Le Mans - Is it me or has it become Chav Central?

[clapham993]

Just got back from the great event (lovely run back; left the circuit at 4.15, back in Clapham by 10.20 and - if you were driving the red 360 Spyder I was dicing with as we passed the Gendarmes, I didn't get a tug, did you?)

The issue is however that I couldn't help but notice how "Enger-land" the event seems to have become. A couple of other friends commented on this too (especially one who hadn't been for a few years)- what did everyone else think?

[Mark B]

I didn't got his year so I can't comment on 2004

It is a really difficult subject to comment on, I would agree with all of your comments but I for one love the hooning aspect of Mad Friday and the general antics that go on at houx Annexe. The roundabout thing that now seems to be a big talking point was started a few years back by Martin in his Europa and Adrian in his Caterham Zetec, both members of our group, since then it has gone mad. We are also responsible for the inpromptu firework display at houx Annexe on Sunday nights, a tradition that has been going for over 12 years and one that a lot of money is put into.

I can remember scenes at Cafe des Hunadiere that no longer occur. Rows upon rows of Exotica like Cobra's, Lambo, Fezza's, Caterhams, Jags, Astons, Porkers and the like. I remember the Diablo racing along the Mulsanne, the Westfield V8 racing sports bikes (and winning). This all got stopped and went down to Indianapolis and Arnage, I can remember Fat Arnie (VVV quick Caterham) racing my mate Joe on his Yam R1 which was a hell of a site. My mates Joe and Ben wheelying down to Indianapolis and Arnage, Martin (again) hooning in his Europa, and generally everyone having a bloody good time.

More recently though there has been a larger aspect of Chav city coming through, I for one don't get a huge 'buzz' out of seeing a Vectra with it's hand brake on destroying a set of 195/50's amongst a large crowd. Someone on Club Arnage was asking where the burn outs and drag racing went on 'cause 'is mate was bringing 'is Turbo'd, nitrous'd Mk2 Astra down. Maybe he should have headed for Le Clerc car park somewhere a long way from Le mans.

So, after the above rant, I would agree with you and hold on to the hope that people will carry on hooning in Classic Sportscars and the Exotica and leave the max muppet mobiles in the Toys R Us car park in Blighty.

What are other peoples thoughts?

[FourWheelDrift]

Firstly what's "Chav" about lots of people from here going to Le Mans support all the British drivers and teams. Plus with the football game on against France too it was an excellent time to show support.

Secondly what's the difference between a Vectra burn out and a Ferrari/Porsche/TVR burnout on Mulsanne. Nothing, just people doing what they always do on the Friday. Maybe they were a TVR owner but had problems with the car so bought the trolly instead.

I think some people are a bit too "Chav obsessed" seeing it in everything these days.

Chav's are the people wearing Burberry Baseball caps (not everyone wearing baseball caps are Chavs) and drive badly customised Nova's/Saxo's and the like.

[murcielago]

FourWheelDrift said:

Firstly what's "Chav" about lots of people from here going to Le Mans support all the British drivers and teams. Plus with the football game on against France too it was an excellent time to show support. Secondly what's the difference between a Vectra burn out and a Ferrari/Porsche/TVR burnout on Mulsanne. Nothing, just people doing what they always do on the Friday. Maybe they were a TVR owner but had problems with the car so bought the trolly instead. I think some people are a bit too "Chav obsessed" seeing it in everything these days. Chav's are the people wearing Burberry Baseball caps (not everyone wearing baseball caps are Chavs) and drive badly customised Nova's/Saxo's and the like.

Le Mans didn't seem to "chavvy" to me

[Mark B]

FourWheelDrift said:

Secondly what's the difference between a Vectra burn out and a Ferrari/Porsche/TVR burnout on Mulsanne. Nothing, just people doing what they always do on the Friday. Maybe they were a TVR owner but had problems with the car so bought the trolly instead.

I think the point being made was that there seem a lot of Tossers arriving at Le Mans these days, and I would tend to agree. The trip organisers are a lot to blame, they have made the Le Mans an easily accessible trip, certainly in the last 5 years things have changed.

And with regard to your thoughts above, I agree that the Vectra may well have been owned by a TVR owner, but personally I do see there being a difference between a Vectra and a Porsche/Ferrari/TVR hooning around. Only in my opinion, but each to their own....

One thing for sure, I will never miss LM again and I am already looking forward to next year, be it Chav City or not!

[clapham993]

This is a very personal view but, for me as a 16 year veteran, the event has lost something of its way as a coming together of passionate petrol-heads and is becoming much more of a Brit-lager-louts-on-tour type event.

I wonder whether the separation of the Le Mans classic has exacerbated this and, certainly, there seemed less of the classic car types there this year (the back-bone of the Le Mans atmosphere that I remember) and more of the Vectra/320i/Audi A3 people, together with England window flags, tattoos and shirts-off, beer guts-out lad behaviour. Also, it seems to me as if, in the last couple of years there have been fewer people following the racing and more indulging on stag week-end esque drinking binges (The number of people leaving at midday on Sunday bearing this out)

As I say, it is a personal view but I prefered it when it was petrolheads with proper kit going to have some motoring related fun and to watch the racing

I agree with Mark that the tour industry is making the event too accessible to the wrong sort of people - perhaps a quadrupling of ticket prices would make them think twice



>> Edited by clapham993 on Monday 14th June 13:07

[Mark B]

clapham993 said:

This is a very personal view but, for me as a 16 year veteran, the event has lost something of its way as a coming together of passionate petrol-heads and is becoming much more of a Brit-lager-louts-on-tour type event. I wonder whether the separation of the Le Mans classic has exacerbated this and, certainly, there seemed less of the classic car types there this year (the back-bone of the Le Mans atmosphere that I remember) and more of the Vectra/320i/Audi A3 people, together with England window flags, tattoos and shirts-off, beer guts-out lad behaviour. Also, it seems to me as if, in the last couple of years there have been fewer people following the racing and more indulging on stag week-end esque drinking binges (The number of people leaving at midday on Sunday bearing this out) As I say, it is a personal view but I prefered it when it was petrolheads with proper kit going to have some motoring related fun and to watch the racing I agree with Mark that the tour industry is making the event too accessible to the wrong sort of people - perhaps a quadrupling of ticket prices would make them think twice

Clapham 993 - I agree with all your comments except that I also go down to LM with the partying/atmosphere as much in my mind as the race/petrolhead bit. I will be at the Classic this year, if you're going let me know we could meet up....

Mark B

[clapham993]

Mark B said:

clapham993 said: This is a very personal view but, for me as a 16 year veteran, the event has lost something of its way as a coming together of passionate petrol-heads and is becoming much more of a Brit-lager-louts-on-tour type event. I wonder whether the separation of the Le Mans classic has exacerbated this and, certainly, there seemed less of the classic car types there this year (the back-bone of the Le Mans atmosphere that I remember) and more of the Vectra/320i/Audi A3 people, together with England window flags, tattoos and shirts-off, beer guts-out lad behaviour. Also, it seems to me as if, in the last couple of years there have been fewer people following the racing and more indulging on stag week-end esque drinking binges (The number of people leaving at midday on Sunday bearing this out) As I say, it is a personal view but I prefered it when it was petrolheads with proper kit going to have some motoring related fun and to watch the racing I agree with Mark that the tour industry is making the event too accessible to the wrong sort of people - perhaps a quadrupling of ticket prices would make them think twice Clapham 993 - I agree with all your comments except that I also go down to LM with the partying/atmosphere as much in my mind as the race/petrolhead bit. I will be at the Classic this year, if you're going let me know we could meet up.... Mark B

Mark - each to his own on the partying I guess, as long as you make the most of the racing too.

Would love to do the classic but am committed to racing that wek-end (and for both the Goodwood events)

[911nutter]

interesting little thread. this was my first le mans, and although it was great fun, i do understand the comments being made. we too thought that there were a few too many pikey-wannabe's, but we put this down more to what enger-land is turning into. the type that have those plastic clip on st.george flags to the car windows we felt were ideal candidates to be turned round at the french ports and returned home to essex or wherever they come from.

having said all this, we also noted the french were much worse... the way they seemed to be only too happy to pile in to anything that looked like trouble and antagonise situations.

i suggest the english middle classes should rise up and take a stand against the boozin' pikey lower classes, put 'em on a train to scotland, tow scotland out into the middle of the north sea and nuke the out of it. this way we would solve two problems in one go

here endeth the rant.

hurrah!

[Mark B]

911nutter said:

interesting little thread. this was my first le mans, and although it was great fun, i do understand the comments being made. we too thought that there were a few too many pikey-wannabe's, but we put this down more to what enger-land is turning into. the type that have those plastic clip on st.george flags to the car windows we felt were ideal candidates to be turned round at the french ports and returned home to essex or wherever they come from. having said all this, we also noted the french were much worse... the way they seemed to be only too happy to pile in to anything that looked like trouble and antagonise situations. i suggest the english middle classes should rise up and take a stand against the boozin' pikey lower classes, put 'em on a train to scotland, tow scotland out into the middle of the north sea and nuke the out of it. this way we would solve two problems in one go here endeth the rant. hurrah!

Wow, steady fella.......

[clapham993]

Chav's are the people wearing Burberry Baseball caps (not everyone wearing baseball caps are Chavs) and drive badly customised Nova's/Saxo's and the like.[/quote]

I actually saw at least one example of the Romford tartan headgear this week-end - at Le Mans?! I thought the day would never come......

[t1grm]

My first experience at Le Mans: Pull off the dual carriageway, turn left at the lights by the circuit entrance, under the bridge and up the hill. Come to a pub with what looked like a load of England football supporters with their tattoos and beer guts on display. Funny, I thought this was a motor race? Bloke flags me down and comes up to me. Says something like “my mates all think Porkers are crap but I drive one myself so how about giving it some large for us?” No to disappoint I booted it away although TBH I felt a bit embarrassed about the whole thing. Also being a 968 (with a badly slipping clutch) this must have been wholly under whelming experience seeing as the place was awash with TVR’s, Ferraris and 911’s. Anyone who knows Porkers knows 968’s are noted for their fine poise and handling but not their grunt or sonorous exhaust note.

I also noted mucho large loutish behaviour in the paddock on Friday night. The singing/shouting in one bar was so off putting I had to go off and take a walk. So yes I would agree it’s much more chavvy than any other motor race I’ve been to but I hadn’t been to Le Mans before so I can’t comment on other years.

[clapham993]

t1grm said:

My first experience at Le Mans: Pull off the dual carriageway, turn left at the lights by the circuit entrance, under the bridge and up the hill. Come to a pub with what looked like a load of England football supporters with their tattoos and beer guts on display. Funny, I thought this was a motor race? Bloke flags me down and comes up to me. Says something like “my mates all think Porkers are crap but I drive one myself so how about giving it some large for us?” No to disappoint I booted it away although TBH I felt a bit embarrassed about the whole thing. Also being a 968 (with a badly slipping clutch) this must have been wholly under whelming experience seeing as the place was awash with TVR’s, Ferraris and 911’s. Anyone who knows Porkers knows 968’s are noted for their fine poise and handling but not their grunt or sonorous exhaust note. I also noted mucho large loutish behaviour in the paddock on Friday night. The singing/shouting in one bar was so off putting I had to go off and take a walk. So yes I would agree it’s much more chavvy than any other motor race I’ve been to but I hadn’t been to Le Mans before so I can’t comment on other years.

Hi Gary

Hope it hasn't put you off - it's still a good event once you know the ropes.

P

[Buffalo]

Didn't go this year, but last year we bumped into several groups of lads who were somewhat oblivious to the fact there was a race on over the weekend..!

Mind you it was aparent that they had a lot more money than the average joe so i guess a cheap booze weekend for them.

Whilst i admit we did get a little trolleyed at the campsite, the arguements were all about cars!

[williamp]

I agree. As someone said, a lot of porple go there for the aspect of getting blind frunk and behaving like louts- afterall, they cannot do it at Football matches now, and F1 is way too expensive. But Le Mans?? Well, its a chance to get druink, and cause some 'aggro with some foreigners. Even in 2001 is wasnt quite like this. But this year it seemed stuopid. I passed 2 Focus RS and a Imprezza P1 on the N138, yet at the circuit (where there are crowds watching??) they were spinning their wheels, radios blaring etc etc.

Whata shame. Still, at least the racing is still great!

[jvaughan]

Its not just the chavs at Le Mans ... Im sorry to say, but after driving the track on Friday Morning, with every intent of stopping at the Pistonhead Tee Shirt Wearers gathering, I decided against it, put my tee shirt back in the boot and remained anonymous. Why .... Because there was a Large number of whitless assholes out and about wearing these teeshirts, generally being twatish and dangerous.

I know the majority of Fellow PH'ers are nice folks, but this was observed by me and a few people I spoke to.

[stewy68]

911nutter said:

interesting little thread. this was my first le mans, and although it was great fun, i do understand the comments being made. we too thought that there were a few too many pikey-wannabe's, but we put this down more to what enger-land is turning into. the type that have those plastic clip on st.george flags to the car windows we felt were ideal candidates to be turned round at the french ports and returned home to essex or wherever they come from. having said all this, we also noted the french were much worse... the way they seemed to be only too happy to pile in to anything that looked like trouble and antagonise situations. i suggest the english middle classes should rise up and take a stand against the boozin' pikey lower classes, put 'em on a train to scotland, tow scotland out into the middle of the north sea and nuke the out of it. this way we would solve two problems in one go here endeth the rant. hurrah!

While we all agree with the anti-chav movement, you reallly should refrain from being such a pr1ck and stop spoiling things for the others.:coffee beans:

[PetrolTed]

And on the second day there was peace amongst all men...

[chrisgr31]

Well I also agree that there was some disappointing behaviour this year. Having wathced the start from Tetre Rouge where there were some very drunk alledged TVR supporters in the 2 Grandstand, who managed to pour their beer over innocent bystanders twice, thow sandwiches into the crowd, and shout and swear and generally be offensive.

It made one embarrassed to be english. It would seem that the ACO are trying to attract families, but so far seem to be attracting the football crowd.

No one objects to people having fun and enjoying themselves after a few beers, however when that ruins the enjoyment of others then it has gone too far.

However the objectionable ones were in the linority so I will be back next year

[beesma]

After 10 years of attending this was the first year where on a couple of occasions our enjoyment of he event was marred by fellow attendees. We always look forward to the atmosphere and the camraderie with fellow petrolheads...I would suggest that the tw@t who hosed down our friends in a 328gts and us in a 355 GTS F1 with a super-soaker wasn't really a car fan at all, and the English lads who "objected" to us pitching our tents too close to them in an oversubscribed blue sud camping weren't a patch on the danes opposite who gave us a jump start when the car refused to start.

The first time I came down I came on a 70 quid bus trip, now I go in my ferrari, but the petrol that flows through my veins is the same as it ever was...the answer is not to price out the less affluent enthusiasts, but to make sure the organisers know that they really risk losing the true motorsport and motoring fans...this was the first year that we discussed not camping next year, we don't want to stop camping because we want to enjoy our cars and we want to share the enjoyment of our cars, its just a shame that a few morons can ruin it for everyone.