Le Mans 24 crowd level
Discussion
ettore said:
ollie2007uk said:
I understand that "VIP" and corporate hospitality are normal for such an event but this year it seemed excessive in my opinion.
My biggest gripe was the lack of welfare. No matter how you sugarcoat it it was under-resourced for welfare. There were definite laws broken about the lack of welfare for men and women.
The ACO (again in my opinion) does have a lot of work to do to bring it up to an acceptable standard.
What do you mean by welfare?My biggest gripe was the lack of welfare. No matter how you sugarcoat it it was under-resourced for welfare. There were definite laws broken about the lack of welfare for men and women.
The ACO (again in my opinion) does have a lot of work to do to bring it up to an acceptable standard.
Truckosaurus said:
krisdelta said:
...completely insufficient facilities (toilets / food / drink) due to overcrowding (5 cubicles (M+F) +1 disabled for the entirety of Arnage!) ...
Indeed. When I was out at Arnage I noticed the big queues, and before getting the bus over to Mulsanne took a stroll through the campsite area as I was sure there would be additional facilities there, and there was a huge toilet/shower block at the back which no-one was using.Lots of queues for the lavs all round the circuit, which just leads to people peeing against walls.
And further round from the tree behind the stand blokes peeing at the top of bank at the fence straight onto the campsite tents/vans in some cases….which was really bad..
Since 1995, I've witnessed the remarkable transformation of Le Mans. The ACO has steadily improved facilities and overall respectability, creating a more pleasant and organized event. The days of stripper tents and reckless behaviour are thankfully behind us.
However, this positive evolution comes with a significant concern, the sheer volume of spectators, particularly during peak hours on Saturday evening, is straining the circuit's infrastructure. The influx of people seeking food and entertainment creates dangerous bottlenecks, reminiscent of the tragic crowd crushes we've seen at other events.
While the ACO has made commendable efforts, the reality is that the current infrastructure simply cannot accommodate 325,000 people effectively. It's crucial that the ACO acknowledges the potential risks and takes proactive steps to address these crowd management issues.
The ACO's focus on visible improvements, such as grandstands and corporate hospitality, should not overshadow the vital need for adequate crowd safety measures. The experience of marshals and temporary staff on the ground paints a different picture than the one observed from the comfort of a management office.
Le Mans has rightfully earned its reputation as a world-class event, but its legacy will be tarnished if the potential for crowd-related incidents is not addressed. The ACO must prioritize the safety and well-being of every attendee, ensuring that the excitement of the race is not overshadowed by the fear of a potentially dangerous situation.
A few possible improvements -
1) Ban Corporate Guest Movement in Village Areas: Prohibit the use of golf buggies for transporting corporate guests through the village area to prevent congestion and enhance pedestrian safety. (Ban race team personal from their scooters too)
2) Reconsider Large Concerts: Avoid hosting big-name concerts during the event, as the sudden release of large crowds into already congested areas creates significant bottlenecks and potential hazards.
3) Increase Toilet Facilities: Install additional toilet facilities throughout the circuit to accommodate the large number of attendees and reduce wait times.
4) Construct a Direct Link Road: Develop a dedicated link road from the motorway directly into the circuit, incorporating a tunnel or bridge. This will alleviate traffic congestion and improve access, especially once the track is closed, as the current setup with only two public roads is insufficient.
However, this positive evolution comes with a significant concern, the sheer volume of spectators, particularly during peak hours on Saturday evening, is straining the circuit's infrastructure. The influx of people seeking food and entertainment creates dangerous bottlenecks, reminiscent of the tragic crowd crushes we've seen at other events.
While the ACO has made commendable efforts, the reality is that the current infrastructure simply cannot accommodate 325,000 people effectively. It's crucial that the ACO acknowledges the potential risks and takes proactive steps to address these crowd management issues.
The ACO's focus on visible improvements, such as grandstands and corporate hospitality, should not overshadow the vital need for adequate crowd safety measures. The experience of marshals and temporary staff on the ground paints a different picture than the one observed from the comfort of a management office.
Le Mans has rightfully earned its reputation as a world-class event, but its legacy will be tarnished if the potential for crowd-related incidents is not addressed. The ACO must prioritize the safety and well-being of every attendee, ensuring that the excitement of the race is not overshadowed by the fear of a potentially dangerous situation.
A few possible improvements -
1) Ban Corporate Guest Movement in Village Areas: Prohibit the use of golf buggies for transporting corporate guests through the village area to prevent congestion and enhance pedestrian safety. (Ban race team personal from their scooters too)
2) Reconsider Large Concerts: Avoid hosting big-name concerts during the event, as the sudden release of large crowds into already congested areas creates significant bottlenecks and potential hazards.
3) Increase Toilet Facilities: Install additional toilet facilities throughout the circuit to accommodate the large number of attendees and reduce wait times.
4) Construct a Direct Link Road: Develop a dedicated link road from the motorway directly into the circuit, incorporating a tunnel or bridge. This will alleviate traffic congestion and improve access, especially once the track is closed, as the current setup with only two public roads is insufficient.
It is very difficult for the ACO to do all of those for just one weekend a year, the congestion on saturday around our campsite at tertre Rouge was unbeleivable this year and the strain of facilities outside the campsite was to much, However within the campsite the facilities were much improved on the old days, i never had to q for anything and the toilet blocks were cleaned regularly and toilet paper/soap was always available, However for the first time i can remember the rubbish situation got worse, although we did have recycling teams going through the campsite the bins were never emptied all week and by friday the mountains of waste around the bins was getting very bad.
We had grandstand seats in Panorama and used them for the start, but the thought of getting over the Dunlop bridge after the race didn't exactly appeal so we watched from the ACO plot at Chapelle, which wasn't too bad as we got there early to bag a place, although the big screens were playing up with a few minute to the end. Irony was that we then spent far too long sat in the queue to get out of Houx whilst they decided when to open the gates. Hopefully that was a one off, as it just caused chaos.
Observations of our group, all of whom have been going for 20yrs+ pretty much.
- Coldest Le Mans ever in our history, not the wettest, the coldest.
- The French public have returned to Le Mans in far greater numbers than we've ever seen, certainly pre pandemic, last year was the same.
- The racing lived up to the billing, 23 hypercars after years of domination by one or another manufacture, with 9 cars on the lead lap going into Sunday afternoon was outstanding. All classes were great to keep up with and our sweepstake worked out a treat with 3 of 4 getting a win
- Whilst we got trapped on the campsite, the exit off the circuit through mulsanne to Tetre Rouge in 40mins was great.
- It has been going on for a couple of years now, but the village is s
te now. Who wants to spend any time viewing Bosch electric motors, bring back the interesting stalls. It really is corporate overload. ACO merchandise only, really little else.
- The old kids area that's now a manufacturers is equally dull after you've viewed a couple of cars.
- Don't go to the party tent on Thurs night after a long day, drink way too much for the first night and then cloud the whole of Friday in a haze.
- Then we sidled over to Dunlop chicane to get some on track action ..... FCY - the now dreaded term that shaped a lot of our weekend.
- The old qualifying format of previous years before Hyperbks was much preferred. The anticipation of a flyer in the cool air at the start of night qualifying was fantastic viewing, engaging. ... Now no one i spoke to really understood what was happening.
- Do go to town for the drivers parade and drink yourself back to normality. Although the parade lacked a bit of atmosphere this year for us.
- All comments aside about French toilets/toilet habits, it is woefully inadequate and getting worse with the numbers.
- Fanzone Epinettes with food and bar was so welcome last year, this year a big screen and feck all else was a kick in the arse
- Did anyone find tartiflette anywhere, we miss tartiflette and the sausages boiling in fat and oil (which you debated, then had anyway)
- We didn't take a grandstand seat for the first and got inside at the exit of Forest Esses for the start, was a good spot, but it was fecking freezing cold. Stayed for a couple of hours, great.
- We'd got about 3hrs trackside, then headed to camp for grub, we decided to see Simple Minds and escaped before encore (lucky escape by all accts), had never bothered with concerts at LM24 before .... Won't again, carnage and missed the worst bit.
- Up to track, FCY. Back to campsite.
- Head to bed early for an up at 5am to drive out to Mulsanne/Arnage. Stair rods, FCY. Go back to bed.
- Up Sunday, pack up, then it starts raining. In the end we watched under the bell tent in Epinettes anticipating leaving early. Stayed for the finish as you couldn't leave it, then got trapped on campsite as we'd forgotten from last year, didn't see notices that it was closed until 17:00hr.
- It was by far to coldest LM24 we ever did, it was the least amount of trackside action we'd ever watched, the whole village/corporate piece is very disappointing. The food offerings are inadequate, lack choice and the toilet situation is comically abhorrent.
We all like the classic, it's a great event as well. Less people, more stuff to look at .... BUT, and it's the real rub, the racing is poor. I know they're trying, but it always comes across as a fast parade, not a race. We didn't engage with this years race at trackside and essentially had a fantastic lads weekend away, but without the normal racing face to face and watched the last 3-4hrs on a big screen in a campsite. Broadly, because we couldn't be arsed to have the fight int he rain to get a crap view whilst getting wet.
I like that LM evolves and tries to improve, the sense though is that it's not doing it for the campsite attendees, the footsoldiers, the diehards. It's not doing anything to improve (visibly) our engagement/access or ability to enjoy it. We're not surprised, it has always been the case, but it's making it hard to love.
Given the history of shenanigans at the Bike 24, the MotoGP and bike events are designed to bring the crowd in and retain them to avoid the unwanted issues. The MotoGP event is now the biggest on the calendar and regarded by many as the best event of the season. I'm sure they're trying to do similar/learn from it for LM24. However, the scale is totally different and so is the type of crowd.
We're really debating if we want to do it all again, try and do it completely differently to get a different experience or give up with it completely. It is hard to lose the cold/wet/cold weather from the feedback/reflection/review.
Whatever we do next year, we still had a great weekend away, but it seems that it's despite the ACO's attempts rather than their attempts contributing to the experience.
- Coldest Le Mans ever in our history, not the wettest, the coldest.
- The French public have returned to Le Mans in far greater numbers than we've ever seen, certainly pre pandemic, last year was the same.
- The racing lived up to the billing, 23 hypercars after years of domination by one or another manufacture, with 9 cars on the lead lap going into Sunday afternoon was outstanding. All classes were great to keep up with and our sweepstake worked out a treat with 3 of 4 getting a win
- Whilst we got trapped on the campsite, the exit off the circuit through mulsanne to Tetre Rouge in 40mins was great.
- It has been going on for a couple of years now, but the village is s
te now. Who wants to spend any time viewing Bosch electric motors, bring back the interesting stalls. It really is corporate overload. ACO merchandise only, really little else.- The old kids area that's now a manufacturers is equally dull after you've viewed a couple of cars.
- Don't go to the party tent on Thurs night after a long day, drink way too much for the first night and then cloud the whole of Friday in a haze.
- Then we sidled over to Dunlop chicane to get some on track action ..... FCY - the now dreaded term that shaped a lot of our weekend.
- The old qualifying format of previous years before Hyperb
ks was much preferred. The anticipation of a flyer in the cool air at the start of night qualifying was fantastic viewing, engaging. ... Now no one i spoke to really understood what was happening.- Do go to town for the drivers parade and drink yourself back to normality. Although the parade lacked a bit of atmosphere this year for us.
- All comments aside about French toilets/toilet habits, it is woefully inadequate and getting worse with the numbers.
- Fanzone Epinettes with food and bar was so welcome last year, this year a big screen and feck all else was a kick in the arse
- Did anyone find tartiflette anywhere, we miss tartiflette and the sausages boiling in fat and oil (which you debated, then had anyway)
- We didn't take a grandstand seat for the first and got inside at the exit of Forest Esses for the start, was a good spot, but it was fecking freezing cold. Stayed for a couple of hours, great.
- We'd got about 3hrs trackside, then headed to camp for grub, we decided to see Simple Minds and escaped before encore (lucky escape by all accts), had never bothered with concerts at LM24 before .... Won't again, carnage and missed the worst bit.
- Up to track, FCY. Back to campsite.
- Head to bed early for an up at 5am to drive out to Mulsanne/Arnage. Stair rods, FCY. Go back to bed.
- Up Sunday, pack up, then it starts raining. In the end we watched under the bell tent in Epinettes anticipating leaving early. Stayed for the finish as you couldn't leave it, then got trapped on campsite as we'd forgotten from last year, didn't see notices that it was closed until 17:00hr.
- It was by far to coldest LM24 we ever did, it was the least amount of trackside action we'd ever watched, the whole village/corporate piece is very disappointing. The food offerings are inadequate, lack choice and the toilet situation is comically abhorrent.
We all like the classic, it's a great event as well. Less people, more stuff to look at .... BUT, and it's the real rub, the racing is poor. I know they're trying, but it always comes across as a fast parade, not a race. We didn't engage with this years race at trackside and essentially had a fantastic lads weekend away, but without the normal racing face to face and watched the last 3-4hrs on a big screen in a campsite. Broadly, because we couldn't be arsed to have the fight int he rain to get a crap view whilst getting wet.
I like that LM evolves and tries to improve, the sense though is that it's not doing it for the campsite attendees, the footsoldiers, the diehards. It's not doing anything to improve (visibly) our engagement/access or ability to enjoy it. We're not surprised, it has always been the case, but it's making it hard to love.
Given the history of shenanigans at the Bike 24, the MotoGP and bike events are designed to bring the crowd in and retain them to avoid the unwanted issues. The MotoGP event is now the biggest on the calendar and regarded by many as the best event of the season. I'm sure they're trying to do similar/learn from it for LM24. However, the scale is totally different and so is the type of crowd.
We're really debating if we want to do it all again, try and do it completely differently to get a different experience or give up with it completely. It is hard to lose the cold/wet/cold weather from the feedback/reflection/review.
Whatever we do next year, we still had a great weekend away, but it seems that it's despite the ACO's attempts rather than their attempts contributing to the experience.
My mate got the small tartiflette and we reconned it was the same volume as the large as the bowl was deeper.
As above, the missing food van at Epinettes seemed odd. I suspect that one of the suppliers didn't turn up and that was the spot that was left blank.
I noticed there wasn't a food van in Houx either.
As above, the missing food van at Epinettes seemed odd. I suspect that one of the suppliers didn't turn up and that was the spot that was left blank.
I noticed there wasn't a food van in Houx either.
It's far too corporate now. The grid walk used to be expensive but worth it, now it's full of Americans who have no idea what they're looking at, their trophy wives even less so. They all wear as many badges of attendance as they can, helicopter flight, garage tour, grid walk, Panorama 24...
It will never happen that they remove the golf carts, it's the corporate dollar that gives the ACO it's big bucks.
What will happen, as it always cycles, is the small Hypercar teams will stop going because costs vs return on investment doesn't add up and then sooner or later the bigger ones will decide to invest the money in another motorsport because running around between 8th and 16th doesn't give a good return on investment either. Peugeot and Alpine I'm looking at you. For French teams racing at home, they had pitifully small support from the fans. It was all Toyota and Porsche mainly.
Once the hubris of racing a Hypercar wears off, they'll disappear again - along with the huge crowds. Especially since each team must race two Hypercars next year. Not quite doubling their costs, but almost. More corporate hangers on next year then. They have made it all about Hypercar and forgetting the GT3s. LMP2 were only there to increase the numbers this year.
All those saying 'it wasn't so bad' are also sprinkling liberal amounts of ACO in their posts. The vast majority of attendees aren't members and don't have access. So the upshot is €9 for a 'pinte' of weak Carlsberg and being rinsed €18+ for a mediocre burger and a tray of fries. Price gouging. Understandable profiteering, but nonetheless a rip off.
It isn't the same. The racing is artificially close, the Safety Car procedure kills the race. I understand the rain and it's dangerous, but the SC was out for 7.5 of the 24 hours, it definitely wasn't raining for 7.5 hours.
It will never happen that they remove the golf carts, it's the corporate dollar that gives the ACO it's big bucks.
What will happen, as it always cycles, is the small Hypercar teams will stop going because costs vs return on investment doesn't add up and then sooner or later the bigger ones will decide to invest the money in another motorsport because running around between 8th and 16th doesn't give a good return on investment either. Peugeot and Alpine I'm looking at you. For French teams racing at home, they had pitifully small support from the fans. It was all Toyota and Porsche mainly.
Once the hubris of racing a Hypercar wears off, they'll disappear again - along with the huge crowds. Especially since each team must race two Hypercars next year. Not quite doubling their costs, but almost. More corporate hangers on next year then. They have made it all about Hypercar and forgetting the GT3s. LMP2 were only there to increase the numbers this year.
All those saying 'it wasn't so bad' are also sprinkling liberal amounts of ACO in their posts. The vast majority of attendees aren't members and don't have access. So the upshot is €9 for a 'pinte' of weak Carlsberg and being rinsed €18+ for a mediocre burger and a tray of fries. Price gouging. Understandable profiteering, but nonetheless a rip off.
It isn't the same. The racing is artificially close, the Safety Car procedure kills the race. I understand the rain and it's dangerous, but the SC was out for 7.5 of the 24 hours, it definitely wasn't raining for 7.5 hours.
Davwlk said:
While watching on tv this year I cooked us a meal of tinned stewing steak, tinned peas and carrots and tinned new potatoes to help add to the authenticity of our lounge. The next day we had the same but with a tin of chicken in white sauce. Le Mans campsite food - you can't beat it.
Each to his own, but personally many would suggest you absolutely can beat that.Davwlk said:
I remember going home stocked up with tins of Tartiflette which we bought at Carrefour on the way home.
Tins, WTF? It's hardly a complicated dish - slice and parboil some potatoes, fry some onion and bacon, chuck it in an oven dish with some Reblochon or similar cheese and a bit of cream, shove it in the oven until cheese is the temerature of lava.Gassing Station | Le Mans | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff