EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
survivalist said:
tamore said:
survivalist said:
I the UK at least the market does seem to have changed much this year. New or used.
Agree on general correction, but EV depreciation still seems very high. Most aggressive lease and PCP deals have been on EVs and there are a large number of pre-reg BEVs at high discounts.
Will continue as long as new car registrations for EVs lag behind the ZEV mandate.
As new BEV prices are discounted further (due to a lack of demand) used prices will continue to suffer and (back to the OPs point) as a result used car dealers will be reluctant to trade in something that has an unpredictable future value.
no more silly porsche/ merc models are needed,. it's all about the r5, spring, ec3 and the wave of chinese cars on the way that will make the difference. not PH driving god type vehicles, but A to B average Joe/Joanne mobiles Agree on general correction, but EV depreciation still seems very high. Most aggressive lease and PCP deals have been on EVs and there are a large number of pre-reg BEVs at high discounts.
Will continue as long as new car registrations for EVs lag behind the ZEV mandate.
As new BEV prices are discounted further (due to a lack of demand) used prices will continue to suffer and (back to the OPs point) as a result used car dealers will be reluctant to trade in something that has an unpredictable future value.
Citroen had a 1.6% market share in 2023, some even if every car they sold from now on was an EV it still wouldn’t make a huge difference. Despite some very cheap deals, BYD and GWM seem to be struggling to find buyers. The flood of cheap Chinese EVs seems to be challenged by supply chain (dealers, spares etc) and the threat of tarrifs.
The R5 might be different if it lives up to expectations from a price and driving experience perspective.
There are 40m adults in the U.K. and around 36m cars. That's our 'consumer' universe.
If we look at EVs and the ZEV Mandate then we have 2m new units per annum of which just 20% need to be EV, so 400,000.
400k is just 1% of the consumer demographic.
So in incredibly simplistic terms we only need the tiniest minority of the consumer market to have a vague interest in EVs or see a personal financial advantage to acquiring one over an ICE.
We could also look at the used market for EVs. That's now about 1m vehicles. In the U.K. we buy something like 6 or 8m used cars per annum but a very small number will be from that 1m cluster of EVs so again it's a tiny, tiny percentage of consumers.
The key is that it really doesn't matter what the govt wants, what anyone says or how much marketing of EVs there are the entire process is completely and utterly governed by the total rate at which we purchase new cars which is a constant 5% of fleet in the U.K., the EU and the US. It stunningly constant across time and markets. Even with the ZEV ratchet to 2035 it simply cannot ever be the kind of rapid transition some appear to be suspecting, wishing or fearing.
And at the rate of change/improvement in EV manufacturing costs and usability it does seem likely that the price tipping point and therefore the appearance of true, non subsidy related, product demand will appear ahead of 2035.
And while we wait we just have to carry in enjoying silly ICE cars.
ACCYSTAN said:
Is there any aftermarket companies who can upgrade an electric car battery?
My mate has an electric Vauxhall vivaro van, it’s 3 years old and in summer does 90 miles, winter 70 miles at best!
The battery has degraded but he doesn’t want the same battery again, the range when it was new wasn’t much better,
Is there a firm who can upgrade the battery, software, charger, etc that improve the vehicles range performance?
Yes, these guys specialise in Leafs, but you could try giving them a call. Maybe the internal modules can be swapped.My mate has an electric Vauxhall vivaro van, it’s 3 years old and in summer does 90 miles, winter 70 miles at best!
The battery has degraded but he doesn’t want the same battery again, the range when it was new wasn’t much better,
Is there a firm who can upgrade the battery, software, charger, etc that improve the vehicles range performance?
https://www.cleevelyev.co.uk/battery-upgrades/
M4cruiser said:
Yes, these guys specialise in Leafs, but you could try giving them a call. Maybe the internal modules can be swapped.
https://www.cleevelyev.co.uk/battery-upgrades/
£12,000 for a new battery fitted ...... no thankshttps://www.cleevelyev.co.uk/battery-upgrades/
MightyBadger said:
If anyone has an EX30 this might be useful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCfuZYBMRGk
It won't play because my Internet is rubbish. What's the TLDR? One of the guys at work had one delivered last week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCfuZYBMRGk
stevemcs said:
M4cruiser said:
Yes, these guys specialise in Leafs, but you could try giving them a call. Maybe the internal modules can be swapped.
https://www.cleevelyev.co.uk/battery-upgrades/
£12,000 for a new battery fitted ...... no thankshttps://www.cleevelyev.co.uk/battery-upgrades/
It's another issue just solved by time. The other aspect to consider is that when the battery is replaced it'll be with more modern cells potentially will will require a new BMS system or program for it etc.
It's important to reach that point where the battery usability expires as the rest of the car does and the whole box can be sent off for recycling. Another aspect simply resolved by time.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/volvo-...
Removed from configurator, new version due in a few days. Some owners have been refunded and their cars returned. Basic problem massive software issues.
Removed from configurator, new version due in a few days. Some owners have been refunded and their cars returned. Basic problem massive software issues.
Tindersticks said:
He claims the EX30 has been removed from sale. Is that actually true?
According to Autocar a new version is going to be available to order from 8th July so it’s temporarily been taken off the configurator. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/volvo-...
FiF said:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/volvo-...
Removed from configurator, new version due in a few days. Some owners have been refunded and their cars returned. Basic problem massive software issues.
“ The firm insists the EV remains on sale, with examples currently in dealer stock available and customers able to go to a dealer and pre-select an MY2025 version”Removed from configurator, new version due in a few days. Some owners have been refunded and their cars returned. Basic problem massive software issues.
Clear as mud then.
FiF said:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/volvo-...
Removed from configurator, new version due in a few days. Some owners have been refunded and their cars returned. Basic problem massive software issues.
But nothing to do with it being an EV. Our ICE XC60 has had loads of issues with software/ central screen crashing so no audio, nav, HVAC, trip info. Dealer keeps saying there’s a software update ‘soon’.Removed from configurator, new version due in a few days. Some owners have been refunded and their cars returned. Basic problem massive software issues.
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. Not really cost effective as there's no volume or real industry. Half the time they would be shipping the battery pack overseas etc.
It's another issue just solved by time. The other aspect to consider is that when the battery is replaced it'll be with more modern cells potentially will will require a new BMS system or program for it etc.
It's important to reach that point where the battery usability expires as the rest of the car does and the whole box can be sent off for recycling. Another aspect simply resolved by time.
The OP seems to be wanting to swap the battery for a larger one not because of degradation but mainly because the range wasn't ever enough for their needs in the first place. It's another issue just solved by time. The other aspect to consider is that when the battery is replaced it'll be with more modern cells potentially will will require a new BMS system or program for it etc.
It's important to reach that point where the battery usability expires as the rest of the car does and the whole box can be sent off for recycling. Another aspect simply resolved by time.
I'm not sure there will ever be huge demand for this sort of service. I mean, once upon a time if you bought a 520d and decided what you really wanted/needed was a 545i you don't go looking for an engine swap. You sell the 520d and buy a 545i. I'm not sure this is much different with EVs.
soxboy said:
FiF said:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/volvo-...
Removed from configurator, new version due in a few days. Some owners have been refunded and their cars returned. Basic problem massive software issues.
But nothing to do with it being an EV. Our ICE XC60 has had loads of issues with software/ central screen crashing so no audio, nav, HVAC, trip info. Dealer keeps saying there’s a software update ‘soon’.Removed from configurator, new version due in a few days. Some owners have been refunded and their cars returned. Basic problem massive software issues.
It got such good reviews as an EV though some very strong criticism of the excessive use of touchscreen for control of functions. Those issues caused some Autocar testers to reduce the rating from very good to "do not buy".
Certainly appears that Volvo have got something very wrong with the UI in their cars regardless of drive type.
At least nobody in this thread is driving or riding one of these.
https://youtu.be/YMKpCiDomgM?si=kptBagczeJOWWrkE
https://youtu.be/YMKpCiDomgM?si=kptBagczeJOWWrkE
MightyBadger said:
At least nobody in this thread is driving or riding one of these.
https://youtu.be/YMKpCiDomgM?si=kptBagczeJOWWrkE
And now the reality, less than 1% of car fires are EVs.https://youtu.be/YMKpCiDomgM?si=kptBagczeJOWWrkE
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/the-latest-car-fire-s...
It also says...
Electric vehicles are 20 times less likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles.
Edited by Olivergt on Saturday 6th July 22:17
soxboy said:
FiF said:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/volvo-...
Removed from configurator, new version due in a few days. Some owners have been refunded and their cars returned. Basic problem massive software issues.
But nothing to do with it being an EV. Our ICE XC60 has had loads of issues with software/ central screen crashing so no audio, nav, HVAC, trip info. Dealer keeps saying there’s a software update ‘soon’.Removed from configurator, new version due in a few days. Some owners have been refunded and their cars returned. Basic problem massive software issues.
As ive said before, we have now brought IT people into car design. With the inevitable outcome.
monkfish1 said:
Correct. Just piss poor development.
As ive said before, we have now brought IT people into car design. With the inevitable outcome.
so how do a 'technology first, car second' outfit like tesla get it so right?As ive said before, we have now brought IT people into car design. With the inevitable outcome.
to compare, my EV is stellantis. absolutely awful from a technology perspective.
tamore said:
so how do a 'technology first, car second' outfit like tesla get it so right?
to compare, my EV is stellantis. absolutely awful from a technology perspective.
Probably because they are software designers first and not car designers. It’s why the technology works but they look awful and have no switches and buttons to operate anything. Tesla would be better off selling the infrastructure and batteries to manufacturers and leaving the car building to others.to compare, my EV is stellantis. absolutely awful from a technology perspective.
tamore said:
monkfish1 said:
Correct. Just piss poor development.
As ive said before, we have now brought IT people into car design. With the inevitable outcome.
so how do a 'technology first, car second' outfit like tesla get it so right?As ive said before, we have now brought IT people into car design. With the inevitable outcome.
to compare, my EV is stellantis. absolutely awful from a technology perspective.
but, clearly, there are good software people. Just that they seem to be very rare.
Everyone these days, just pushes out half finished products, be it cars, phones or any product.
I struggle to see why its so difficult. Just test it before you sell it. I presume they write the software, press enter and go home.
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