EVs... no one wants them!

[Jimjimhim]

otolith said:

Jimjimhim said:

This all seems like a very sensible view of the 2 power types. I think a future with both is our best bet, but the government seem to be pushing just 1 type.

But you understand why they don't see ICE as part of a viable future, right?

No not really.

[TheRainMaker]

plfrench said:

I’ve remembered this time that this thread isn’t about no one wanting EVs, but June’s registration figures are out - steadily going upwards now - 19%, so very nearly 1 in every 5 cars sold were BEV. Pretty strong numbers.

The numbers are terrible. Year to date, we are at 16.6%, a massive 0.5% rise over last year.

[FiF]

plfrench said:

I’ve remembered this time that this thread isn’t about no one wanting EVs, but June’s registration figures are out - steadily going upwards now - 19%, so very nearly 1 in every 5 cars sold were BEV. Pretty strong numbers.

True, particularly when you consider that the first half of 2024 is showing that if continued will show the strongest post pandemic sales since 2019.

The 1.1% increase in June was down to increase in fleet sales against the 9th consecutive month of decline in private sales.

For pure EVs the increase was totally fleet, private sales down by 10.8% vs June23.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/uk-cou...

[otolith]

Jimjimhim said:

otolith said:

Jimjimhim said:

This all seems like a very sensible view of the 2 power types. I think a future with both is our best bet, but the government seem to be pushing just 1 type.

But you understand why they don't see ICE as part of a viable future, right?

No not really.

I'm sure you do. They burn fossil fuels. That produces carbon dioxide. They do not believe that continuing to do that is sustainable.

[Jimjimhim]

otolith said:

Jimjimhim said:

otolith said:

Jimjimhim said:

This all seems like a very sensible view of the 2 power types. I think a future with both is our best bet, but the government seem to be pushing just 1 type.

But you understand why they don't see ICE as part of a viable future, right?

No not really.

I'm sure you do. They burn fossil fuels. That produces carbon dioxide. They do not believe that continuing to do that is sustainable.

I'm sure that I don't.

[MightyBadger]

otolith said:

I'm sure you do. They burn fossil fuels. That produces carbon dioxide. They do not believe that continuing to do that is sustainable.

For every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air......

https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/#:~:te...

Edited by MightyBadger on Thursday 4th July 14:32

[otolith]

Jimjimhim said:

I'm sure that I don't.

You must have been living under a rock for 20 years if you haven't heard about this.

[OutInTheShed]

TheRainMaker said:

plfrench said:

I’ve remembered this time that this thread isn’t about no one wanting EVs, but June’s registration figures are out - steadily going upwards now - 19%, so very nearly 1 in every 5 cars sold were BEV. Pretty strong numbers.

The numbers are terrible. Year to date, we are at 16.6%, a massive 0.5% rise over last year.

I think the problem is, people who want/need a new car and can afford new are not too impressed by saving a few beans on petrol.

The people wanting a car and looking to spend under ten grand would probably mostly choose electric if the price was right.

The current 'carrot' approach of tax bribes to choose EV is perhaps not working?
'Stick' incoming?

[Jimjimhim]

otolith said:

Jimjimhim said:

I'm sure that I don't.

You must have been living under a rock for 20 years if you haven't heard about this.

I've heard all about it.

[Tindersticks]

Jimjimhim said:

I'm sure that I don't.

Are you being deliberately obtuse for a reason?

[740EVTORQUES]

MightyBadger said:

otolith said:

I'm sure you do. They burn fossil fuels. That produces carbon dioxide. They do not believe that continuing to do that is sustainable.

For every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air......

https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/#:~:te...

Edited by MightyBadger on Thursday 4th July 14:32

And once it's mined it's mined and available to be used indefinitely, unlike fossil fuels that are burned once and then gone forever (or at least for another couple of million years or so)

[plfrench]

OutInTheShed said:

TheRainMaker said:

plfrench said:

I’ve remembered this time that this thread isn’t about no one wanting EVs, but June’s registration figures are out - steadily going upwards now - 19%, so very nearly 1 in every 5 cars sold were BEV. Pretty strong numbers.

The numbers are terrible. Year to date, we are at 16.6%, a massive 0.5% rise over last year.

I think the problem is, people who want/need a new car and can afford new are not too impressed by saving a few beans on petrol.

The people wanting a car and looking to spend under ten grand would probably mostly choose electric if the price was right.

The current 'carrot' approach of tax bribes to choose EV is perhaps not working?
'Stick' incoming?

It’s working pretty well really. It doesn’t really matter if no private new sales are EV for a while yet. Performance against ZEV mandate isn’t likely to be too far off by the end of the year I reckon if things carry on with the same trajectory. I’d estimate 18-19%. Certainly not a bad start to quite ambitious targets.

[Oilchange]

CO2 is good for the planet though, hasn't been this green for thousands of years and we're just working our way out of a CO2 famine.

[GT9]

MightyBadger said:

For every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air......

https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/#:~:te...

You know when I endlessly quote and link to lifetime carbon footprint studies for EVs?
Well all of that is included.
I'm guessing you may think that the amount of lithium in each car is 'loads' right.
It's not.
That 1 ton of lithium is spread over many tens of cars, possibly hundreds and is a 'once only' thing for the first 15 years of the car's life.
Assuming the battery lasts the life of the car of course, which is looking like a fair call.
When you then recover 95% of the lithium at the end of the 15 years, which has already been demonstrated, processing it into a second battery releases significantly less CO2 the second time around.
Or you redeploy the battery elsewhere in a static application.
A single ICE releases 15 tons of CO2 around every 5 years, purely from the fuel it burns.

[TheRainMaker]

plfrench said:

OutInTheShed said:

TheRainMaker said:

plfrench said:

I’ve remembered this time that this thread isn’t about no one wanting EVs, but June’s registration figures are out - steadily going upwards now - 19%, so very nearly 1 in every 5 cars sold were BEV. Pretty strong numbers.

The numbers are terrible. Year to date, we are at 16.6%, a massive 0.5% rise over last year.

I think the problem is, people who want/need a new car and can afford new are not too impressed by saving a few beans on petrol.

The people wanting a car and looking to spend under ten grand would probably mostly choose electric if the price was right.

The current 'carrot' approach of tax bribes to choose EV is perhaps not working?
'Stick' incoming?

It’s working pretty well really. It doesn’t really matter if no private new sales are EV for a while yet. Performance against ZEV mandate isn’t likely to be too far off by the end of the year I reckon if things carry on with the same trajectory. I’d estimate 18-19%. Certainly not a bad start to quite ambitious targets.

Something big is going to have to be pulled out of the bag to get close to the ZEV.

[GT9]

Oilchange said:

CO2 is good for the planet though, hasn't been this green for thousands of years and we're just working our way out of a CO2 famine.

I always wondered what became of comical Ali, where are you shacked up these days?

[DonkeyApple]

Monkeylegend said:

survivalist said:

Putting a tank of petrol in an ICE car isn’t a horrific chore and plunging in the EV isn’t a big issue either.

Depends where you plunge I suppose, deep water or a cliff could be a big problem.

Plunging in an EV should be easier as there's no transmission tunnel to cramp stylish moves. Although no gearstick for the finishing flourish.

Surv's right though. When punters reduce themselves to be frightened of plugs and handles then one must accept we're just watching old biddies slinging handbags outside the bingo hall.

[740EVTORQUES]

Oilchange said:

CO2 is good for the planet though, hasn't been this green for thousands of years and we're just working our way out of a CO2 famine.

Gosh this is such important information, have you emailed the IPCC to let them know?

I’m sure it’s not too late.

Or post it on X, that’s where all the real hardcore science is published I believe.

[MightyBadger]

OutInTheShed said:

The people wanting a car and looking to spend under ten grand would probably mostly choose electric if the price was right.

Absolutely not true.

[DonkeyApple]

Oilchange said:

CO2 is good for the planet though, hasn't been this green for thousands of years and we're just working our way out of a CO2 famine.

CO2 is great for the planet. Super high levels give us beautiful big ferns. The downside is that it doesn't give you humans to enjoy them.

We have had much higher CO2 levels tens of millions of years ago but these conditions aren't ideal for human existence. The entire evolution of the human species from small mammalian survivors of 65m BC has come about as a function of low levels of CO2.

It's also worth noting that the historic level changes take thousands to tens of millions of years whereas we have created a very rapid near doubling in just 200. That means major balancers such as the oceans haven't had anywhere near enough time to get to work.

One must also recognise that when climates change, animals migrate. Humans are no different. However, humans have erected legal boundaries and borders which means these migrations will be countered by warfare which I really do think we should have all have had enough of by now and not being so silly as to risk continuing doing things that are going to create even more conflict.

None of this is about 'saving the planet' the planet will be just fine. It's just about mitigating the turmoil to humans on it.

It's also rather important to not forget that we live on a small island that sits off the northern edge of a major Asian peninsula and we have an artificially warm climate thanks to the Gulf Stream that brings warm water up from equatorial South America. The risks of climate change changing the Gulf Stream as happens when the oceans warm are obviously reasonably terminal for the U.K. so we do have a vested interest in not exacerbating the issue. And as a very affluent nation with a small landmass that is covered in an electricity network already, switching to EV is an absolute piece of piss that no one is going to have any trouble doing but some will need to copy slightly smarter neighbours to see how to do it.

But what is brilliant about the U.K. is the fact that net zero is easy for us and an absolute nightmare for our competitors. We're at the starting line of a marathon and everyone else is in a wheelchair, wearing a rhino suit or carrying a fridge. So even if it's all bks we very obviously want the race to go ahead as we're guaranteed winners. There's no downside for us, it is literally a win win.