EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Jimjimhim said:
otolith said:
Jimjimhim said:
This all seems like a very sensible view of the 2 power types. I think a future with both is our best bet, but the government seem to be pushing just 1 type.
But you understand why they don't see ICE as part of a viable future, right?otolith said:
Jimjimhim said:
otolith said:
Jimjimhim said:
This all seems like a very sensible view of the 2 power types. I think a future with both is our best bet, but the government seem to be pushing just 1 type.
But you understand why they don't see ICE as part of a viable future, right?otolith said:
I'm sure you do. They burn fossil fuels. That produces carbon dioxide. They do not believe that continuing to do that is sustainable.
For every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air......https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/#:~:te...
Edited by MightyBadger on Thursday 4th July 14:32
TheRainMaker said:
plfrench said:
I’ve remembered this time that this thread isn’t about no one wanting EVs, but June’s registration figures are out - steadily going upwards now - 19%, so very nearly 1 in every 5 cars sold were BEV. Pretty strong numbers.
The numbers are terrible. Year to date, we are at 16.6%, a massive 0.5% rise over last year.The people wanting a car and looking to spend under ten grand would probably mostly choose electric if the price was right.
The current 'carrot' approach of tax bribes to choose EV is perhaps not working?
'Stick' incoming?
MightyBadger said:
otolith said:
I'm sure you do. They burn fossil fuels. That produces carbon dioxide. They do not believe that continuing to do that is sustainable.
For every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air......https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/#:~:te...
Edited by MightyBadger on Thursday 4th July 14:32
OutInTheShed said:
TheRainMaker said:
plfrench said:
I’ve remembered this time that this thread isn’t about no one wanting EVs, but June’s registration figures are out - steadily going upwards now - 19%, so very nearly 1 in every 5 cars sold were BEV. Pretty strong numbers.
The numbers are terrible. Year to date, we are at 16.6%, a massive 0.5% rise over last year.The people wanting a car and looking to spend under ten grand would probably mostly choose electric if the price was right.
The current 'carrot' approach of tax bribes to choose EV is perhaps not working?
'Stick' incoming?
MightyBadger said:
For every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air......
https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/#:~:te...
You know when I endlessly quote and link to lifetime carbon footprint studies for EVs?https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/#:~:te...
Well all of that is included.
I'm guessing you may think that the amount of lithium in each car is 'loads' right.
It's not.
That 1 ton of lithium is spread over many tens of cars, possibly hundreds and is a 'once only' thing for the first 15 years of the car's life.
Assuming the battery lasts the life of the car of course, which is looking like a fair call.
When you then recover 95% of the lithium at the end of the 15 years, which has already been demonstrated, processing it into a second battery releases significantly less CO2 the second time around.
Or you redeploy the battery elsewhere in a static application.
A single ICE releases 15 tons of CO2 around every 5 years, purely from the fuel it burns.
plfrench said:
OutInTheShed said:
TheRainMaker said:
plfrench said:
I’ve remembered this time that this thread isn’t about no one wanting EVs, but June’s registration figures are out - steadily going upwards now - 19%, so very nearly 1 in every 5 cars sold were BEV. Pretty strong numbers.
The numbers are terrible. Year to date, we are at 16.6%, a massive 0.5% rise over last year.The people wanting a car and looking to spend under ten grand would probably mostly choose electric if the price was right.
The current 'carrot' approach of tax bribes to choose EV is perhaps not working?
'Stick' incoming?
Monkeylegend said:
survivalist said:
Putting a tank of petrol in an ICE car isn’t a horrific chore and plunging in the EV isn’t a big issue either.
Depends where you plunge I suppose, deep water or a cliff could be a big problem.Surv's right though. When punters reduce themselves to be frightened of plugs and handles then one must accept we're just watching old biddies slinging handbags outside the bingo hall.
Oilchange said:
CO2 is good for the planet though, hasn't been this green for thousands of years and we're just working our way out of a CO2 famine.
Gosh this is such important information, have you emailed the IPCC to let them know?I’m sure it’s not too late.
Or post it on X, that’s where all the real hardcore science is published I believe.
Oilchange said:
CO2 is good for the planet though, hasn't been this green for thousands of years and we're just working our way out of a CO2 famine.
CO2 is great for the planet. Super high levels give us beautiful big ferns. The downside is that it doesn't give you humans to enjoy them. We have had much higher CO2 levels tens of millions of years ago but these conditions aren't ideal for human existence. The entire evolution of the human species from small mammalian survivors of 65m BC has come about as a function of low levels of CO2.
It's also worth noting that the historic level changes take thousands to tens of millions of years whereas we have created a very rapid near doubling in just 200. That means major balancers such as the oceans haven't had anywhere near enough time to get to work.
One must also recognise that when climates change, animals migrate. Humans are no different. However, humans have erected legal boundaries and borders which means these migrations will be countered by warfare which I really do think we should have all have had enough of by now and not being so silly as to risk continuing doing things that are going to create even more conflict.
None of this is about 'saving the planet' the planet will be just fine. It's just about mitigating the turmoil to humans on it.
It's also rather important to not forget that we live on a small island that sits off the northern edge of a major Asian peninsula and we have an artificially warm climate thanks to the Gulf Stream that brings warm water up from equatorial South America. The risks of climate change changing the Gulf Stream as happens when the oceans warm are obviously reasonably terminal for the U.K. so we do have a vested interest in not exacerbating the issue. And as a very affluent nation with a small landmass that is covered in an electricity network already, switching to EV is an absolute piece of piss that no one is going to have any trouble doing but some will need to copy slightly smarter neighbours to see how to do it.
But what is brilliant about the U.K. is the fact that net zero is easy for us and an absolute nightmare for our competitors. We're at the starting line of a marathon and everyone else is in a wheelchair, wearing a rhino suit or carrying a fridge. So even if it's all b
ks we very obviously want the race to go ahead as we're guaranteed winners. There's no downside for us, it is literally a win win. 
MightyBadger said:
otolith said:
I'm sure you do. They burn fossil fuels. That produces carbon dioxide. They do not believe that continuing to do that is sustainable.
For every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air......https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/#:~:te...
The question of how many cars is opaque, because people seem to quote very different numbers for the quantity of lithium in the battery. I suspect that the larger numbers are the mass of the lithium salt in the batteries (LiPF6), or in the extracted lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) used to make it and the smaller ones the actual mass of lithium.
Also, your 15 tonnes figure. Earth.org got it from climate.mit.edu who got it from a BBC article who got it from PR puff from Vulcan Zero Carbon Lithium who got it from the consultancy Minviro. It is 15 tonnes of CO2 per tonne of lithium hydroxide and that figure is for hard rock mining only. The figure they quote for brine extraction is 5 tonnes, and the figure for Vulcan's process is zero tonnes. It's not clear whether those figures are for anhydrous LiOH or the monohydrate LiOH.H2O.
Anyway, Vulcan's investor presentation does the maths, and puts the CO2 output for building an EV from lithium production at 675kg if it's hard rock mining (therefore 225kg if it's from brine). So that is the equivalent of 64 gallons of petrol for hard rock or 21 gallons for brine. Set that against being used for several hundred thousand miles of motoring on renewable energy in the first car, and then recycling for reuse in future cars.
https://www.investi.com.au/api/announcements/vul/b...
Jimjimhim said:
otolith said:
Jimjimhim said:
I'm sure that I don't.
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