'd bought a Lexus.
I'd rather be an old man than Alan Partridge.
FFS, we're talking about barges here, and not even sporty ones a'la XJR, M5, E55, S8, etc. A non R XJ isn't 'exciting' in the least bit. I was looking at 3.2s for a while thinking that they'd scratch the itch for a XJR, then got to drive a 4.0 through work and was far from won over in the 'excitement' states. They'll shift unremarkably, ride well and be a nice place to sit... A bit like the Lexus really...That's a hypothetical situation that someone gave me one and I didn't have something else to drive, because I simply cannot imagine handing over money for something so boring.
I'd just realise I was a couple of grand short one day and think I'd been the victim of fraud - then I'd remember I'd bought a Lexus.
I'd rather be an old man than Alan Partridge.
I find this 'charm' argument utterly redundant when we are talking about cars that by definition are a bit boring in the grand scheme of things.
The Jaguar looks stunning inside and out but its the spec that lets it down for me a bit personally. Lots of things that are standard in the Lexus were an option in the Jag, and usually not ticked. Lots got thrown into late 01-02 cars, but even then they aren't very special if you like your gadgets, so personally I'm holding off until the X350s (in R flavour of course) go consistently south of ~£5k.
Edited by JoshyS on Friday 11th July 21:17
V8Driver said:
Neither are a patch on your D2 A8, buy another A8.
See reasons above for why I won't buy another A8! It has to be the LS400 or the XJ, as both cars really speak to me. I propose to see about having a go in a Jaguar when I come to buy to see if I am won over. But the Lexus has got me.Even if it were down to badge appeal, I find both Lexus and Jaguar more appealing than a German badge. But it's not, it's simply about the car and the ownership proposition.
I don't find them just boring old barges either, they're mechanical marvels. I'll let biking slake my thirst for performance.
I never really get why a LS is "boring" compared to contemporaries.
A 7-Series, S-Class, A8, XJ or whatever is a mass produced car made by a large corporation to make money. The LS at least has the history behind it as it was one person's goal to prove that the Japanese could match and beat anything Europe could do and chucked billions and 15 years into it. That at least makes it interesting. I suppose the Phaeton has a similar history behind it.
If you have even the remotest appreciation of engineering and design than an LS is a fascinating car to take to bits a little bit. It is engineered in a logical way using a standard of parts you just do not see on mass produced cars (including, I might add, later LS). I suppose a swiss watch which just has 12 number and a very basic design is boring, but it does the job, and is made in a way you have to have a particular mind to appreciate.
We're not talking hand designed, hand crafted odd balls here but mass produced corporate cars all round.
A 7-Series, S-Class, A8, XJ or whatever is a mass produced car made by a large corporation to make money. The LS at least has the history behind it as it was one person's goal to prove that the Japanese could match and beat anything Europe could do and chucked billions and 15 years into it. That at least makes it interesting. I suppose the Phaeton has a similar history behind it.
If you have even the remotest appreciation of engineering and design than an LS is a fascinating car to take to bits a little bit. It is engineered in a logical way using a standard of parts you just do not see on mass produced cars (including, I might add, later LS). I suppose a swiss watch which just has 12 number and a very basic design is boring, but it does the job, and is made in a way you have to have a particular mind to appreciate.
We're not talking hand designed, hand crafted odd balls here but mass produced corporate cars all round.
Edited by confused_buyer on Friday 11th July 23:55
I'm wondering how many people accusing the Lexus of being boring have actually driven one. There's something wonderful about owning a car that you absolutely know for sure will start and arrive at your destination every time it's asked to do so. It's quite something when a 20 year old car, full of technology, that can now be bought for peanuts, is still regarded as one of the most reliable vehicles ever built, despite all of the supposed advances in the automotive world. The Germans still haven't caught up!
There's nothing more boring than being stuck at the side of the road, waiting for a recovery vehicle to arrive, the Lexus is possibly the least likely vehicle I can think of to present you with that scenario.
There's nothing more boring than being stuck at the side of the road, waiting for a recovery vehicle to arrive, the Lexus is possibly the least likely vehicle I can think of to present you with that scenario.
Lexus. The LS400 is similar to the W124 in that it's lack of character IS it's character. Somebody likened it to a butler - which is pretty spot on. They are not wholly reliable at this age but they have the unbreakable reputation for a reason. Also - did you ever play Streetfighter 2? If you did, you may see why gentle appreciation from a good LS400 is not an unreasonable expectation.
JoshyS said:
The Jaguar looks stunning inside and out but its the spec that lets it down for me a bit personally. Lots of things that are standard in the Lexus were an option in the Jag, and usually not ticked. Lots got thrown into late 01-02 cars, but even then they aren't very special if you like your gadgets,
Which options in the Jag do you mean?Edited by JoshyS on Friday 11th July 21:17
W124 said:
Lexus. The LS400 is similar to the W124 in that it's lack of character IS it's character.
Having owned an LS400 and a few 124's I very much disagree. The 124 is a very characterful car and a polar opposite to the Lexus in feel and build. The older Mercedes were unnecessarily heavy, everything had a real thud and the interiors were beautifully designed and thought through. The Lexus does not have the OTT build, closing the door feels like in does on any other car. The effort was solely put under the bonnet and making every component work as smoothly as possible - the rest did the job. The leather is like plastic and design very generic. The Lexus though is in a different league of refinement, and even more reliable - hence the W140 was delayed for so long.
Both great pieces of engineering but very different.
Heaveho said:
There's nothing more boring than being stuck at the side of the road, waiting for a recovery vehicle to arrive, the Lexus is possibly the least likely vehicle I can think of to present you with that scenario.
I did actually break down in my LS when the water pump packed up on the motorway. They are very reliable cars but still prone to general components wearing out and breaking as with any car (i.e water pumps, alternators, power steering leaks etc). They obviously still need maintenance to work reliably.I probably would not buy another LS400 because I'm not sure they offer enough in return for the sheer quantity of fuel consumed. 5-10 years ago they made a lot more sense. If I were to gorge through so much petrol I would want to make use of it, a BMW 840CI or R129 500SL would give you so much more experience
Edited by SuperHangOn on Saturday 12th July 10:35
SuperHangOn said:
Both great pieces of engineering but very different.
A Lexus engineer in 1985 would probably have been sacked for making a door feel heavy to close because they'd have taken the view that customers shouldn't have to strain to open a door. They'd have then spent $100m engineering said door to be as light as possible but still last as long as possible. A Mercedes engineer would have worked out exactly how strong the door needed to be then added 50% to be absolutely sure not caring that it now cost 50% more to build.
A Jaguar engineer would have had a budget of £1.25 so would simply have had to use a door they had lying around from 1978.
Of course both cars are now old and eventually wear out - but there are still a lot of both of them about in the world (Mercs not so much in UK but having 2nd lives elsewhere) compared to most 20-30 year old cars.
SuperHangOn said:
I did actually break down in my LS when the water pump packed up on the motorway. They are very reliable cars but still prone to general components wearing out and breaking as with any car (i.e water pumps, alternators, power steering leaks etc). They obviously still need maintenance to work reliably.
I probably would not buy another LS400 because I'm not sure they offer enough in return for the sheer quantity of fuel consumed. 5-10 years ago they made a lot more sense. If I were to gorge through so much petrol I would want to make use of it, a BMW 840CI or R129 500SL would give you so much more experience
Bugger, I'm off to kill myself. The world's on it's ass when people start posting up about Lexii breaking down!I probably would not buy another LS400 because I'm not sure they offer enough in return for the sheer quantity of fuel consumed. 5-10 years ago they made a lot more sense. If I were to gorge through so much petrol I would want to make use of it, a BMW 840CI or R129 500SL would give you so much more experience
Edited by SuperHangOn on Saturday 12th July 10:35
confused_buyer said:
SuperHangOn said:
Both great pieces of engineering but very different.
A Lexus engineer in 1985 would probably have been sacked for making a door feel heavy to close because they'd have taken the view that customers shouldn't have to strain to open a door. They'd have then spent $100m engineering said door to be as light as possible but still last as long as possible. A Mercedes engineer would have worked out exactly how strong the door needed to be then added 50% to be absolutely sure not caring that it now cost 50% more to build.
Hence the difference in Modern Mercs vs Lexus is even greater.....
Ecurie Ecosse said:
Really? The XJR always beat the S8 in contemporary road tests.
Didn't realise it was the XJR, thought we were talking about a normal XJ.The D2 A8 was massively over engineered. The interior is like granite, so solid, full aluminium build which at the ages we're talking about won't rust, four wheel drive and 300BHP from the early 4.2's, Audi had a point to prove with the car, that they could make a car as good as the 7 series and S Class, you only have to sit in an D2 A8 and then an XJ and LS, S Class whatever, and everything in comparison feels cheap IMHO.
Baryonyx said:
See reasons above for why I won't buy another A8! It has to be the LS400 or the XJ, as both cars really speak to me. I propose to see about having a go in a Jaguar when I come to buy to see if I am won over. But the Lexus has got me.
Even if it were down to badge appeal, I find both Lexus and Jaguar more appealing than a German badge. But it's not, it's simply about the car and the ownership proposition.
I don't find them just boring old barges either, they're mechanical marvels. I'll let biking slake my thirst for performance.
Your old A8 was a beauty, to be fair, and I see your point. The Jags have problems with their gearboxes, too, I believe, my friend's dad is a Jag specialist and he is always swapping out ZF transmissions on XJ's. (Probably the same unit as in the A8 to be fair.)Even if it were down to badge appeal, I find both Lexus and Jaguar more appealing than a German badge. But it's not, it's simply about the car and the ownership proposition.
I don't find them just boring old barges either, they're mechanical marvels. I'll let biking slake my thirst for performance.
The only other luxobarge I would consider is a nice 740 or 750, are they a no-go?
V8Driver said:
Ecurie Ecosse said:
Really? The XJR always beat the S8 in contemporary road tests.
Didn't realise it was the XJR, thought we were talking about a normal XJ.The D2 A8 was massively over engineered. The interior is like granite, so solid, full aluminium build which at the ages we're talking about won't rust, four wheel drive and 300BHP from the early 4.2's, Audi had a point to prove with the car, that they could make a car as good as the 7 series and S Class, you only have to sit in an D2 A8 and then an XJ and LS, S Class whatever, and everything in comparison feels cheap IMHO.
Baryonyx said:
See reasons above for why I won't buy another A8! It has to be the LS400 or the XJ, as both cars really speak to me. I propose to see about having a go in a Jaguar when I come to buy to see if I am won over. But the Lexus has got me.
Even if it were down to badge appeal, I find both Lexus and Jaguar more appealing than a German badge. But it's not, it's simply about the car and the ownership proposition.
I don't find them just boring old barges either, they're mechanical marvels. I'll let biking slake my thirst for performance.
Your old A8 was a beauty, to be fair, and I see your point. The Jags have problems with their gearboxes, too, I believe, my friend's dad is a Jag specialist and he is always swapping out ZF transmissions on XJ's. (Probably the same unit as in the A8 to be fair.)Even if it were down to badge appeal, I find both Lexus and Jaguar more appealing than a German badge. But it's not, it's simply about the car and the ownership proposition.
I don't find them just boring old barges either, they're mechanical marvels. I'll let biking slake my thirst for performance.
The only other luxobarge I would consider is a nice 740 or 750, are they a no-go?
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