EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
For clarity, the EV has less than half the usage phase footprint of the diesel in Germany.
Diesel tailpipe emissions are 200 grams per mile, not 127. 127 is the value per km.
Add on another 60 g/mile for fuel production gives 260 g/mile.
The EV's footprint in Germany is about 100 g/mile or just over.
In the UK it would be closer to 50 g/mile for the EV.
Diesel tailpipe emissions are 200 grams per mile, not 127. 127 is the value per km.
Add on another 60 g/mile for fuel production gives 260 g/mile.
The EV's footprint in Germany is about 100 g/mile or just over.
In the UK it would be closer to 50 g/mile for the EV.
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
I prefer my cars like my ladies, without extra heft... no matter how many head-only selfies they use to disguise it 
Bemoaning the day F1 gave up on grid girls Pink? 
Jimjimhim said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
I prefer my cars like my ladies, without extra heft... no matter how many head-only selfies they use to disguise it
Bemoaning the day F1 gave up on grid girls Pink? 740EVTORQUES said:
Jimjimhim said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
I prefer my cars like my ladies, without extra heft... no matter how many head-only selfies they use to disguise it
Bemoaning the day F1 gave up on grid girls Pink? Jimjimhim said:
740EVTORQUES said:
Jimjimhim said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
I prefer my cars like my ladies, without extra heft... no matter how many head-only selfies they use to disguise it
Bemoaning the day F1 gave up on grid girls Pink? If it makes you feel better to have a joke at other people’s expense then that says a lot about you.
Would you say that in the presence of an overweight female colleague or relative?
740EVTORQUES said:
Jimjimhim said:
740EVTORQUES said:
Jimjimhim said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
I prefer my cars like my ladies, without extra heft... no matter how many head-only selfies they use to disguise it
Bemoaning the day F1 gave up on grid girls Pink? If it makes you feel better to have a joke at other people’s expense then that says a lot about you.
Would you say that in the presence of an overweight female colleague or relative?
740EVTORQUES said:
Normalising derogatory comments because it’s ’just A bit of fun’ and to call it out is ‘woke’ (whatever that actually means)
If it makes you feel better to have a joke at other people’s expense then that says a lot about you.
Would you say that in the presence of an overweight female colleague or relative?
'Are you going to leave any cake for the rest of us?' If it makes you feel better to have a joke at other people’s expense then that says a lot about you.
Would you say that in the presence of an overweight female colleague or relative?
MightyBadger said:
'Who ate all the cakes?'
Were they cooked using fossil fuels or electricity?
CO2 in. Methane out. And a burden on the NHS throughout. Getting them into EVs will be a tiny step in mitigating the damage. Plus, the huge extra weight in the car is less of an issue. Risk is that the vast sums saved on fuel will go into even more cakes. Were they cooked using fossil fuels or electricity?
DonkeyApple said:
PinkHouse said:
Speaking of boring diesels, this is my daily commute, so until an EV can do this then I'm not switching 
Jokes aside, It would be quite interesting to compare the cost in diesel vs rapid charging for the same trip if attempted in an EV but in pure CO2 terms, the diesel is actually emits less over the same distance compared to an EV with a high efficiency of 4 miles per kWh using the average fuel mix of the German grid.
Here are the results
Diesel:
EV @ 4 mi/kWh
The common sense approach would be to allow highly efficient ICE and hybrid cars to coexist with other zero emissions vehicles, especially for more utilitarian purposes and I can bet that's where we end up by 2035
The real difference is that grid electricity is steadily reducing CO2 whereas diesel is fixed where it is. So any comparison is only relevant at that moment in time. And of course this all differs between nations. Germany, like Japan, suffers from having no real natural resources. It's why they both get 'invady' periodically and then end up running out of supplies to maintain that 'invadiness'. When we look at Germany today in terms of energy self sufficiency or migrating to renewables they are, like Japan, pretty fJokes aside, It would be quite interesting to compare the cost in diesel vs rapid charging for the same trip if attempted in an EV but in pure CO2 terms, the diesel is actually emits less over the same distance compared to an EV with a high efficiency of 4 miles per kWh using the average fuel mix of the German grid.
Here are the results
Diesel:
EV @ 4 mi/kWh
The common sense approach would be to allow highly efficient ICE and hybrid cars to coexist with other zero emissions vehicles, especially for more utilitarian purposes and I can bet that's where we end up by 2035
ked. Hence why Germany has spent 20 years trying to expand the EU eastwards as rapidly as possible not just for cheaper labour and more customers but to get resources. But Germany has little coastline and much of its free land is forested so wind renewables are a problem without having the Steppe to hand. Solar is obviously not viable etc and so they are resorting to invading North Africa again and going to South America. 
Flip to us in the U.K. and we have no such issue and we are already in 2024 hitting days regularly when 50%+ of electricity is carbon free.
So while we can find cases where a diesel is creating less CO2 for the U.K. that is something that is evaporating really very quickly. Just consider the growth in U.K. carbon free electricity generation in the 5 years on PH since people first began levelling this argument.
What is actually important in the whole EV debate is that Germany is one of our two peer local competitors. As far as the U.K. economy is concerned the single most important aspect is to maintain economic performance with both France and Germany and ideally surpass them. Energy plays a pivotal role in this, arguably a defining one. Of the three nations the one that can dislocate its economy from the USD dependence and the US control of the global oil economy first wins. The nation with the easiest, cheapest and quickest path to net zero compliant energy sourcing wins. And the one with the least amount of legacy 20th century industry wins.
The U.K. is on that path very clearly. We don't have the legacy 20th industry that will take hundreds of £billions to get to net zero with many just failing and burdening the economy with dreadful unemployment. We dealt with that in the 80s and paid the huge cost through the 90s but during a time when the third world began to develop and become wealthy but needed to buy from the West. We are on a solid path to renewables dominating the energy supply of the U.K. which frees our economy from the toxic shock risk of both oil and gas pricing. But what we also need to do for that economic freedom is slowly exchange petrol for electricity in our transport. It's absolutely essential. We have a chance to free the U.K. economy from being controlled by overseas energy exporters and price controllers.
Just look at the vast volumes of LNG we had to buy from America because Germany had to switch from Russian gas to North Sea gas driving the price from £50 to £700!!!! Look at the amount of debt that the U.K. had to take on to subsidise everyone's energy costs just because of one geopolitical event of two other nations' making.
Now consider all the economic shocks since the 1950s when the price of oil was spiked by foreign nations.
The core purpose of the switch to EVs for the U.K. has sweat FA to do with CO2 in the atmosphere but about freeing our children and grandchildren children from the post war s
tshow of us endlessly having to pay vast sums and incurring massive economic issues as a result of foreign nations out of our control doing things to impact the price of our energy and our transport. In very simple terms, when a Briton has to use a fossil fuel to get to work to earn money and to heat their home then they are someone else's b
h. The irony being that it appears to be the most robust John Bulls, Stout English Yeoman and 'My home is my castle' types who are seeking to stand in the way of the very thing they obsess about every waking hour and for no other reason that because they've prescribed a opposing political leaning to a physical object or because they don't like the group of people who are at this particular moment in time being asked to switch to that object. All any Briton who currently either can't have an EV due to financial constraints, can't easily use an EV due to personal usage circumstances or just prefers petrol has to do is carry on doing exactly what they're doing but STFU about it. The EV switch has nothing to do with them today and when it eventually does either next decade or the one after it will be of enormous economic benefit to then if they're still alive. All any Briton who currently either can't have an EV due to financial constraints, can't easily use an EV due to personal usage circumstances or just prefers diesel has to do is both STFU and FRO.
. Along with any tool who thinks using an EV somehow makes them the special little boy mummy promised them they were. 
Just switch as and when you want to or can at some point over the next thirty years but don't ever forget that shouting about switching early or not wanting to switch doesn't make some a hero but just a bellend.
732NM said:
740EVTORQUES said:
You know climate change wiped out the dinosaurs last time round? (Admittedly quite abrupt climate change…)
The climate has never not changed.Jimjimhim said:
732NM said:
740EVTORQUES said:
You know climate change wiped out the dinosaurs last time round? (Admittedly quite abrupt climate change…)
The climate has never not changed.It's a bit like cheap oil running out in the next 40 years and the inevitable substantial and permanent price spike. We know it's going to happen and we know we need to insulate ourselves from the worst exposure and the slow switch to EV is an extremely simple and cheap way for the U.K. to just swerve a risk that is going to destroy other economies who are not significant producers.
DA is spot on, and it’s maddening that the environmental lobby haven’t pushed the energy security side of EVs and Net Zero in general instead of the purely environmental aspects.
I mean if ‘Just stop oil’ were more ‘Just stop sucking up to oligarchs and foreign oil producing autocracies’ just think how much broader their support might be?
(As well as not defacing historical landmarks and generally behaving like entitled idiots of course.)
I mean if ‘Just stop oil’ were more ‘Just stop sucking up to oligarchs and foreign oil producing autocracies’ just think how much broader their support might be?
(As well as not defacing historical landmarks and generally behaving like entitled idiots of course.)
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