Hybrid's - to plug or not to plug
Discussion
Partner wants a new car in the new year but is really against the idea of EV. Tried my best to convince her but not happening. So she is wanting a hybrid. Now there's plenty of choices out there of all sorts so finding something she likes isn't difficult. It'll have the benefits obviously of just get up and go in the times she needs.
I'm wanting to know the benefits of the plug-in over the other type of hybrid (no plug). Does anyone really run these apart from taxi drivers? Do the batteries actually last? How does the battery work with both these or is it model specific? I'm at a total loss with hybrids.
I'm wanting to know the benefits of the plug-in over the other type of hybrid (no plug). Does anyone really run these apart from taxi drivers? Do the batteries actually last? How does the battery work with both these or is it model specific? I'm at a total loss with hybrids.
Oh she'll forget for sure. With her working at home all day, the tariff we are on is probably better than an EV one. Her issue with just EV is that she'll forget, then not able to charge up enough.
With the Plug-in hybrids then, do they just solely run on EV and you press a button then it activates the engine? Or is it once it reaches a certain RPM and speed?
With the Plug-in hybrids then, do they just solely run on EV and you press a button then it activates the engine? Or is it once it reaches a certain RPM and speed?
OutInTheShed said:
Depends a lot on big/small and price range of car IMHO.
Also how you weigh things up will vary on your journey mix.
My mate who has had PHEVs for over five years now, reckons the need for hybrids is much reduced due to more chargers and cheaper long range BEVs.
OTOH, many smal/medium non-plug hybrids are very good on fuel so the savings of plugging anything in are not always huge.
If you're not eligible for EV tax breaks it's a mixed bag.
Best to pick some models and do the sums for total cost if that's what drives you.
If you're looking at used cars, it's different but equally messy.
At the end of the day, few people are going for abslute cheapest, most will pay more for something they prefer in one way or another.
She doesn't need a huge range hence why EV would fit but she's really against it. Plus would mean that if needed, she could do a large distance like an ICE without a worry really. Also how you weigh things up will vary on your journey mix.
My mate who has had PHEVs for over five years now, reckons the need for hybrids is much reduced due to more chargers and cheaper long range BEVs.
OTOH, many smal/medium non-plug hybrids are very good on fuel so the savings of plugging anything in are not always huge.
If you're not eligible for EV tax breaks it's a mixed bag.
Best to pick some models and do the sums for total cost if that's what drives you.
If you're looking at used cars, it's different but equally messy.
At the end of the day, few people are going for abslute cheapest, most will pay more for something they prefer in one way or another.
She's after an SUV or something. Not something huge so like a Mini Countryman or something similar. She's also OK with a normal hatchback so there's plenty of options.
I'm more than comfortable for her to be able to plug in the car for a couple of hours during the day as she'll be at home working so 3pin charger would be perfect. Best of both worlds really.
Yeah her usage is really random. Some weeks with her working from home and no call outs, it's basically the school run and maybe a trip to local shop.
Other weeks its that, plus the odd evening call out and maybe a trip into town or to see friends. If we got around 30 miles on EV mode then in theory she'd hardly use any petrol.
I'm assuming with non plug-in then the same applies. It uses EV mode until either you run out of charge or you need more power? Or is it different with those style cars, do they just say use the battery for a handful of miles or up to say 20mph?
Other weeks its that, plus the odd evening call out and maybe a trip into town or to see friends. If we got around 30 miles on EV mode then in theory she'd hardly use any petrol.
I'm assuming with non plug-in then the same applies. It uses EV mode until either you run out of charge or you need more power? Or is it different with those style cars, do they just say use the battery for a handful of miles or up to say 20mph?
wyson said:
Have you actually done the sums? Cost of the cars vs her mileage? Stating the obvious, hybrid versions of a car cost more, the PHEV version, more again.
I do less than 5k miles a year and got a pure petrol car. The sums didn't add up.
Do a spreadsheet, the cost per year of the different options with her use case.
Current bill is around £40 a month for petrol. Some months it's a little more than £40 a month maybe £60 but otherwise it's £40.I do less than 5k miles a year and got a pure petrol car. The sums didn't add up.
Do a spreadsheet, the cost per year of the different options with her use case.
Edited by wyson on Monday 17th June 21:14
So if she got an EV obviously would be cheaper but that boasts sailed for her. She wants a hybrid as it'll use the battery more for her journeys especially on the school run which isn't that far around 2 miles along 30mph roads.
So we are both thinking that it'll practically use the battery until it uses up the battery or if she needs the power.
At the current moment she really doesn't want an EV. Yes it would fit with her mileage but it's more the issue of the faff of charging and if she got a bigger car, we'd more than likely use that for long trips, than use mine.
Another issue with going fully EV would be the fact she works from home during the day, so going on an EV tariff might actually cost us more money.
I've tried to explain that EV would be fine but we all know if she hated the EV, then it would be my fault and never hear the end of it. So get what she wants which a hybrid would be perfectly fine. EV mode would be brilliant for running around the village, basically zero running costs. Then when needed we can use her car, fill up with petrol and go to the coast without a worry to charge up.
Another issue with going fully EV would be the fact she works from home during the day, so going on an EV tariff might actually cost us more money.
I've tried to explain that EV would be fine but we all know if she hated the EV, then it would be my fault and never hear the end of it. So get what she wants which a hybrid would be perfectly fine. EV mode would be brilliant for running around the village, basically zero running costs. Then when needed we can use her car, fill up with petrol and go to the coast without a worry to charge up.
Ken_Code said:
Well yes, of course it would be your fault.
Why don’t you stop trying to make her buy what you want and let her buy what she’d like instead?
For the price of the Toyota CHR we could get a VW ID3 which would be fine most of her use. I'm also not fussed what she gets but I'm more fussed about the cost. I'm more than happy for her to get a Toyota, I love Toyota's so that's good with me.Why don’t you stop trying to make her buy what you want and let her buy what she’d like instead?
TheDeuce said:
Charging faff... You literally put a plug in a socket once a week. It sounds like a plug in hybrid makes the most sense given the minimal trip length, it'll be cheaper than a full EV and still do all it's miles on electric range.
The EV tariff thing is also hard to understand. Working from home adds minimal extra to typical home usage, probably less than 1kwh per day. But charging a decent range PHEV will take more like 30kwh a week, so you want that usage in the cheap hours. You can also move dishwasher, washing machine etc into the cheap hours.
Of course we'd need to discuss with electricity provider about the rates but we don't have a home charger. So charging via 3 pin would be the only option, hence we might be better getting a hyrid like the Toyota CHR. Personally I think that is more than enough and when she gets over this issue she has with EVs then its a good stop gap. The EV tariff thing is also hard to understand. Working from home adds minimal extra to typical home usage, probably less than 1kwh per day. But charging a decent range PHEV will take more like 30kwh a week, so you want that usage in the cheap hours. You can also move dishwasher, washing machine etc into the cheap hours.
TheDeuce said:
Ken_Code said:
Ankh87 said:
Of course we'd need to discuss with electricity provider about the rates but we don't have a home charger. So charging via 3 pin would be the only option, hence we might be better getting a hyrid like the Toyota CHR. Personally I think that is more than enough and when she gets over this issue she has with EVs then its a good stop gap.
Your poor wife. Listen to yourself, you’re not allowing her to choose the car that she wants, and treating her preference as an “issue” to be dealt with.Do you express coercive control in other areas, such as what she wears, who she’s allowed to be friends with or what she eats?
I see the pro's and con's with both so I'm not overly bothered. My main thing is understanding which is better, plug-in or non plug-in. If she got to run on full EV mode doing the school run in the morning (under 3 miles), then brilliant.
TheDeuce said:
Just get a plug in hybrid, you can plug it in if that makes life easier 
It's plainly going to be the cheapest to run because you'll never put fuel in it.
Full EV would probably be more costly to buy for an equivalent car, and it sounds like you simply don't need more range than a PHEV offers anyway.
With the Toyota CHR, would that not just work the same way apart from the plug part? It's plainly going to be the cheapest to run because you'll never put fuel in it.
Full EV would probably be more costly to buy for an equivalent car, and it sounds like you simply don't need more range than a PHEV offers anyway.
She mostly likes the Toyota but is open to other cars as she isn't really sure what is out there. She saw a blue Toyota CHR and really liked it most recently but I'm sure if she saw another car, then that would lure her in as well.
To clarify, we can run a 3 pin via the letter box opening of the front door during the day as my partner works from home, worst case, through the window until we get an out door charger.
My partner only really does say 5-10 miles a day, unless she gets a call-out during the evening or night which is then 20 miles one way. So usual day-to-day a plug-in hybrid with even a small range of 20-25 miles would be fine. Then while still charging, if she is called out, there is zero stress if she has enough range/charge. She knows she has the petrol to keep her going.
To me it's sensible looking at it that way, even though a BEV with 200 mile range would work as well. I've explained that to her but she doesn't want an EV for XYZ reasons. So she's asked me questions about the different hybrids which I'm fairly clueless as they all seem to be different.
My partner only really does say 5-10 miles a day, unless she gets a call-out during the evening or night which is then 20 miles one way. So usual day-to-day a plug-in hybrid with even a small range of 20-25 miles would be fine. Then while still charging, if she is called out, there is zero stress if she has enough range/charge. She knows she has the petrol to keep her going.
To me it's sensible looking at it that way, even though a BEV with 200 mile range would work as well. I've explained that to her but she doesn't want an EV for XYZ reasons. So she's asked me questions about the different hybrids which I'm fairly clueless as they all seem to be different.
TheDeuce said:
paralla said:
My guess is that a granny charger through the letterbox is more hassle than she will be willing to deal with, she will just put petrol in it because it's easier. Also to get the most benefit from a PHEV you want to charge it at cheap overnight electricity rates rather than during the saytime.
Like I said earlier, unless plugging it in is super convenient, it won't get plugged in. If it doesn't get plugged in save your money and get a non-plug in hybrid.
I raised an eyebrow at the letterbox thing too!Like I said earlier, unless plugging it in is super convenient, it won't get plugged in. If it doesn't get plugged in save your money and get a non-plug in hybrid.
"It's perfectly simple darling, you just plug into the socket in the kitchen, run the cable down the hall, pop it through the letterbox, get the granny charger in the boot and hook it up"
Or just get a 13a outdoor socket fitted
Phil. said:
paralla said:
I'm glad we've been able to be super helpfull for the OP and have cleared everything up for him.
I think you have been super helpful to the OP sharing your knowledge of hybrids and I’ve learned few things 
But the thread has taken the direction of most EV/CO2 emissions threads which go on forever as the two sides argue their extreme beliefs are true.
I look forward to seeing how the Toyota hybrid strategy evolves and whether it’s a success for them over the coming years.
Phil. said:
Ankh87 said:
I've pretty much understood now the options. Still aren't sure exactly which would be best or which the better half would want. Would only know on a car by car basis really. There's no point on hybrid if say it only uses the EV up to like 10mph. That seems pointless to me and just means there's not really going to be any cost benefit.
Ankh87 said:
She's after one of those Toyota CHR things. Not a huge fan myself but for her I don't actually care. With the Toyota there isn't anything to plug-in which is better as she can't forget. So I'm thinking might be a better option than say a Mini Countryman Plug-in.
She’s told you what she wants, hassle free economical motoring, and you’re ignoring her. This isn't a debate on what's better phev or EV. It's each to it's own because if you got a phev there's clear benefits such as if you run out of juice you just fill up and go, in a matter of minutes. With an EV it's generally cheaper to run most of the time.
What I were asking really were the differences and benefits of hybrids.
After talking to the gf, she's still not really sold on the idea of plugging anything in even though I've explained the difference.
My plan were to get her into a plug-in then eventually smooth her into an EV once she's ready.
For how little she actually drives mileage wise, the cost of general fuel or electricity is negligible really. She just needs a newish car really as her 2009 is really starting to age now. Mechanically its fine, it's the cosmetics and lack of any sort of infotainment system.
I'm still going to try push her into plug-in and we'll look to get either an outdoor 3 pin or proper charger.
What I were asking really were the differences and benefits of hybrids.
After talking to the gf, she's still not really sold on the idea of plugging anything in even though I've explained the difference.
My plan were to get her into a plug-in then eventually smooth her into an EV once she's ready.
For how little she actually drives mileage wise, the cost of general fuel or electricity is negligible really. She just needs a newish car really as her 2009 is really starting to age now. Mechanically its fine, it's the cosmetics and lack of any sort of infotainment system.
I'm still going to try push her into plug-in and we'll look to get either an outdoor 3 pin or proper charger.
Mild Hybrid is completely pointless. I already know what they do and it is basically glorified stop-start.
I feel like if you can get a plug-in and are able to charge at home and/or at destination (for free), they seem to do a better job of the EV mode within it's range. As for non-plug hybrids, I can see why they are an option as it is possible to run just in EV mode but of course you are limited.
I feel like if you can get a plug-in and are able to charge at home and/or at destination (for free), they seem to do a better job of the EV mode within it's range. As for non-plug hybrids, I can see why they are an option as it is possible to run just in EV mode but of course you are limited.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff