EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
cidered77 said:
Having sold previous family car near as dammit exactly 2 years from purchasing it used, for the first time I figured i would do a proper "true cost of ownership", then see how it compares with the MY24 Polestar 2 LRDM on BIK that replaces it.
It was a fully loaded ex-dealer principle Volvo V90 D5 Inscription, 2017. Bought outright for £24,795, sold on Motorway for £18,001. Did 33,562 miles in 2 years (i reset the computer before driving off the forecourt!), serviced it twice at Volvo at great expense, it did 41.5 mpg, cost about £370 to insure, had to spend on two tyres, a service battery, and a door strap, and had one year of the extra tax because of original purchase price.
Chuck every penny of that into a spreadsheet, and it's £16,423. Or - £684.28 per month, £2.04 per mile. If i normalise that to the 12k per year we have the new car for - it's £616.63 per month. This car did more miles than the BIK deal - but last job required it, and new job does not.
Polestar 2 is £503 per month. Assuming efficiency at 3.5 Kwh/mile, and charging at home 99% of the time on Octopus Go (so let's say 10p per Kwh to account for rare public charge), and total cost for 12k miles is £531.57 per month. With a much higher degree of certainty.
However you see tax incentives here is irrelevant - they are a thing, so make hay while the sun shines, etc
In my case, I've swapped a car that cost ~£46k when new but was 5 years old when i bought it for almost half that for a near 50k brand new car, and it's costing objectively less, without any doubt.
And to repeat a point oft made here... it's just transport. It's just a family car - it doesn't ride as well, but it's so so much more refined and relaxing in the traffic jams most of us spend a lot of time in. Whooo cares about the turbodiesel it replaces? Nobody experiences the "thrill of driving" for 95% of the boring miles we all do every day.
My example was just a used car bought in cash, make the ICE car newer, more expensive, and on finance - and the gap to BiK gets even bigger. If you have means to charge, a BIK option, and don't regularly drive more than 250 miles without stopping for a poo, then why wouldn't you?
Isn't the Polestar 2 a smaller and cheaper car than the V90 and one step below in cabin quality? It makes sense that regardless of powertrain you can always swap an expensive used car for a cheaper new car and keep roughly the same financial outlayIt was a fully loaded ex-dealer principle Volvo V90 D5 Inscription, 2017. Bought outright for £24,795, sold on Motorway for £18,001. Did 33,562 miles in 2 years (i reset the computer before driving off the forecourt!), serviced it twice at Volvo at great expense, it did 41.5 mpg, cost about £370 to insure, had to spend on two tyres, a service battery, and a door strap, and had one year of the extra tax because of original purchase price.
Chuck every penny of that into a spreadsheet, and it's £16,423. Or - £684.28 per month, £2.04 per mile. If i normalise that to the 12k per year we have the new car for - it's £616.63 per month. This car did more miles than the BIK deal - but last job required it, and new job does not.
Polestar 2 is £503 per month. Assuming efficiency at 3.5 Kwh/mile, and charging at home 99% of the time on Octopus Go (so let's say 10p per Kwh to account for rare public charge), and total cost for 12k miles is £531.57 per month. With a much higher degree of certainty.
However you see tax incentives here is irrelevant - they are a thing, so make hay while the sun shines, etc
In my case, I've swapped a car that cost ~£46k when new but was 5 years old when i bought it for almost half that for a near 50k brand new car, and it's costing objectively less, without any doubt.
And to repeat a point oft made here... it's just transport. It's just a family car - it doesn't ride as well, but it's so so much more refined and relaxing in the traffic jams most of us spend a lot of time in. Whooo cares about the turbodiesel it replaces? Nobody experiences the "thrill of driving" for 95% of the boring miles we all do every day.
My example was just a used car bought in cash, make the ICE car newer, more expensive, and on finance - and the gap to BiK gets even bigger. If you have means to charge, a BIK option, and don't regularly drive more than 250 miles without stopping for a poo, then why wouldn't you?
MightyBadger said:
Holy cr@p that is some monthly outgoing on getting from a to b.
Add it up, like *all* of it … depreciation and all the other bills, and i won’t be too far off the majority here. Running a 5 year old car you got used for 25k isn’t exactly powerfully built company director territory !!
PinkHouse said:
Isn't the Polestar 2 a smaller and cheaper car than the V90 and one step below in cabin quality? It makes sense that regardless of powertrain you can always swap an expensive used car for a cheaper new car and keep roughly the same financial outlay
yes and no...Cabin quality in both is superb, even if packaging is better in the V90.
Both has similar purchase prices when new, although in the 5 years since Volvo massively inflated the V90 price before discontinuing.
It's smaller, but with the hatchback can still handle the PH-favourite of the tip run way better than the Ioniq 6 had for a few months as a sort of EV trial.
But it doesn't really matter - those figures for economy, maintenance and depreciation won't be too far away if the car I got out of was something else.... point is for me, it *was* a valid alternative. Old car met needs: new car meets needs. If old car was say a used £25k Quashqai i suspect it would still be more expensive...
Edited by cidered77 on Wednesday 26th June 16:15
MightyBadger said:
barryrs said:
I know somebody who works there.Out of all the millions of EVs on the road how many are powered by Cornish lithium?
Deepwater horizon killed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of animals and 11 people directly, all on the back of an error of judgement.
Dead dolphins, turtles, birds, fish, the environmental damage is still very apparent 14 year later.
The impact on the mental and physical health of the survivors, the clean-up crew and people in the local community that have had their livelihoods affected is still being assessed, and involves a much, much, larger group of people.
An appalling amount of human and natural suffering.
Your turn.
cidered77 said:
...
Add it up, like *all* of it … depreciation and all the other bills, and i won’t be too far off the majority here.
....
IMO so few people do this. I was doing my annual sales pitch to persuade my brother to get an EV and he wouldn't accept what his current car actually costs to "run", when you consider everything.Add it up, like *all* of it … depreciation and all the other bills, and i won’t be too far off the majority here.
....
Thought I'd share another real world experience here.
I'm away from home, and had to deal with the horror of public charging in a city today. I needed to do a quick top-up so that we'd make the trip home tomorrow without stopping.
I checked my Electroverse app for faster chargers that were free, and spotted one in a supermarket car park on a high street. Sadly this charger was 'only' 50kW, and 89p per kWh.
I turned up, parked (for free) in the spot, tapped my Electroverse card on the Shell charger and plugged the car in. Less than 2 minutes from entering the car park and I'm heading to the high street to pick up some bits that I needed.
30 minutes later, having picked up everything I needed, I got back to the car, unplugged and drove away having added over 100 miles for a smidge over 20 quid. At current petrol prices (150p/l), that's equivalent to about 35mpg.
Thankfully having to endure such rip-off horror experiences are rare with home charging, but I just about made it out alive here.
I'm away from home, and had to deal with the horror of public charging in a city today. I needed to do a quick top-up so that we'd make the trip home tomorrow without stopping.
I checked my Electroverse app for faster chargers that were free, and spotted one in a supermarket car park on a high street. Sadly this charger was 'only' 50kW, and 89p per kWh.
I turned up, parked (for free) in the spot, tapped my Electroverse card on the Shell charger and plugged the car in. Less than 2 minutes from entering the car park and I'm heading to the high street to pick up some bits that I needed.
30 minutes later, having picked up everything I needed, I got back to the car, unplugged and drove away having added over 100 miles for a smidge over 20 quid. At current petrol prices (150p/l), that's equivalent to about 35mpg.
Thankfully having to endure such rip-off horror experiences are rare with home charging, but I just about made it out alive here.
GT9 said:
MightyBadger said:
barryrs said:
I know somebody who works there.Out of all the millions of EVs on the road how many are powered by Cornish lithium?
Deepwater horizon killed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of animals and 11 people directly, all on the back of an error of judgement.
Dead dolphins, turtles, birds, fish, the environmental damage is still very apparent 14 year later.
The impact on the mental and physical health of the survivors, the clean-up crew and people in the local community that have had their livelihoods affected is still being assessed, and involves a much, much, larger group of people.
An appalling amount of human and natural suffering.
Your turn.
Which are small fry compared to the oil fires in the 1991 Gulf War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_spill#Largest_oi...
braddo said:
GT9 said:
MightyBadger said:
barryrs said:
I know somebody who works there.Out of all the millions of EVs on the road how many are powered by Cornish lithium?
Deepwater horizon killed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of animals and 11 people directly, all on the back of an error of judgement.
Dead dolphins, turtles, birds, fish, the environmental damage is still very apparent 14 year later.
The impact on the mental and physical health of the survivors, the clean-up crew and people in the local community that have had their livelihoods affected is still being assessed, and involves a much, much, larger group of people.
An appalling amount of human and natural suffering.
Your turn.
Which are small fry compared to the oil fires in the 1991 Gulf War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_spill#Largest_oi...
MightyBadger said:
Bloody hell just stop oil have joined the chat, I'm humbled by your presence - I marvel at how you live your lives using no plastic products or anything that uses oil whatsoever. Please don't throw orange paint at me as I come in peace.
C'mon badger, the point of my post was to highlight that selectively moaning about one technology whilst studiously ignoring the downsides of the other is a crock.GT9 said:
C'mon badger, the point of my post was to highlight that selectively moaning about one technology whilst studiously ignoring the downsides of the other is a crock.
I have never ever denied the downsides of oil, that would be silly. It's ok to post a lithium video in an EV thread, it's on topic and what powers your chosen mode of transport.
Not sure where I moaned?
Apologies anyway.
MightyBadger said:
I have never ever denied the downsides of oil, that would be silly.
It's ok to post a lithium video in an EV thread, it's on topic and what powers your chosen mode of transport.
Not sure where I moaned?
Apologies anyway.
I will apologise too, I overreacted, crappy day.It's ok to post a lithium video in an EV thread, it's on topic and what powers your chosen mode of transport.
Not sure where I moaned?
Apologies anyway.
Have a good evening.
We're currently on holiday in Falmouth, drove down there from west Cumbria in shock horror my polestar 2 smlr. Stopped overnight at parents in bath on the way down, car made it there with a 10 minute top up at frankerly whilst heading for the loo.
Charged to 85% at cribbs causeway, topped off at Penhale to cover local mileage whilst down here, will top off there or Launceston to get me back to cribbs, then trentham before getting home Sunday.
I've subscribed to Tesla, public high speed charging has been between 33p and 44p reliable (apart from eastville being shut down Saturday) but I could see it was out in the app & rerouted. The car is set to only offer me public superchargers. It's been a breeze.
Charged to 85% at cribbs causeway, topped off at Penhale to cover local mileage whilst down here, will top off there or Launceston to get me back to cribbs, then trentham before getting home Sunday.
I've subscribed to Tesla, public high speed charging has been between 33p and 44p reliable (apart from eastville being shut down Saturday) but I could see it was out in the app & rerouted. The car is set to only offer me public superchargers. It's been a breeze.
plfrench said:
Yes, but remember, neither of you actually want one. It says so in the title.
Easy to be smug. But the numbers still broadly support the OPs allegation.New EV sales are struggling to get anywhere close to the ZEV mandate and lack of secondhand sales are contributing to some pretty high levels of depreciation.
The number of people actually new EVs are vanishingly small, even compared to people buying new cars in general.
That said, our EV is great for local trips. Doesn’t make financial sense compare to a small ICE though,
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/25/va...
Seems like Vauxhall is finding it hard to sell EVs so looking for a way out or some moneys from Government. Wonder if the others will follow.
I'm not a fan of any Vauxhall EV but previous generations were half decent.
Seems like Vauxhall is finding it hard to sell EVs so looking for a way out or some moneys from Government. Wonder if the others will follow.
I'm not a fan of any Vauxhall EV but previous generations were half decent.
Dave200 said:
Tindersticks said:
M4cruiser said:
I like my car to look like a car. Not like the box it came in.
Current fleet - Toyota Avensis Auto FTFYI assume that’s an ironic garage.
It will be a dark day for car enthusiasts when we're no longer able to buy a Toyota Avensis.
Remember that I grew up in the days when (nearly) every car was a "three-box" shape. So that's a "car" to me. Yup, the 4-door saloon, or a hatch that doesn't look like an estate car.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff