Koenigsegg v Pagani
Discussion
Not really got many credentials to ask this on this forum as my daily drive is far removed, but looking at these two, let's call it left field choices, how would you rate them nowadays for the crucial event of buying one?
The Swedes to me always seemed on the back foot, but now it seems they are doing more than Pagani on the car front and, perhaps more importantly, on social media.
These two car companies are in a league of their own, for good or bad, compared to the big 3 of Fer,Lam and now Mcl so how are they rated for people with quite a big wallet?
The Swedes to me always seemed on the back foot, but now it seems they are doing more than Pagani on the car front and, perhaps more importantly, on social media.
These two car companies are in a league of their own, for good or bad, compared to the big 3 of Fer,Lam and now Mcl so how are they rated for people with quite a big wallet?
I should start by saying I have been considering getting a Agera R for some time...
For me Pagani lost their way with the Huayra. The Zonda was beautiful (a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast and sounded awesome.
It was for those who could afford a Veyron but had eyes which functioned properly and were willing to sacrifice some speed.
The Huayra is not beautiful (although still a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast (but no where near Agera fast) and sounds...different!
With the beauty now lacking (in my opinion) people are turning towards Koenigsegg to provide something which is still totally bespoke and mind bogglingly fast.
I wish the Agera looked better...but all is forgiven when you get in one and start driving. It is an amazing machine (faster in a straight line than the 918/P1/LaFerrari) and with an excellent fit and finish (far better than CCR's!).
I'm hoping to be able to get one by the end of the year - so will keep you updated on my decision!
For me Pagani lost their way with the Huayra. The Zonda was beautiful (a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast and sounded awesome.
It was for those who could afford a Veyron but had eyes which functioned properly and were willing to sacrifice some speed.
The Huayra is not beautiful (although still a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast (but no where near Agera fast) and sounds...different!
With the beauty now lacking (in my opinion) people are turning towards Koenigsegg to provide something which is still totally bespoke and mind bogglingly fast.
I wish the Agera looked better...but all is forgiven when you get in one and start driving. It is an amazing machine (faster in a straight line than the 918/P1/LaFerrari) and with an excellent fit and finish (far better than CCR's!).
I'm hoping to be able to get one by the end of the year - so will keep you updated on my decision!
It will come of no surprise to anyone on here that I am a bit of a Pagani fan, but on the flip side I also have a huge respect for Koeniggsegg.
The Zonda a will go down as a classic that I suspect would feature highly on most gear heads wish lists. The Hurayra has been like that difficult second album, very divisive and a bit marmite.
Does that worry Pagani, I suspect not as it has been a commercial success with all the limited run of 100 sold in a lot shorter timespan than it took to sell the first 100 Zonda’s. And with various other variants in the pipeline and pre-orders being very healthy things are looking good for the company.
Koeniggsegg like Pagani now produce cars that from a quality point of view put the other main players into the shade. I do worry that their singular USP i.e. silly top speed does distract from the car’s other capabilities. Also the move to even more outlandish and questionable (IMO) styling on the 1-One does nothing to enhance the brand. (Pagani can also be accused of this).
Personally I would like to see them produce a completely new car, the current shape has not changed much in 15 years. They have the skills and the technology to be a real force but I feel will always drop well behind Pagani commercially unless they produce a single model that they could sell to at least 100 customers, A new version every 6 -10 cars or so does not build customer loyalty in my opinion
The Zonda a will go down as a classic that I suspect would feature highly on most gear heads wish lists. The Hurayra has been like that difficult second album, very divisive and a bit marmite.
Does that worry Pagani, I suspect not as it has been a commercial success with all the limited run of 100 sold in a lot shorter timespan than it took to sell the first 100 Zonda’s. And with various other variants in the pipeline and pre-orders being very healthy things are looking good for the company.
Koeniggsegg like Pagani now produce cars that from a quality point of view put the other main players into the shade. I do worry that their singular USP i.e. silly top speed does distract from the car’s other capabilities. Also the move to even more outlandish and questionable (IMO) styling on the 1-One does nothing to enhance the brand. (Pagani can also be accused of this).
Personally I would like to see them produce a completely new car, the current shape has not changed much in 15 years. They have the skills and the technology to be a real force but I feel will always drop well behind Pagani commercially unless they produce a single model that they could sell to at least 100 customers, A new version every 6 -10 cars or so does not build customer loyalty in my opinion
gregf40 said:
I should start by saying I have been considering getting a Agera R for some time...
For me Pagani lost their way with the Huayra. The Zonda was beautiful (a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast and sounded awesome.
It was for those who could afford a Veyron but had eyes which functioned properly and were willing to sacrifice some speed.
The Huayra is not beautiful (although still a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast (but no where near Agera fast) and sounds...different!
With the beauty now lacking (in my opinion) people are turning towards Koenigsegg to provide something which is still totally bespoke and mind bogglingly fast.
I wish the Agera looked better...but all is forgiven when you get in one and start driving. It is an amazing machine (faster in a straight line than the 918/P1/LaFerrari) and with an excellent fit and finish (far better than CCR's!).
I'm hoping to be able to get one by the end of the year - so will keep you updated on my decision!
Agree with this For me Pagani lost their way with the Huayra. The Zonda was beautiful (a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast and sounded awesome.
It was for those who could afford a Veyron but had eyes which functioned properly and were willing to sacrifice some speed.
The Huayra is not beautiful (although still a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast (but no where near Agera fast) and sounds...different!
With the beauty now lacking (in my opinion) people are turning towards Koenigsegg to provide something which is still totally bespoke and mind bogglingly fast.
I wish the Agera looked better...but all is forgiven when you get in one and start driving. It is an amazing machine (faster in a straight line than the 918/P1/LaFerrari) and with an excellent fit and finish (far better than CCR's!).
I'm hoping to be able to get one by the end of the year - so will keep you updated on my decision!
The Zonda was a hard act to follow and the Huayra hasn't really followed it. I (and I suspect I'm not alone) would rather have a Zonda than take a Huayra, even if the Huayra is the more capable car - the Zonda just tugs on the heart strings that bit more.Streetrod said:
Koeniggsegg like Pagani now produce cars that from a quality point of view put the other main players into the shade. I do worry that their singular USP i.e. silly top speed does distract from the car’s other capabilities. Also the move to even more outlandish and questionable (IMO) styling on the 1-One does nothing to enhance the brand. (Pagani can also be accused of this).
Ah, my friend, this old debate again, eh? I totally agree with you on the top speed issue. After the Veyron, other manufacturers seemed to lose interest in silly outright top speeds - after all, unless you're lucky enough to own either a disused military airfield, or your own country (so you can close roads), where are you going to drag race against your friends? So the post-Veyron halo cars - 918, P1, LaFerrari, and Huarya - are obviously capable of way over 200mph, but definitely don't emphasise their top speeds as being (in relative terms) anything special. Where Koenigsegg differ is that they do still seem to have an obsession with big numbers - acceleration, horsepower, weight, power-to-weight ratio, and yes, vague claims of 270mph+ top speeds. Where I think they maybe fall down in comparison with other manufacturers is still playing this numbers game when their rivals are looking elsewhere for their competitive edge. Who else is still in the numbers game? Seems to me it's (in perception terms, no disrespect or slights intended here) less prestigious companies like Hennessey or Shelby.I'm almost sick of saying this now - if Koenigsegg believe they have a car that can do 273mph, let's see the evidence please.
Edited by BelfastBoy on Friday 19th June 13:11
BelfastBoy said:
Streetrod said:
Koeniggsegg like Pagani now produce cars that from a quality point of view put the other main players into the shade. I do worry that their singular USP i.e. silly top speed does distract from the car’s other capabilities. Also the move to even more outlandish and questionable (IMO) styling on the 1-One does nothing to enhance the brand. (Pagani can also be accused of this).
Ah, my friend, this old debate again, eh? I totally agree with you on the top speed issue. After the Veyron, other manufacturers seemed to lose interest in silly outright top speeds - after all, unless you're lucky enough to own either a disused military airfield, or your own country (so you can close roads), where are you going to drag race against your friends? So the post-generation halo cars - 918, P1, LaFerrari, and Huarya - are obviously capable of way over 200mph, but definitely don't emphasise their top speeds as being (in relative terms) anything special. Where Koenigsegg differ is that they do still seem to have an obsession with big numbers - acceleration, horsepower, weight, power-to-weight ratio, and yes, vague claims of 270mph+ top speeds. Where I think they maybe fall down in comparison with other manufacturers is still playing this numbers game when their rivals are looking elsewhere for their competitive edge. Who else is still in the numbers game? Seems to me it's (in perception terms, no disrespect or slights intended here) less prestigious companies like Hennessey or Shelby.I'm almost sick of saying this now - if Koenigsegg believe they have a car that can do 273mph, let's see the evidence please.
Also they have constantly threatened to challenge the Ring record, but although they have been observed testing there on a number of occasions a time has never officially been posted. Look even Lamborghini have gone sub seven mins now. Koeniggsegg are going to have to really smash the record now to make any kind of impact, personally I think they have missed the boat on this one
Streetrod said:
Totally agree mate, the only place on earth where they can safely prove their top speed claims is owned by VW and surprise surprise they are never going to get to use of that.
Also they have constantly threatened to challenge the Ring record, but although they have been observed testing there on a number of occasions a time has never officially been posted. Look even Lamborghini have gone sub seven mins now. Koeniggsegg are going to have to really smash the record now to make any kind of impact, personally I think they have missed the boat on this one
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/nurburgring-bans-lap-times/32397Also they have constantly threatened to challenge the Ring record, but although they have been observed testing there on a number of occasions a time has never officially been posted. Look even Lamborghini have gone sub seven mins now. Koeniggsegg are going to have to really smash the record now to make any kind of impact, personally I think they have missed the boat on this one
Davey S2 said:
Streetrod said:
Totally agree mate, the only place on earth where they can safely prove their top speed claims is owned by VW and surprise surprise they are never going to get to use of that.
Bonneville?Who owns Nardo?
You can’t just rock up to Bonneville and run your car, you have to jump through various hoops.
As for Nardo, how long is the straight??
gregf40 said:
Streetrod said:
Totally agree mate, the only place on earth where they can safely prove their top speed claims is owned by VW and surprise surprise they are never going to get to use of that.
Also they have constantly threatened to challenge the Ring record, but although they have been observed testing there on a number of occasions a time has never officially been posted. Look even Lamborghini have gone sub seven mins now. Koeniggsegg are going to have to really smash the record now to make any kind of impact, personally I think they have missed the boat on this one
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/nurburgring-bans-lap-times/32397Also they have constantly threatened to challenge the Ring record, but although they have been observed testing there on a number of occasions a time has never officially been posted. Look even Lamborghini have gone sub seven mins now. Koeniggsegg are going to have to really smash the record now to make any kind of impact, personally I think they have missed the boat on this one
Some interesting info about the Nardo ring here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nard%C3%B2_Ring
Basically, although from the driver's perspective it looks like a never-ending straight, a car will be losing some of its top speed potential from constant cornering. (Random example: many years the XJ220 did 217mph at Nardo, but on a straight surface the top speed apparently would've been more like 223mph. Pity nobody ever seems to have tested that.) I also understand that the surface at Nardo is extremely bumpy and unsettling, and that there's slopes and dips at various parts of the track. In short, it's not an ideal location for safe high-speed testing.
Since VW's Ehra Lessien would presumably never be available for Koenigsegg, I imagine their best option would be to find some very long flat straight public road somewhere and request permission to have it closed for a short period of time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nard%C3%B2_Ring
Basically, although from the driver's perspective it looks like a never-ending straight, a car will be losing some of its top speed potential from constant cornering. (Random example: many years the XJ220 did 217mph at Nardo, but on a straight surface the top speed apparently would've been more like 223mph. Pity nobody ever seems to have tested that.) I also understand that the surface at Nardo is extremely bumpy and unsettling, and that there's slopes and dips at various parts of the track. In short, it's not an ideal location for safe high-speed testing.
Since VW's Ehra Lessien would presumably never be available for Koenigsegg, I imagine their best option would be to find some very long flat straight public road somewhere and request permission to have it closed for a short period of time.
BelfastBoy said:
Since VW's Ehra Lessien would presumably never be available for Koenigsegg, I imagine their best option would be to find some very long flat straight public road somewhere and request permission to have it closed for a short period of time.
I bet Putin would close a nice section of highway if they offered him a drive (after the record attempt, obviously 
)AW111 said:
I bet Putin would close a nice section of highway if they offered him a drive (after the record attempt, obviously )
Or come over to England one night...I imagine one could (if one was inclined) reach a high speed on this lovely straight Roman road...not that I would know...)https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.755514,-1.058986...
gregf40 said:
AW111 said:
I bet Putin would close a nice section of highway if they offered him a drive (after the record attempt, obviously )
Or come over to England one night...I imagine one could (if one was inclined) reach a high speed on this lovely straight Roman road...not that I would know...)https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.755514,-1.058986...
Streetrod said:
Koeniggsegg like Pagani now produce cars that from a quality point of view put the other main players into the shade. I do worry that their singular USP i.e. silly top speed does distract from the car’s other capabilities. Also the move to even more outlandish and questionable (IMO) styling on the 1-One does nothing to enhance the brand. (Pagani can also be accused of this).
Personally I would like to see them produce a completely new car, the current shape has not changed much in 15 years. They have the skills and the technology to be a real force but I feel will always drop well behind Pagani commercially unless they produce a single model that they could sell to at least 100 customers, A new version every 6 -10 cars or so does not build customer loyalty in my opinion
Personally I would like to see them produce a completely new car, the current shape has not changed much in 15 years. They have the skills and the technology to be a real force but I feel will always drop well behind Pagani commercially unless they produce a single model that they could sell to at least 100 customers, A new version every 6 -10 cars or so does not build customer loyalty in my opinion
I agree that they seem overly fussed on how many horsepower their latest push on that V8 has but from what I have seen (only in documentaries) I do like their engineering and detailed approach.
I haven't been up close to an Agera but the one thing it seems lacking is the spine tingling noise that any hypercar must have. Maybe it is different in the flesh but on film the v8 always sounds a bit, well, flat?
Wonder what the latest is with their Regera...
I am lucky to have spent time in both... For me the Zonda has the best noise and is the best drivers car (like a big V12 Go Kart) and the Huayra is the best looking. I shot a Huayra next to a Zonda S a few days ago at their new factory and couldn't help feeling the Zonda looked quite dated in comparison and the Huayra had much nicer flowing lines
gregf40 said:
Or come over to England one night...I imagine one could (if one was inclined) reach a high speed on this lovely straight Roman road...not that I would know...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.755514,-1.058986...
my first driving lesson involved that stretch of road https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.755514,-1.058986...
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