EVs... no one wants them!

[Dave200]

otolith said:

Dave200 said:

Desiderata said:

Dave200 said:

confused_buyer said:

DonkeyApple said:

To all intents and purpose those old Leafs are luxury mobility scooters. A means to trundle to the corner shop or bookmakers without the social embarrassment of the pavement EV.

I've been shedding an old LEAF for the last few months. I might do a write up on it. It's actually an extremely useful thing to have around and gets vastly more use than I ever imagined. Obviously they are not for everyone but if you can accommodate an extra car and can charge it they are a very useful 2nd or 3rd car to have having around.

Couldn't agree more. If I was just in need of a city car and had a driveway spot, I'd run one on a 3-pin socket for maximum frugality.

I've been considering one for exactly these reasons. We've got a nice family car for long trips, an MX5 for fun. And something cheap to trundle down to the shops a couple of times a week. I think an old Leaf would do the trundle quite well and very cheaply.
Silly question, but could I charge it up overnight at 7p per unit then use the stored electricity during the day to run my household? It would be cheaper than a Tesla powerwall with the added advantage of having a spare occasional use car.

You wouldn't be able to return the stored electricity to your house during the day. You'd need a battery (the kind that typically goes with solar panels) and a controller/inverter installed in your house to do that.

I went with solar a few years back. My house is currently running entirely from batteries charged at overnight rate (two of us WFH, washing machine on), while the Tesla charges for free direct from the solar panels. It's liberating.

I believe that current Leaf models can do exactly what he's asking for (V2H), but that old ones can't.

You're right, of course. I didn't mention that as the conversation seemed to be about the older cars.

[confused_buyer]

MightyBadger said:

Does it though? Which cars and how?

All I can say is the step off from stationary up to 30ish is really quite rapid - as it is in most EVs. I've annoyed a few people in Porsche Boxsters in it (though not Taycans!). They probably weren't trying. My "normal" car is a Jag XF 3.0d S and the LEAF tends to feel faster, and certainly smoother, off the line than that. In fact I much prefer the EV around town.

I'm not saying a Mk 1 LEAF is a fast car - it isn't - but like all EVs you just plant your foot and they are off from a standstill and are quick in an urban environment. No delay, no silly messing about with gears, instant torque. The 0-60 is rubbish but the 0-30 is very good.

You can drive a LEAF like an ordinary car. It'll happily cruise along at 70. It's not just what it is really designed for.

Edited by confused_buyer on Tuesday 25th June 13:03

Edited by confused_buyer on Tuesday 25th June 13:08

[MightyBadger]

lost in espace said:

I had 2 a 24 and a 30kwh, they are very quick up to 40mph. Unlike my MG ZS and e:ng1 which can't get the power down and the car restricts how quickly you get off the line together with wheel slip, the Leaf flew off the traffic lights. Zero lag as well.

I sold my 30kwh at 80k miles, the battery was degrading badly and it would just lose power if you got under 10% with no warning. I suspect the 30 is a far worse buy than the 24 for the battery chemistry. We also had issues charging it more than twice on a long journey at a rapid due to rapidgate.

Was curious to what 'exotics' they are destroying at the lights as the 0-60 of the old leaf doesn't really seem earth shattering?

[DonkeyApple]

otolith said:

Dave200 said:

Desiderata said:

Dave200 said:

confused_buyer said:

DonkeyApple said:

To all intents and purpose those old Leafs are luxury mobility scooters. A means to trundle to the corner shop or bookmakers without the social embarrassment of the pavement EV.

I've been shedding an old LEAF for the last few months. I might do a write up on it. It's actually an extremely useful thing to have around and gets vastly more use than I ever imagined. Obviously they are not for everyone but if you can accommodate an extra car and can charge it they are a very useful 2nd or 3rd car to have having around.

Couldn't agree more. If I was just in need of a city car and had a driveway spot, I'd run one on a 3-pin socket for maximum frugality.

I've been considering one for exactly these reasons. We've got a nice family car for long trips, an MX5 for fun. And something cheap to trundle down to the shops a couple of times a week. I think an old Leaf would do the trundle quite well and very cheaply.
Silly question, but could I charge it up overnight at 7p per unit then use the stored electricity during the day to run my household? It would be cheaper than a Tesla powerwall with the added advantage of having a spare occasional use car.

You wouldn't be able to return the stored electricity to your house during the day. You'd need a battery (the kind that typically goes with solar panels) and a controller/inverter installed in your house to do that.

I went with solar a few years back. My house is currently running entirely from batteries charged at overnight rate (two of us WFH, washing machine on), while the Tesla charges for free direct from the solar panels. It's liberating.

I believe that current Leaf models can do exactly what he's asking for (V2H), but that old ones can't.

The other solution is to convert a classic car. In other words have ones house battery in the garage but instead of just bolted to the wall and doing nothing, have it bolted to something on wheels which can be used for fun.

[confused_buyer]

MightyBadger said:

Was curious to what 'exotics' they are destroying at the lights as the 0-60 of the old leaf doesn't really seem earth shattering?

It's not the 0-60. It is the 0-20 or 0-30. No one is saying they are ultimately fast cars but they are pretty rapid where it counts in urban environments.

[DonkeyApple]

Dave200 said:

You wouldn't be able to return the stored electricity to your house during the day. You'd need a battery (the kind that typically goes with solar panels) and a controller/inverter installed in your house to do that.

I went with solar a few years back. My house is currently running entirely from batteries charged at overnight rate (two of us WFH, washing machine on), while the Tesla charges for free direct from the solar panels. It's liberating.

It's important to note that solar isn't free though.

[FiF]

DonkeyApple said:

Dave200 said:

You wouldn't be able to return the stored electricity to your house during the day. You'd need a battery (the kind that typically goes with solar panels) and a controller/inverter installed in your house to do that.

I went with solar a few years back. My house is currently running entirely from batteries charged at overnight rate (two of us WFH, washing machine on), while the Tesla charges for free direct from the solar panels. It's liberating.

It's important to note that solar isn't free though.

Depending on setup and attitudes not emotionally free. Colleague of my daughter commutes daily a 75 mile round trip in a Leaf, also solar panels and battery storage.

Personally think they're trying too hard to avoid buying anything over the grid, but when charging for employees was free it worked well. Full charge during the day, sufficient to do the commute home and back next morning, though there were a few squeaky winter mornings aiui. Home ran OK on that setup.

The free charging has ceased, now 79p/kWh, not to mention an overstay charge of a tenner a go, the Leaf charging is therefore at home. Apparently constant arguments about "you can't do that because..." based on insufficient available stored energy.

Obvious ways to deal with it, again none of them are free of cost in one way or another.

[GeniusOfLove]

That just sounds like mithering fusspots rather than any intrinsic shortcoming of EVs?

They probaby used to fuss about using a petrol station that was 1p a litre more than one at the other end of the commute.

[Oilchange]

Interesting point, how much did the solar system cost to install?

[FiF]

GeniusOfLove said:

That just sounds like mithering fusspots rather than any intrinsic shortcoming of EVs?

They probaby used to fuss about using a petrol station that was 1p a litre more than one at the other end of the commute.

I agree it's a barmy approach. The real point was that made by DA that charging from solar is not free , there are investment costs and in the case described also cost to family harmony because they, or maybe only one of them(?) is imho being silly beyond reason.

Yet frequently the only argument presented focuses solely on variable costs of fuel vs charge, it's more complicated than that.

[otolith]

If you would otherwise be flogging it to the grid, there's a cost of using it.

[Olivergt]

Oilchange said:

Interesting point, how much did the solar system cost to install?

I can give you euro (Ireland) figures.

We had a 7kw (6.72) system installed just over 3 months ago, roughtly €6500 afetr governement grants (€2300).

No battery, and the grants are now lower!

When we were looking to install, we worked out our yearly energy usage was about 4500KwH.

So far, since middle of March we have generated 2300KwH, so we are more than likely going to generate more than we use over the year.

Managed to get a good deal on the Buy Back Rate, which is only 2-3c less than we have to pay when we need to draw from the grid.

Overall, we are probably looking at 6-7 yrs to break even. Given that there is a minimum 10 yr gaurantee on everything that was installed (I think the panels are 15?, and it is the inverter that is 10), we should be ok.

The pay back period coincides with about when we will retire, so hopefully, when we retire our electric bill will be pretty much 0, which will be nice.

Caveat: You do need the money to make the upfront investment, although, it would probably also make sense to borrow the money? We also have no intention of moving from where we live, so it was installed for us, but I'm sure it hasn't devalued the house.

[romft123]

DonkeyApple said:

Dave200 said:

You wouldn't be able to return the stored electricity to your house during the day. You'd need a battery (the kind that typically goes with solar panels) and a controller/inverter installed in your house to do that.

I went with solar a few years back. My house is currently running entirely from batteries charged at overnight rate (two of us WFH, washing machine on), while the Tesla charges for free direct from the solar panels. It's liberating.

It's important to note that solar isn't free though.

depends on your interpretation of what free is.

[tamore]

romft123 said:

DonkeyApple said:

Dave200 said:

You wouldn't be able to return the stored electricity to your house during the day. You'd need a battery (the kind that typically goes with solar panels) and a controller/inverter installed in your house to do that.

I went with solar a few years back. My house is currently running entirely from batteries charged at overnight rate (two of us WFH, washing machine on), while the Tesla charges for free direct from the solar panels. It's liberating.

It's important to note that solar isn't free though.

depends on your interpretation of what free is.

and if it's paid for itself, it kind of is.

[DonkeyApple]

otolith said:

If you would otherwise be flogging it to the grid, there's a cost of using it.

That and capex etc. The reality is that it is years before the actual unit cost can be ascertained but it's not free.

The zero capex approach of discount night recharging takes an awful lot to beat and it's quite possibly not possible to.

[Olivergt]

DonkeyApple said:

otolith said:

If you would otherwise be flogging it to the grid, there's a cost of using it.

That and capex etc. The reality is that it is years before the actual unit cost can be ascertained but it's not free.

The zero capex approach of discount night recharging takes an awful lot to beat and it's quite possibly not possible to.

I woiuld agree it's not free, but having your own solar panels is significantly cheaper than buying your electricity from the grid.

As you say though, the unit cost is quite difficult to calculate and you need at least 1 year of solar data to work with, otherwise you are just guessing.

Given the capex, over the short term, it is very expensive, but as I have mentioned above, I'm hoping my capex will be repaid in about 6-7 yrs at which point my unit cost won't be much different to having just bought electricity from the grid. But from this point on my unit cost will be reducing and if you go forwards another 6-7 years my average unit cost will be about 50% of what it would have cost buying from the grid. Remember as well, that this does not take into account any increases in the unit cost, which effectively reduce my overall per unit cost quicker.

[740EVTORQUES]

Just had a power cut in Surrey, 1st time in years.

Having 10kWh of fully charged batteries in the attic plus another 50kWh in the car with a V2L adaptor was nice.

Although it didn’t go on for long I symbolically made a cup of tea with a kettle plugged into the EV6 GT

[Dave200]

740EVTORQUES said:

Just had a power cut in Surrey, 1st time in years.

Having 10kWh of fully charged batteries in the attic plus another 50kWh in the car with a V2L adaptor was nice.

Although it didn’t go on for long I symbolically made a cup of tea with a kettle plugged into the EV6 GT

Battery storage is an absolute godsend for power cuts.

[DonkeyApple]

tamore said:

romft123 said:

DonkeyApple said:

Dave200 said:

You wouldn't be able to return the stored electricity to your house during the day. You'd need a battery (the kind that typically goes with solar panels) and a controller/inverter installed in your house to do that.

I went with solar a few years back. My house is currently running entirely from batteries charged at overnight rate (two of us WFH, washing machine on), while the Tesla charges for free direct from the solar panels. It's liberating.

It's important to note that solar isn't free though.

depends on your interpretation of what free is.

and if it's paid for itself, it kind of is.

Depends how n what one's interpretation of 'paid for itself' is.

[ruggedscotty]

confused_buyer said:

MightyBadger said:

Was curious to what 'exotics' they are destroying at the lights as the 0-60 of the old leaf doesn't really seem earth shattering?

It's not the 0-60. It is the 0-20 or 0-30. No one is saying they are ultimately fast cars but they are pretty rapid where it counts in urban environments.

had a leaf suprise me in a 2.5 six pot 200hp Z4 - it was a lot faster off of the mark than I had thought... plus the guy smiling after it didnt help. yeah bit its not an inline six it sounds siht and cant drop the roof yadda yadda... it was quick though gave me a suprise.