EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
confused_buyer said:
Incidentally I do think Tesla have more sensible pricing. I can see the point of a £40k new Model 3 SR but struggle with a £35k Peugeot 208 or £30k+ FIAT 500.
Thats the problem exactly there. Every other manufacturer simply cannot afford to retail EV’s at Tesla prices. Nobody is going to spend £35000 on a 208 ev when a model 3 is £7000 more . Edited by confused_buyer on Thursday 2nd February 10:09
No dealer in their right mind will want to buy stock ( unless tesla ) until they see how the market adapts to the new pricing. They are stuffed and the only one to try to compete is currently Ford but they cant compete with another drop by Tesla
So in essence Tesla stock has dropped but my bet is it will stay similar to what is currently out there right now but other EV’s are still going to get hammered.
soupdragon1 said:
VW don't give a monkeys about Tesla slashing prices. A few days after Tesla slashed their prices, VW raised the price of the ID3 
VW have been in this game long enough to know how to manage their business through all sorts of challenges. Mark my words, but Tesla are on the road to shooting themselves in the foot on pricing strategy. Customers will already be acutely aware of lack of residual protection from buying a Tesla, something the established automakers have finely polished.
End of quarter incentives will be coming next month (again) free supercharger miles, or cheaper cars from inventory for example, just like last quarter. Do that again this quarter and you've basically trained customers to wait until the end of quarter discounts/incentives come.
A bit like McVities Jaffa cakes. Not many people pay full price anymore, as they're almost permanently on offer in some shape or form. Customers have been trained to know that there is another 'special offer' on its way and thats whats going to happen to Tesla. Its a school boy error in pricing strategy but Tesla are about to walk straight into it.
You've only a few weeks to wait to watch this prediction come true....
The entire purchasing of new cars is going like Tesla. BMW Aftica have started and Mercedes are now following. You will eventually just order online at the price they state or not buy it. Dealers are a thing of the past VW have been in this game long enough to know how to manage their business through all sorts of challenges. Mark my words, but Tesla are on the road to shooting themselves in the foot on pricing strategy. Customers will already be acutely aware of lack of residual protection from buying a Tesla, something the established automakers have finely polished.
End of quarter incentives will be coming next month (again) free supercharger miles, or cheaper cars from inventory for example, just like last quarter. Do that again this quarter and you've basically trained customers to wait until the end of quarter discounts/incentives come.
A bit like McVities Jaffa cakes. Not many people pay full price anymore, as they're almost permanently on offer in some shape or form. Customers have been trained to know that there is another 'special offer' on its way and thats whats going to happen to Tesla. Its a school boy error in pricing strategy but Tesla are about to walk straight into it.
You've only a few weeks to wait to watch this prediction come true....
Soupdragon. Go onto youtube and watch Sandy tesla mark up. VW cant even compete.
Edited by Chipper on Thursday 2nd February 10:41
Edited by Chipper on Thursday 2nd February 10:44
soupdragon1 said:
A bit like McVitie Jaffa cakes. Not many people pay full price anymore, as they're almost permanently on offer in some shape or form. .
As well as the ‘is it a cake, is it a biscuit, VAT challenge’, the other outcome was that McVitie failed to register Jaffa Cake as exclusively theirs.Chipper said:
soupdragon1 said:
VW don't give a monkeys about Tesla slashing prices. A few days after Tesla slashed their prices, VW raised the price of the ID3
VW have been in this game long enough to know how to manage their business through all sorts of challenges. Mark my words, but Tesla are on the road to shooting themselves in the foot on pricing strategy. Customers will already be acutely aware of lack of residual protection from buying a Tesla, something the established automakers have finely polished.
End of quarter incentives will be coming next month (again) free supercharger miles, or cheaper cars from inventory for example, just like last quarter. Do that again this quarter and you've basically trained customers to wait until the end of quarter discounts/incentives come.
A bit like McVities Jaffa cakes. Not many people pay full price anymore, as they're almost permanently on offer in some shape or form. Customers have been trained to know that there is another 'special offer' on its way and thats whats going to happen to Tesla. Its a school boy error in pricing strategy but Tesla are about to walk straight into it.
You've only a few weeks to wait to watch this prediction come true....
The entire purchasing of new cars is going like Tesla. BMW Aftica have started and Mercedes are now following. You will eventually just order online at the price they state or not buy it. Dealers are a thing of the past VW have been in this game long enough to know how to manage their business through all sorts of challenges. Mark my words, but Tesla are on the road to shooting themselves in the foot on pricing strategy. Customers will already be acutely aware of lack of residual protection from buying a Tesla, something the established automakers have finely polished.
End of quarter incentives will be coming next month (again) free supercharger miles, or cheaper cars from inventory for example, just like last quarter. Do that again this quarter and you've basically trained customers to wait until the end of quarter discounts/incentives come.
A bit like McVities Jaffa cakes. Not many people pay full price anymore, as they're almost permanently on offer in some shape or form. Customers have been trained to know that there is another 'special offer' on its way and thats whats going to happen to Tesla. Its a school boy error in pricing strategy but Tesla are about to walk straight into it.
You've only a few weeks to wait to watch this prediction come true....
Soupdragon. Go onto youtube and watch Sandy tesla mark up. VW cant even compete.
Edited by Chipper on Thursday 2nd February 10:41
Edited by Chipper on Thursday 2nd February 10:44
When you are in price cuts territory, it means the price cuts hurt Tesla margins more than a traditional automaker. You will find this out for yourself in 2023.
That Sandy Munroe video is interesting. He knows his stuff and he reckons that Tesla have a huge edge over the other legacy manufacturers.
Basically Elon Musk (much as I dislike a lot of his behaviour) has done at Tesla what Tim Cook did for Apple.
You can’t deny that his production efficiencies are genius.
Basically Elon Musk (much as I dislike a lot of his behaviour) has done at Tesla what Tim Cook did for Apple.
You can’t deny that his production efficiencies are genius.
soupdragon1 said:
Tesla margin is all a bit fantasy when comparing to other automakers, as Tesla don't use the same accounting processes, as well as having a no dealership business model.
When you are in price cuts territory, it means the price cuts hurt Tesla margins more than a traditional automaker. You will find this out for yourself in 2023.
You state VW will not even be bothered about the price reduction by Tesla is comical. Tesla car production costs on EV’s is massively lower than VW and their like. If manufacturers arent worried what Tesla did why has Ford dropped their prices ? When you are in price cuts territory, it means the price cuts hurt Tesla margins more than a traditional automaker. You will find this out for yourself in 2023.
This is the current price for a base spec new ID3[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/jhgYKUEN[/url]£40000 list price for a car not even in the same category as a model 3 , has a huge difference in spec , has a terrible range compared to the Tesla, is slower by a big margin and has less warranty. And the killer is it doesnt have acces to a reliable EV charging network.
The only advantage it might have is its smaller so potentially easier to park!
Oh you can negotiate can you. Wow because you really need to negotiate as my guess now that £40000 id3 needs to retail at under £29000 to even stand a chance.
Tesla has showed the car market you can retail cars online. Do you honestly think other manufacturers havent seen this and especially now have to reduce their costs to compete ?
Tesla i bet could drag that price of £42900 for a new model 3 down to £37900 and still make more than VW makes on an id3.
Edited by Chipper on Thursday 2nd February 11:45
Archie2050 said:
That Sandy Munroe video is interesting. He knows his stuff and he reckons that Tesla have a huge edge over the other legacy manufacturers.
Basically Elon Musk (much as I dislike a lot of his behaviour) has done at Tesla what Tim Cook did for Apple.
You can’t deny that his production efficiencies are genius.
Sandy has it spot on and anybody who is in car manufacturing and looking at Tesla should be bloody scared. They not only have the charging network behind them but the entire business model is leap years ahead of every other manufacturer. Basically Elon Musk (much as I dislike a lot of his behaviour) has done at Tesla what Tim Cook did for Apple.
You can’t deny that his production efficiencies are genius.
k was that?Chipper said:
soupdragon1 said:
Tesla margin is all a bit fantasy when comparing to other automakers, as Tesla don't use the same accounting processes, as well as having a no dealership business model.
When you are in price cuts territory, it means the price cuts hurt Tesla margins more than a traditional automaker. You will find this out for yourself in 2023.
You state VW will not even be bothered about the price reduction by Tesla is comical. Tesla car production costs on EV’s is massively lower than VW and their like. If manufacturers arent worried what Tesla did why has Ford dropped their prices ? When you are in price cuts territory, it means the price cuts hurt Tesla margins more than a traditional automaker. You will find this out for yourself in 2023.
This is the current price for a base spec new ID3[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/jhgYKUEN[/url]£40000 list price for a car not even in the same category as a model 3 , has a huge difference in spec , has a terrible range compared to the Tesla, is slower by a big margin and has less warranty. And the killer is it doesnt have acces to a reliable EV charging network.
The only advantage it might have is its smaller so potentially easier to park!
Oh you can negotiate can you. Wow because you really need to negotiate as my guess now that £40000 id3 needs to retail at under £29000 to even stand a chance.
Tesla has showed the car market you can retail cars online. Do you honestly think other manufacturers havent seen this and especially now have to reduce their costs to compete ?
Tesla i bet could drag that price of £42900 for a new model 3 down to £37900 and still make more than VW makes on an id3.
Edited by Chipper on Thursday 2nd February 11:45
There is no way you have access to VW commercially sensitive data yet it appears, you've somehow worked it out?
I'm calling BS until you show your workings.
Chipper said:
confused_buyer said:
EV values were on way down long before Tesla dropped prices. At the end of the day it is capitalism/competition and actually benefits the consumer. EV prices - both new and used - need to come down to reach mass adoption.
You can get a pre-reg Golf for about £20k and I can't help but feel that is where EVs need to end up to really start appealing to the masses not benefiting from BIK or 100% write downs - not £37k for a flippin' Megane for heaven's sake.
£20000 is now peanuts ( in conventional terms for a new car ) and you are living in a dream thinking you can get any substantial good quality vehicle with a good warranty at that price. Inflation will not allow it and we’ve had two years already running at 10%. You can get a pre-reg Golf for about £20k and I can't help but feel that is where EVs need to end up to really start appealing to the masses not benefiting from BIK or 100% write downs - not £37k for a flippin' Megane for heaven's sake.
Edited by confused_buyer on Thursday 2nd February 09:47
The market has changed because the government are trying to increase taxation on EV’s. Electricity costs have increased and fundamentally Tesla are going to squash the market to ensure they get growth.
Let’s be honest. If you can buy a LR tesla 3 used on a 21 plate with less than 20000 miles for lets say £25000 what will be the price of a 320 be ? Do you honestly think the ICE market will just be in a different universe with regards to pricing ?
The majority of people who use vehicles do not travel from Sunderland to London every other day and the majority would find an ev easy to live with.
I appreciate there are people who cant afford them but people who cant afford expensive ice cars dont buy an M4. They buy a used focus , Hyundai ( which are great ) .
TX.
soupdragon1 said:
Chipper said:
soupdragon1 said:
VW don't give a monkeys about Tesla slashing prices. A few days after Tesla slashed their prices, VW raised the price of the ID3
VW have been in this game long enough to know how to manage their business through all sorts of challenges. Mark my words, but Tesla are on the road to shooting themselves in the foot on pricing strategy. Customers will already be acutely aware of lack of residual protection from buying a Tesla, something the established automakers have finely polished.
End of quarter incentives will be coming next month (again) free supercharger miles, or cheaper cars from inventory for example, just like last quarter. Do that again this quarter and you've basically trained customers to wait until the end of quarter discounts/incentives come.
A bit like McVities Jaffa cakes. Not many people pay full price anymore, as they're almost permanently on offer in some shape or form. Customers have been trained to know that there is another 'special offer' on its way and thats whats going to happen to Tesla. Its a school boy error in pricing strategy but Tesla are about to walk straight into it.
You've only a few weeks to wait to watch this prediction come true....
The entire purchasing of new cars is going like Tesla. BMW Aftica have started and Mercedes are now following. You will eventually just order online at the price they state or not buy it. Dealers are a thing of the past VW have been in this game long enough to know how to manage their business through all sorts of challenges. Mark my words, but Tesla are on the road to shooting themselves in the foot on pricing strategy. Customers will already be acutely aware of lack of residual protection from buying a Tesla, something the established automakers have finely polished.
End of quarter incentives will be coming next month (again) free supercharger miles, or cheaper cars from inventory for example, just like last quarter. Do that again this quarter and you've basically trained customers to wait until the end of quarter discounts/incentives come.
A bit like McVities Jaffa cakes. Not many people pay full price anymore, as they're almost permanently on offer in some shape or form. Customers have been trained to know that there is another 'special offer' on its way and thats whats going to happen to Tesla. Its a school boy error in pricing strategy but Tesla are about to walk straight into it.
You've only a few weeks to wait to watch this prediction come true....
Soupdragon. Go onto youtube and watch Sandy tesla mark up. VW cant even compete.
Edited by Chipper on Thursday 2nd February 10:41
Edited by Chipper on Thursday 2nd February 10:44
When you are in price cuts territory, it means the price cuts hurt Tesla margins more than a traditional automaker. You will find this out for yourself in 2023.
Chamon_Lee said:
It’s laughable how poor people’s understanding is of financials. It’s not a surprise when your information or education comes from sandy off the internet.
Yup, I watched the Sandy video...It's always a bad start when someone rants... you know that 'passion' has overtaken rational thinking.
The 'auto driving' thing is free money, of course it is Sandy... that just came out of thin air, no money spent on R&D for that or any other feature, or the cars themselves.
No mention of the cost debt financing either.
Just add up the cost of the nuts and bolts.
By heck, the internet is a dangerous place.
s1962a said:
Chipper said:
God ive turned in an EV fanboy. Go on then. Tell me why its an inferior product ?
Because if you want to travel the length of the country multiple times during the day you’ll have to wait for it to charge up. That’s what the average consumer does right? soupdragon1 said:
You're literally imagining stuff in your head now
There is no way you have access to VW commercially sensitive data yet it appears, you've somehow worked it out?
I'm calling BS until you show your workings.
Whats BS ? What the hell are yon on about commercially sensitive data ????There is no way you have access to VW commercially sensitive data yet it appears, you've somehow worked it out?
I'm calling BS until you show your workings.
Its not rocket science to work out commercially how a huge bloated over staffed dealership network is not going to be able to compete with a company that does everything online with a centre source for deliveries. Have you heard about Amazon ?
Look at the price of the id3 against a model 3 . Which would you buy? You dont think VW will have to shift their pricing ?
craigjm said:
s1962a said:
Chipper said:
God ive turned in an EV fanboy. Go on then. Tell me why its an inferior product ?
Because if you want to travel the length of the country multiple times during the day you’ll have to wait for it to charge up. That’s what the average consumer does right? 
Add into that the crash in residuals as discussed on this thread together with electricity charging costs and it looks even worse. Of course they'll be the exceptional case of someone piping up to say they got 220 miles one day in the summer but who wants to drive like a hypermiling loser ? We can have the same arguments with the same EVangelist loons perpetually but the bottom line is the 2030 ban nonsense is for certain getting kicked into the long grass. EVs are inferior and Net Zero policies will get abandoned once the economic reality kicks in.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff