What is a good car brand these days?
Discussion
I have been a very loyal customer of a LEXUriouS car brand over the last 20+ years. Had 5 in total with 2 still in my possession. They used to be great cars and one is nigh on 200,000 miles from new and not missed a beat. However, I have had a few issues with the latest car including creaking suspension from when the car was new. Despite raising it with two dealers, it took my persistence and patience to sort it out. After 7 years, it was finally fixed.
Now, the leather has started to fail in some unusual places despite light use , very low miles, and good care. The Customer Relations department say that it is 'normal' and 'within specification'. I beg to differ. Upshot is...I'm ready to ditch the brand as it seems they have given up on their 'Pursuit Of Perfection' and put their fingers in their ears. Next service is due and they want £660 for oil, filter, pollen filter, air filter, brake fluid and coolant. The rest is 'checking that the floor mats are secured' and things like that. Not rocket science and feels like a lot of padding. I can do the service myself with genuine parts for less than £200. So, shock horror, they are on the verge of losing a loyal customer despite praise from JD Powers over the years.
So, having been a loyal customer, I've not really been looking at other marques of late. Plenty of lovely cars available but I am wondering - has quality kept pace with price? I am old fashioned and tend to buy a car rather than lease and change every 3 years. May be that is wrong, but mileage is not so much as it was years ago - say 10,000 miles a year.
Where do we go from here? What brands do Pistonheaders absolutely swear by, rather than swear at? By that I mean - the whole ownership experience. To me that means:
1. Quality that runs through the car - not that it just looks pretty (that discounts anything Land Rover/Range Rover - unless I can be persuaded otherwise).
2. Reliability - few foibles
3. Longevity / durability
4. Depreciation
5. Good dealers
6. Cost and ease of servicing
Its a big question - is there a a sweet spot for ownership out there that is not EV, and not more than say £65K?
Now, the leather has started to fail in some unusual places despite light use , very low miles, and good care. The Customer Relations department say that it is 'normal' and 'within specification'. I beg to differ. Upshot is...I'm ready to ditch the brand as it seems they have given up on their 'Pursuit Of Perfection' and put their fingers in their ears. Next service is due and they want £660 for oil, filter, pollen filter, air filter, brake fluid and coolant. The rest is 'checking that the floor mats are secured' and things like that. Not rocket science and feels like a lot of padding. I can do the service myself with genuine parts for less than £200. So, shock horror, they are on the verge of losing a loyal customer despite praise from JD Powers over the years.
So, having been a loyal customer, I've not really been looking at other marques of late. Plenty of lovely cars available but I am wondering - has quality kept pace with price? I am old fashioned and tend to buy a car rather than lease and change every 3 years. May be that is wrong, but mileage is not so much as it was years ago - say 10,000 miles a year.
Where do we go from here? What brands do Pistonheaders absolutely swear by, rather than swear at? By that I mean - the whole ownership experience. To me that means:
1. Quality that runs through the car - not that it just looks pretty (that discounts anything Land Rover/Range Rover - unless I can be persuaded otherwise).
2. Reliability - few foibles
3. Longevity / durability
4. Depreciation
5. Good dealers
6. Cost and ease of servicing
Its a big question - is there a a sweet spot for ownership out there that is not EV, and not more than say £65K?
Lexus used to make their cars in Japan only. But now they make some in North America. It depends which models you have. Japanese built Lexus (and Toyotas) are deemed better quality.
From purely quality perspective, I’d still put my money on a Japanese built Lexus - preferably a traditional saloon as opposed to an SUV.
From purely quality perspective, I’d still put my money on a Japanese built Lexus - preferably a traditional saloon as opposed to an SUV.
Edited by Moodyman1 on Thursday 20th June 21:01
Yes - quite correct. Mine have all been Japanese built cars. Good quality on the whole but still not immune to problems. Despite the reputation, I would say the company is not quite as a good as it makes out! Not enamored with the latest crop of cars now they have dropped 3.5L V6 and moved to 2.0L, but clearly loads of manufacturers are doing that.
I was in a Toyota dealer at the weekend and they had the new model CH-R in. A mid sized family hybrid hatchback. It was top spec - and £42,000. I was left thinking, does anyone buy a new car any more as that would hurt. Even a lease could be spendy.
Are cars from a few years ago (now used obviously) better than their modern successors with respect to quality of parts/materials, and an even better buy after the depreciation hit?
I was in a Toyota dealer at the weekend and they had the new model CH-R in. A mid sized family hybrid hatchback. It was top spec - and £42,000. I was left thinking, does anyone buy a new car any more as that would hurt. Even a lease could be spendy.
Are cars from a few years ago (now used obviously) better than their modern successors with respect to quality of parts/materials, and an even better buy after the depreciation hit?
Some would say not in the same league as Lexus but my wife has run Hyundais for the past 12 years and our main family car is an 8 year old ix20 mpv with 75k miles which we bought as an ex demo. It's been fantastic with never a single MOT advisory. Our local dealership are always good to go to with helpful staff and decent service. Hyundai seem to be gaining a really good reputation for their cars these days.
If you like Lexus then perhaps a Hyundai might be too much of a step down. But spending less on the purchase price does also help limit depreciation to some extent.
We will be having another when the time comes.
If you like Lexus then perhaps a Hyundai might be too much of a step down. But spending less on the purchase price does also help limit depreciation to some extent.
We will be having another when the time comes.
While I completely understand that Lexus aren't perfect, I honestly doubt you'll find another brand that's actually on average better quality. To be quite honest, a creaking noise over bumps and some unevenly faded leather aren't the worst things that can go wrong with a car (although I agree if you've bought an expensive car brand new you expect it to be perfect).
I certainly wouldn't expect a Hyundai or Skoda to have fewer issues on average, although of course one individual car from those brands might have fewer faults than another individual Lexus.
I think the bigger issue than the cars are the dealers. A dealer who books you in straight away at a convenient time, fixes the car first time and hands it back spotless with a smile goes a long way to ameliorate the inconvenience of a problem. Conversely if you're fighting a years long battle to get your car fixed, a small fault can become infuriating.
So one approach to customer satisfaction would be to start by finding a good garage, and then buying a car of that brand. Most main dealers are awful, although I think some of the smaller outlets haven't forgotten that "care" is something you do, not just a word you write on a sign.
Perhaps the best thing is to find a really good independent specialist (not easy, but they are out there), buy a used car in really good condition (have them inspect it before purchase), and then go there for maintenance. Independents don't have a guaranteed local monopoly so work much harder to satisfy their customers. Buying at 3yo or 5yo also dodges the bulk of the depreciation.
As mentioned by others, I don't think anyone is doing it "better" than Lexus. Despite their reputation not always matching up with reality. I'm minded to say Honda, but they are in the same position that the historical perception of their reliability doesn't automatically mean headache-free ownership.
I think the most pragmatic choice is to find something you really like and want, then just hope for the best.
I think the most pragmatic choice is to find something you really like and want, then just hope for the best.
Porsche have been very good for me.
Panamera 3.0d is well over 200000 miles with no major problems other than the expected consumables.
Cayenne continues to be faultless.
Looking at a Panamera 4S diesel next but can’t get financing cheap enough currently so will look again in a year.
Main dealer is very professional, both sales and service.
Independent mechanic is also exceptional.
Panamera 3.0d is well over 200000 miles with no major problems other than the expected consumables.
Cayenne continues to be faultless.
Looking at a Panamera 4S diesel next but can’t get financing cheap enough currently so will look again in a year.
Main dealer is very professional, both sales and service.
Independent mechanic is also exceptional.
TUS373 said:
Bobupndown said:
Assuming your car is 7+ years old I'd be doing the <£200 service myself and tell the dealer to f
k off.
That's where I am at. The difference in price is essentially the same as 12 months comprehensive insurance!k off.Brother in law has an RX450h and he’s had lots of little problems which the dealer (a family firm who have an amazing reputation around here) often doesn’t fix first time. Funnily enough, as you mentioned Skoda, they also sell those (on the same site but in a separate building) and my wife got a Karoq from them and is having (well, it’s me doing all the legwork) the same experience.
A lot is down to the dealer - before Karoq wife had a VW Tiguan for 8 yrs - dealer was brilliant, but it was a small dealer (although part of a big group) and I was lucky that both service managers they had in that time were happy to put up with me dealing directly with them. Wife wouldn’t have a new Tiguan as it was deemed too big!
Interesting to follow Mercedes forums for my own car - you see people who rotate around Audi, BMW and Mercedes and have issues with all of them.
GordonGekko said:
Porsche have been very good for me.
Panamera 3.0d is well over 200000 miles with no major problems other than the expected consumables.
Cayenne continues to be faultless.
Looking at a Panamera 4S diesel next but can’t get financing cheap enough currently so will look again in a year.
Main dealer is very professional, both sales and service.
Independent mechanic is also exceptional.
OP is grumpy about £600 services though….Panamera 3.0d is well over 200000 miles with no major problems other than the expected consumables.
Cayenne continues to be faultless.
Looking at a Panamera 4S diesel next but can’t get financing cheap enough currently so will look again in a year.
Main dealer is very professional, both sales and service.
Independent mechanic is also exceptional.
valiant said:
Filibuster said:
Volvo
Not the newer ones.Electrical gremlins galore!
Old stuff was unburstable but they've gone the same way as bmw and Audi and trade off past glories
As said above though, it's the dealers that make the difference; mine is still a family run business and they are always superb at customer service.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff