EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Brilliant work from Pink this morning.
A wildly inaccurate carbon footprint comparison, no recognition of the error and then a 'fat girl' reference to deflect attention.
And now several pages of part-time climate experts crawling out of the woodwork.
But somehow I'm the paid shill for ecoloons.
A wildly inaccurate carbon footprint comparison, no recognition of the error and then a 'fat girl' reference to deflect attention.
And now several pages of part-time climate experts crawling out of the woodwork.
But somehow I'm the paid shill for ecoloons.
Jimjimhim said:
otolith said:
Jimjimhim said:
This is very true. When they say hotest/we test/coldest since records began, those records don't actually go back very far.
The data sets for historical temperatures go back a lot further than contemporary human records. GT9 said:
Brilliant work from Pink this morning.
A wildly inaccurate carbon footprint comparison, no recognition of the error and then a 'fat girl' reference to deflect attention.
And now several pages of part-time climate experts crawling out of the woodwork.
But somehow I'm the paid shill for ecoloons.
Just catching back up and actually there has not been any refutation, just a load of false figures and assumptions talking about average CO2 per mile rather than the specific trip in question, and I'm sure you'll actually find the fat overweight comment actually came first in reference to the Alpine boss talking about disguising the weight of EVs A wildly inaccurate carbon footprint comparison, no recognition of the error and then a 'fat girl' reference to deflect attention.
And now several pages of part-time climate experts crawling out of the woodwork.
But somehow I'm the paid shill for ecoloons.
PinkHouse said:
Just catching back up and actually there has not been any refutation, just a load of false figures and assumptions talking about average CO2 per mile rather than the specific trip in question, and I'm sure you'll actually find the fat overweight comment actually came first in reference to the Alpine boss talking about disguising the weight of EVs
I think you should read my posts again then.It's really very simple maths, there is no way you can explain how an EV is getting nearly 300 grams of CO2 per mile at 4 miles per kWh, which is what you are claiming.
Unless the grid has a carbon intensity of over 1000 g/kWh...
PinkHouse said:
Just catching back up and actually there has not been any refutation, just a load of false figures and assumptions talking about average CO2 per mile rather than the specific trip in question, and I'm sure you'll actually find the fat overweight comment actually came first in reference to the Alpine boss talking about disguising the weight of EVs
Did you read that back before clicking submit?It makes no sense. Even if you assume the best possible conditions for the diesel and the worst for the EV (sustained medium to high speed driving, no traffic or towns/ cities) which is what the average calculations do, the diesel needs to be doing 100mpg+ to catch the EV.
Your logic is nonsensical I’m afraid, wishful thinking.
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Sunday 23 June 14:18
Jimjimhim said:
Are there any good looking EVs yet? All the ones I can think of are all really rather ugly.
What ICE cars do you find good looking? The aesthetics of a car are largely unrelated to the drivetrain and more a case of currently available EVs following contemporary design language. It's more that most modern cars are ugly as a result of pedestrian and occupant safety, desire for SUV styling and everything being a shade of grey
John87 said:
Jimjimhim said:
Are there any good looking EVs yet? All the ones I can think of are all really rather ugly.
What ICE cars do you find good looking? The aesthetics of a car are largely unrelated to the drivetrain and more a case of currently available EVs following contemporary design language. It's more that most modern cars are ugly as a result of pedestrian and occupant safety, desire for SUV styling and everything being a shade of grey
Jimjimhim said:
Which do you think are good looking? If any that is.
quite like the R5 on the launchpad. don't think the ID3 is a bad looking thing.to be honest i don't give a toss what cars look like these days, i'm more into function. this is s necessity of my job though, and i've done the fun car thing in the past,
PinkHouse said:
GT9 said:
I tried that site you linked to Pink, to get the result of 355 kg CO2 for 2414 km requires a diesel consumption of 90 mpg...
If you watched the video linked above, that's the mpg they achieved Not much to write home about is it. And that’s the best case for the diesel, everything else is far worse by comparison.
tamore said:
Jimjimhim said:
Which do you think are good looking? If any that is.
quite like the R5 on the launchpad. don't think the ID3 is a bad looking thing.to be honest i don't give a toss what cars look like these days, i'm more into function. this is s necessity of my job though, and i've done the fun car thing in the past,
Thats a sad day if you're no longer interested in fun cars.
Jimjimhim said:
tamore said:
Jimjimhim said:
Are there any good looking EVs yet? All the ones I can think of are all really rather ugly.
surely only you can answer that question.Jimjimhim said:
Yeah maybe an EV is the answer, but I would need to put more money in to it if I did, a nice 330e is £14k where as a nice EV is £3-4k more + another £1k if I fitted a wall box.
So they're not all ugly, you just can't afford what you want?740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
Just catching back up and actually there has not been any refutation, just a load of false figures and assumptions talking about average CO2 per mile rather than the specific trip in question, and I'm sure you'll actually find the fat overweight comment actually came first in reference to the Alpine boss talking about disguising the weight of EVs
Did you read that back before clicking submit?It makes no sense. Even if you assume the best possible conditions for the diesel and the worst for the EV (sustained medium to high speed driving, no traffic or towns/ cities) which is what the average calculations do, the diesel needs to be doing 100mpg+ to catch the EV.
Your logic is nonsensical I’m afraid, wishful thinking.
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Sunday 23 June 14:18
VW Passat uses 77 litres of diesel for 1500 miles with a CO2 consumption of 200kg (2.6kg CO2 per litre x 77 litres)
EV uses 429kWh @ 3.5 miles/kWh
or 375kWh @ 4 miles/kWh
German average CO2 intensity in 2023 was 0.385kgCO2/kWh, so in the two EV scenarios above then the total CO2 emissions will be 144kg and 165kg respectively.
These figures are with respect to fuel burnt and electricity generated only. The EV would have the much higher embedded carbon footprint from production and end-of-life disposal and then also the electricity transmission/distribution footprint. The ICE car has a much lower embedded carbon footprint from production and end-of-life recycling, but also has extraction, refining and distribution footprints too.
These have been in total much lower for ICE cars, which is why there is a breakeven point for mileage at which lifecycle CO2 emissions become less than their ICE counterparts, but it depends on the efficiency of the ICE car and the specific grid makeup for a true comparison.
Final thoughts on this 77 litres of diesel would cost £108 and the same trip would cost roughly £300 using motorway rapid chargers which is where the miles were driven.
Jimjimhim said:
tamore said:
Jimjimhim said:
Which do you think are good looking? If any that is.
quite like the R5 on the launchpad. don't think the ID3 is a bad looking thing.to be honest i don't give a toss what cars look like these days, i'm more into function. this is s necessity of my job though, and i've done the fun car thing in the past,
Thats a sad day if you're no longer interested in fun cars.
not so much i'm disinterested in fun cars, but not longer interested in trying to enjoy a fun car on our horrible roads, infested with drivers with inadequate skills. ragging my chimaera around the square mile at the weekend because it was deserted seems a long time ago now. live in the peak district now and the roads look like they've been carpet bombed, always busy, full of slow moving road users and just a bit rubbish. A-B as comfortably and conveniently as can be is the priority now, and always have the dogs in the back so drive accordingly. EV fits the bill perfectly.
happy for my 3 TVRs to be a vivid memory now. times have changed.
PinkHouse said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
Just catching back up and actually there has not been any refutation, just a load of false figures and assumptions talking about average CO2 per mile rather than the specific trip in question, and I'm sure you'll actually find the fat overweight comment actually came first in reference to the Alpine boss talking about disguising the weight of EVs
Did you read that back before clicking submit?It makes no sense. Even if you assume the best possible conditions for the diesel and the worst for the EV (sustained medium to high speed driving, no traffic or towns/ cities) which is what the average calculations do, the diesel needs to be doing 100mpg+ to catch the EV.
Your logic is nonsensical I’m afraid, wishful thinking.
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Sunday 23 June 14:18
VW Passat uses 77 litres of diesel for 1500 miles with a CO2 consumption of 200kg (2.6kg CO2 per litre x 77 litres)
EV uses 429kWh @ 3.5 miles/kWh
or 375kWh @ 4 miles/kWh
German average CO2 intensity in 2023 was 0.385kgCO2/kWh, so in the two EV scenarios above then the total CO2 emissions will be 144kg and 165kg respectively.
These figures are with respect to fuel burnt and electricity generated only. The EV would have the much higher embedded carbon footprint from production and end-of-life disposal and then also the electricity transmission/distribution footprint. The ICE car has a much lower embedded carbon footprint from production and end-of-life recycling, but also has extraction, refining and distribution footprints too.
These have been in total much lower for ICE cars, which is why there is a breakeven point for mileage at which lifecycle CO2 emissions become less than their ICE counterparts, but it depends on the efficiency of the ICE car and the specific grid makeup for a true comparison.
Final thoughts on this 77 litres of diesel would cost £108 and the same trip would cost roughly £300 using motorway rapid chargers which is where the miles were driven.
It’s not a valid comparison.
smn159 said:
Jimjimhim said:
tamore said:
Jimjimhim said:
Are there any good looking EVs yet? All the ones I can think of are all really rather ugly.
surely only you can answer that question.Jimjimhim said:
Yeah maybe an EV is the answer, but I would need to put more money in to it if I did, a nice 330e is £14k where as a nice EV is £3-4k more + another £1k if I fitted a wall box.
So they're not all ugly, you just can't afford what you want?Where have I said that I can't afford to spend more? So are any EVs good looking?
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