EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
page3 said:
Times have changed. Our £99 deposit, £129/month Leaf came with both a granny charger and a 7kW podpoint home charger.
I'm guessing that wasn't a brand new Leaf? The old ones would have a granny charger if it came with one when new, and if the previous owner hasn't lost it. And as the previous poster says, the £999 cost of the podpoint is buried in there somewhere.Jk89 said:
EV’s only work for older, retired people.
90% of plug in hybrids are a joke including the one I had for 3 years.
30 mile electric range is actually 10 miles.
Takes 6 hours to charge for 10 miles.
Ridiculous.
ICE is going nowhere.
That's ideal for me. I'm only 37 and my EV works better than any ICE car I've had. Glad to hear I can now retire 30 years early.90% of plug in hybrids are a joke including the one I had for 3 years.
30 mile electric range is actually 10 miles.
Takes 6 hours to charge for 10 miles.
Ridiculous.
ICE is going nowhere.
Plug in hybrids are generally worse than an EV at being electric but worse than an ICE at being ICE. They are a compromise from both sides.
On my full EV, 6 hours charge at home would get me about 125 real world miles and it's far from the best in terms of efficiency.
wevster said:
Where is the infrastructure for Hydrogen?
Sorry to mention, but so long as the EV market doesn't go into a long term lull - meaning that until the interest in it [EV's] dies down and just becomes part of all the other vehicle types on the market, hydrogen won't be put on the market as a major part of the vehicle industry, because it will damage the pockets of those in it for the money.Remember when we were told that everyone should be driving a diesel car because it is better for the environment, and once people were fully hooked and it was widespread, they turned around and said no, actually petrol is better, but electric is the best?
Just wait, they'll do something similar with hydrogen.
That's their way of balancing the market, so that there will always be fresh sale possibilities.
The same with technology companies, and basically any other industry around.
People think that when - say Apple- brings out a new smartphone with new tech, they just 'discovered' it and are quickly rolling it out to the world. Not at all, they have the tech lined up for years before, and slowly drip-drop release it to the public, instead of coming out one day with a brand new phone totally revamped containing every piece of new tech they have and then after they don't have anything left in their arsenal to keep up production because it is already out there, they slowly release it, same here.
The tech for hydrogen, electric and others have been around for ages, but they weren't interested because they were still making heavy money off the older types, so they were not interested to destroy it by bringing out something "revolutionary"....
tamore said:
Wagonwheel555 said:
Jeez, after problems charging on the way there we tried the Ionity ones again on the way back figuring we were just unlucky. Same thing happened, started to charge then stopped after 2%! The gridserve ones were all in use
Fine, maybe the Ionity ones don’t like the Cupra, maybe it’s a software bug or compatibility issue.
Came home and figured I would try the one at Morrisons up the road considering we haven’t actually had a successful public charge yet despite doing almost 2k miles from
Home charging without issue.
These were GeniePoint, after 10 mins of downloading the app, registering, adding card details, this kept throwing up an error!!!
Kinda lost faith in the public charging really, think we will stick to the diesel for any journey we suspect we might need a charge to make it there and back.
Maybe it’s just bad luck but three times suggests it’s really not reliable enough to actually rely on it.
i'd be raising this with the dealer. could be a problem with the onboard charger.Fine, maybe the Ionity ones don’t like the Cupra, maybe it’s a software bug or compatibility issue.
Came home and figured I would try the one at Morrisons up the road considering we haven’t actually had a successful public charge yet despite doing almost 2k miles from
Home charging without issue.
These were GeniePoint, after 10 mins of downloading the app, registering, adding card details, this kept throwing up an error!!!
Kinda lost faith in the public charging really, think we will stick to the diesel for any journey we suspect we might need a charge to make it there and back.
Maybe it’s just bad luck but three times suggests it’s really not reliable enough to actually rely on it.
Actually, The last one I used was Osprey and there was an issue… not with the charging, that went fine, but with them actually taking payment. There was a £45 per-auth which showed on the credit card I used, but that cleared off in the normal way and wasn’t replaced with an actual payment that I could see!
t again?GT9 said:
Hydrogen's already been released, it failed, 'they' pulled the plug.
Sorry you missed the whole thing, it was a blast.
Pun intended.
I never said it wasn't released, look at what I wrote instead of scanning for ignorant picks.Sorry you missed the whole thing, it was a blast.
Pun intended.
In fact, I acknowledged that it was revealed long ago, and in fact was invented on paper around a hundred years ago, but climate change was not a religion yet at the time, and therefore the oil cartels were not interested in it.
Now that that is the trend, it was revealed as a failure, it wasn't revealed and then turned out to be a failure, rather it's portrayal from its revealing was in a light that portrayed it as a failure, which guaranteed that the ones making the money whether from the oil directly (i.e. petrol diesel) or indirectly (i.e. "ethical" electricity), can remain money making undisturbed, with not a care in the world about pollution.
This is not about climate change denial, it is about why they were not interested until now, because they do not mean our good, it all comes down to money.
driveaway said:
I never said it wasn't released, look at what I wrote instead of scanning for ignorant picks.
In fact, I acknowledged that it was revealed long ago, and in fact was invented on paper around a hundred years ago, but climate change was not a religion yet at the time, and therefore the oil cartels were not interested in it.
Now that that is the trend, it was revealed as a failure, it wasn't revealed and then turned out to be a failure, rather it's portrayal from its revealing was in a light that portrayed it as a failure, which guaranteed that the ones making the money whether from the oil directly (i.e. petrol diesel) or indirectly (i.e. "ethical" electricity), can remain money making undisturbed, with not a care in the world about pollution.
This is not about climate change denial, it is about why they were not interested until now, because they do not mean our good, it all comes down to money.
unfortunately, pesky old physics is a bit of an arse for hydrogen passenger vehicles, and probably hydrogen in everything except extreme edge use cases.In fact, I acknowledged that it was revealed long ago, and in fact was invented on paper around a hundred years ago, but climate change was not a religion yet at the time, and therefore the oil cartels were not interested in it.
Now that that is the trend, it was revealed as a failure, it wasn't revealed and then turned out to be a failure, rather it's portrayal from its revealing was in a light that portrayed it as a failure, which guaranteed that the ones making the money whether from the oil directly (i.e. petrol diesel) or indirectly (i.e. "ethical" electricity), can remain money making undisturbed, with not a care in the world about pollution.
This is not about climate change denial, it is about why they were not interested until now, because they do not mean our good, it all comes down to money.
even more of an arse are all the colours of hydrogen apart from green. and that aint coming in any significant volume for a long time, and even if it did, industrial processes would be at the front of the queue for use way before moving any kind of vehicle about.
M4cruiser said:
page3 said:
Times have changed. Our £99 deposit, £129/month Leaf came with both a granny charger and a 7kW podpoint home charger.
I'm guessing that wasn't a brand new Leaf? The old ones would have a granny charger if it came with one when new, and if the previous owner hasn't lost it. And as the previous poster says, the £999 cost of the podpoint is buried in there somewhere.driveaway said:
I never said it wasn't released, look at what I wrote instead of scanning for ignorant picks.
In fact, I acknowledged that it was revealed long ago, and in fact was invented on paper around a hundred years ago, but climate change was not a religion yet at the time, and therefore the oil cartels were not interested in it.
Now that that is the trend, it was revealed as a failure, it wasn't revealed and then turned out to be a failure, rather it's portrayal from its revealing was in a light that portrayed it as a failure, which guaranteed that the ones making the money whether from the oil directly (i.e. petrol diesel) or indirectly (i.e. "ethical" electricity), can remain money making undisturbed, with not a care in the world about pollution.
This is not about climate change denial, it is about why they were not interested until now, because they do not mean our good, it all comes down to money.
Hydrogen, and I mean, proper, renewable, green hydrogen doesn't exist in the UK. In fact, I acknowledged that it was revealed long ago, and in fact was invented on paper around a hundred years ago, but climate change was not a religion yet at the time, and therefore the oil cartels were not interested in it.
Now that that is the trend, it was revealed as a failure, it wasn't revealed and then turned out to be a failure, rather it's portrayal from its revealing was in a light that portrayed it as a failure, which guaranteed that the ones making the money whether from the oil directly (i.e. petrol diesel) or indirectly (i.e. "ethical" electricity), can remain money making undisturbed, with not a care in the world about pollution.
This is not about climate change denial, it is about why they were not interested until now, because they do not mean our good, it all comes down to money.
It doesn't exist now and it wont exist in sufficient quantities for decades.
By sufficient quantities, I mean enough green hydrogen to decarbonise existing consumers, enough to supply the sectors where batteries are more problematic and enough to touch the sides on a sector as large as passenger cars.
Blue hydrogen hasn't got a hope in hell of demonstrating low carbon sustainability, firstly because it obviously isn't sustainable and secondly because the whole CCS thing would be a lot cheaper and easier to do straight from the atmosphere.
And then we don't need any hydrogen, or any batteries, we just keep burning petrol...
For hydrogen to be of any use to cars it has to be green hydrogen.
Yet green hydrogen consumes electricity at three times the rate of EVs for the same number of cars.
So where are all the extra wind turbines to cope with that, over and above what EVs require?
Where are all the electrolysers to turn all that extra electricity into hydrogen?
That's right, they don't exist.
They don't exist because no-one is going to pay for them to be built and installed.
And no-one is going to pay to operate them.
Your dream is built on sand, I genuinely don't think you have any idea about the actual amount of extra electricity that is required and the number of electrolysers required.
The only reason anyone would ever try to combine green hydrogen and cars, would be if you absolutely have no other choice.
You would never do it otherwise, because the cost, both upfront and ongoing, is colossal.
We don't fit into that group now, and we wont ever be in that group.
So yes, it does come down to money, money we don't have, and money we don't even need to spend.
Let's say I'm wrong though, and we magic up some means of supplying cheap and plentiful renewable electricity and hundreds of thousands of electrolysers fall out of the sky.
Next problem.
The hydrogen tanks in the cars.
Each car consumes up to 100 kg of high grade carbon fibre composites.
The present day global capacity for carbon fibre is 100,000 metric tons.
So even if every fibre anywhere in the world was dedicated to hydrogen passenger cars, that's about 1 million cars per annum.
Maybe a bit more.
1 million cars globally, about 1-2% of new cars.
Are they ALL coming to the UK?
And guess what, it means no more composite aircraft, no more composite F1 cars, no more composite fishing rods, no more drones, no more skis, etc, etc.
Oh, and no more wind turbines...
Absolutely brilliant, a plan only Baldrick would be proud of.
I note that prices of Cupra Borns seem to have stabilised somewhat at c.£20k entry point.
cptsideways said:
Though the CCS Comms protocols is standard many brands seem to struggle with the concept. The problem always occur at the plugging in stage or SOC/kWh input, so you either get a no go like above or you get a very slow charge or none at all. Ipace is a common offender and lots of VW offerings.
Of course the number of dudd chargers is a massive issue too especially when the might be one at the location.
David Twohig (Inside the Machine) gives a really interesting run-down of the challenges of this when developing the Zoe. Basically the car has to be really careful about any leakage current, since it could potentially be 'leaking' to earth via a person, which would be bad. So it has to abort the charge if it detects any current leakage, however this safety mechanism can also suffer a false positive due to various kinds of electromagnetic interference, poor ground on the charger, phase offsets etc. So making an EV which reliably charges at all public chargers, but also reliably stops charging if a person's being electrocuted, is hard.Of course the number of dudd chargers is a massive issue too especially when the might be one at the location.
In my e-C4 I've had one aborted public charge out of eight, I just moved to the next charger in the bank and plugged in and it then charged fine. I was on 10% battery so probably pulling near the maximum current. So it's not been a big issue for me.
Ironically I'm looking to change it for a Born sometime in the next 12 months, not if they won't charge reliably though!
GT9 said:
driveaway said:
I never said it wasn't released, look at what I wrote instead of scanning for ignorant picks.
In fact, I acknowledged that it was revealed long ago, and in fact was invented on paper around a hundred years ago, but climate change was not a religion yet at the time, and therefore the oil cartels were not interested in it.
Now that that is the trend, it was revealed as a failure, it wasn't revealed and then turned out to be a failure, rather it's portrayal from its revealing was in a light that portrayed it as a failure, which guaranteed that the ones making the money whether from the oil directly (i.e. petrol diesel) or indirectly (i.e. "ethical" electricity), can remain money making undisturbed, with not a care in the world about pollution.
This is not about climate change denial, it is about why they were not interested until now, because they do not mean our good, it all comes down to money.
Hydrogen, and I mean, proper, renewable, green hydrogen doesn't exist in the UK. In fact, I acknowledged that it was revealed long ago, and in fact was invented on paper around a hundred years ago, but climate change was not a religion yet at the time, and therefore the oil cartels were not interested in it.
Now that that is the trend, it was revealed as a failure, it wasn't revealed and then turned out to be a failure, rather it's portrayal from its revealing was in a light that portrayed it as a failure, which guaranteed that the ones making the money whether from the oil directly (i.e. petrol diesel) or indirectly (i.e. "ethical" electricity), can remain money making undisturbed, with not a care in the world about pollution.
This is not about climate change denial, it is about why they were not interested until now, because they do not mean our good, it all comes down to money.
It doesn't exist now and it wont exist in sufficient quantities for decades.
By sufficient quantities, I mean enough green hydrogen to decarbonise existing consumers, enough to supply the sectors where batteries are more problematic and enough to touch the sides on a sector as large as passenger cars.
Blue hydrogen hasn't got a hope in hell of demonstrating low carbon sustainability, firstly because it obviously isn't sustainable and secondly because the whole CCS thing would be a lot cheaper and easier to do straight from the atmosphere.
And then we don't need any hydrogen, or any batteries, we just keep burning petrol...
For hydrogen to be of any use to cars it has to be green hydrogen.
Yet green hydrogen consumes electricity at three times the rate of EVs for the same number of cars.
So where are all the extra wind turbines to cope with that, over and above what EVs require?
Where are all the electrolysers to turn all that extra electricity into hydrogen?
That's right, they don't exist.
They don't exist because no-one is going to pay for them to be built and installed.
And no-one is going to pay to operate them.
Your dream is built on sand, I genuinely don't think you have any idea about the actual amount of extra electricity that is required and the number of electrolysers required.
The only reason anyone would ever try to combine green hydrogen and cars, would be if you absolutely have no other choice.
You would never do it otherwise, because the cost, both upfront and ongoing, is colossal.
We don't fit into that group now, and we wont ever be in that group.
So yes, it does come down to money, money we don't have, and money we don't even need to spend.
Let's say I'm wrong though, and we magic up some means of supplying cheap and plentiful renewable electricity and hundreds of thousands of electrolysers fall out of the sky.
Next problem.
The hydrogen tanks in the cars.
Each car consumes up to 100 kg of high grade carbon fibre composites.
The present day global capacity for carbon fibre is 100,000 metric tons.
So even if every fibre anywhere in the world was dedicated to hydrogen passenger cars, that's about 1 million cars per annum.
Maybe a bit more.
1 million cars globally, about 1-2% of new cars.
Are they ALL coming to the UK?
And guess what, it means no more composite aircraft, no more composite F1 cars, no more composite fishing rods, no more drones, no more skis, etc, etc.
Oh, and no more wind turbines...
Absolutely brilliant, a plan only Baldrick would be proud of.
Jk89 said:
EV’s only work for older, retired people.
90% of plug in hybrids are a joke including the one I had for 3 years.
30 mile electric range is actually 10 miles.
Takes 6 hours to charge for 10 miles.
Ridiculous.
ICE is going nowhere.
What about all the people who aren't old and retired that have them? How about the taxi drivers that use then?90% of plug in hybrids are a joke including the one I had for 3 years.
30 mile electric range is actually 10 miles.
Takes 6 hours to charge for 10 miles.
Ridiculous.
ICE is going nowhere.
When I ordered a Model 3 I was doing 30-40000 miles a year.
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