Salary Sacrifice - What EV SUV?

[Kermit power]

Morning all!

I'm looking for an e-SUV on salary sacrifice, and suggestions are welcome!

At the moment the only things I've definitely discounted are anything remotely made by Volvo (including Polestar) as I'm never, ever paying anything to those shysters again and the Hyundai Ionic5, which was looking quite attractive until I discovered it's literally only available in about 8 shades of grey?!?

It needs to be fairly large - three adult-sized kids and a dog, but don't need 7 seats - and reasonably rapid, but no need for stupidly quick. Let's say anything around 6.5sec to 60 downwards.

The BMW iX, iX3 and i5 Touring are all just a bit too expensive, and the Mercedes EQB would possibly be a strong contender if they hadn't failed to prevent the April Fool's-level ugly design make it into production!

At the moment, my shortlist to test drive (in approximate order of preference) is...

Audi Q6
Genesis GV60
Kona EV6 (not the GT though)
Audi Q8 (which seems to have dropped heavily in price with the launch of the Q8)
Skoda Enyaq

Any thoughts on those, or anything else I should look at?

[Kermit power]

Evanivitch said:

Model Y?

I did look at that, but because of the dog I need traditional SUV or Estate.

I'm not really sure what to call the Y - is it a saloon, a hatchback, a coupe??? - but the load height in the boot is way too low to take the dog crate.

[Kermit power]

Evanivitch said:

Kermit power said:

I did look at that, but because of the dog I need traditional SUV or Estate.

I'm not really sure what to call the Y - is it a saloon, a hatchback, a coupe??? - but the load height in the boot is way too low to take the dog crate.

Perhaps you've confused Model Y with Model 3?

My boss runs a Model Y with two young kids and a labradoodle. Perhaps worth taking a more practical check and a test drive?

Otherwise, if those are your requirements then the Enyaq is the best option for estate like features.

No, definitely not confused it. I - and I can hardly believe I'm writing this! - watched enough of a 27 minute video of some bloke measuring one on YouTube to be certain!

The problem is how much it slopes down compared to, say, the Q6 or even the EV6.







I don't know how your boss transports his brood, but I've got a rigid crate in the back of my current XC60 and we can just about get enough kit in around it for a 5 adult long weekend without crushing the poor dog!

I could definitely replicate that in the Q6 or the Skoda (which is basically a Q4?) and I should be able to in the Kia or Genesis, but there's no chance I'd be able to shut the tailgate on the Y.

ETA - This is what I'm replacing. There's a smaller model of the crate that would work for something like the Kia, but nothing that would for the Tesla.

Edited by Kermit power on Wednesday 12th June 12:59

[Kermit power]

Evanivitch said:

I think you're ignoring the depth on the Model Y boot, as it goes down far deeper than any of those non-EV platforms that traditionally use the boot well for batteries.

The Model Y luggage capacity (even without frunk) speaks for itself.

I'm not ignoring it, but it's essentially useless!

Yes, on paper the Y has a massive boot, but it also effectively has a 35cm high lip, with a big (approx. 120l) storage bucket sitting under the main boot floor which is flush with the top of the lip.

This then leaves the space above which has a floor to ceiling height of around 68cm at the back of the seats, dropping to 55cm half way back, then 40cm at the tailgate. Useless for my requirements.

[Kermit power]

Evanivitch said:

Kermit power said:

I'm not ignoring it, but it's essentially useless!

Yes, on paper the Y has a massive boot, but it also effectively has a 35cm high lip, with a big (approx. 120l) storage bucket sitting under the main boot floor which is flush with the top of the lip.

This then leaves the space above which has a floor to ceiling height of around 68cm at the back of the seats, dropping to 55cm half way back, then 40cm at the tailgate. Useless for my requirements.

Fair enough. Seems odd it's perfectly practical to others for the same purpose...

I'm sure it would be if you were just putting the dog in the boot loose. The problem comes with having his crate in there. You can't put it in the under floor bit as you then wouldn't be able to open the door on it, and as it's strapped down to the mounting points, you actually wouldn't be able to access the under floor storage at all without completely removing the crate.

Worth adding, btw, that both the Q6 and the EV6 are EV native platforms, not repurposed ICE chassis, so I'm pretty certain they both have the batteries under the passenger cabin too.

[Kermit power]

gmaz said:

Really? Have you googled "Tesla Y dog crate". Loads of options available and the Tesla is the only car with a standard "Dog Mode"

edit - ok just saw your other posts, but still think a Y is the best option. Take your crate (and dog ) to a Tesla showroom and test it!

edit 2 - In my experience, most Tesla owners seldom use the under boot floor storage after chucking a spare charging cable in there. Remember you also have the frunk for easy access storage.

Seeing as you're so enthusiastic about it, I did just go to take a look, only to discover that I seem to be in a Tesla Bermuda triangle, at least an hour's round trip (if I'm really lucky with traffic) away from dealerships in Heathrow, Gatwick and Guildford!

Given that I can more or less walk to VW, Audi, Kia, Skoda and Mercedes dealerships from home, I'm afraid that's strike 2 for Tesla.

Strike 3 and out is my utterly irrational annoyance at the fact that for some reason they've managed to put metric dimension measurements on all the other European websites but for some reason have decided to use inches on the UK site?!? Who the hell still uses inches in the UK??? It makes me wonder if I'd have to debadge it on ordering if I didn't want it to turn up with an "I love Nigel" bumper sticker and a Reform UK membership card in the glove compartment!

[Kermit power]

RobbyJ said:

And sorry to all Model Y owners but strike 4 is the fact that it looks like the most generic EV blob ever. I'm not a fan of SUV's in general but all the other options to OP has suggested are better looking than the Y.

Well yes, there is also that!

[Kermit power]

osterbo said:

With those requirements, would you consider the ID Buzz GTX when it comes out? I know it's not a SUV, but there's plenty of space, it comes in interesting colours, and because they hold their value well seem to be relatively competitive on salary sacrifice.

I actually would, as it's completely bonkers! Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to wait though, as the current car has to go back in mid-August.

[Kermit power]

mikey_b said:

Mustang Mach-e? Calls itself an SUV, but may be a bit too coupe-ish for your needs with the dog?

Not the Mustang for the reason you give, but I am adding the new Explorer to the list. The top spec AWD version with all options added, 0-62 in 5.3 secs and a quoted range of 328 miles is "only" £59k, which is a bargain compared to a lot of what else is out there!

So far I think the Kia EV6 (uncomfortable seats and boot isn't great) and GV60 (again, absolutely nowhere near to a dealer) are looking like joining the Tesla on the reject list.

I'm also not sure about the VW ID4 now either. I would've definitely kept that on the list for a test drive until sitting in a Skoda Enyaq. They're both based on the same platform and the Skoda is cheaper, but it feels like it's much more expensive! Just everything about it beat the VW in my highly subjective view.

The curveball at the moment is the Audi Q6, because as far as I can tell, none of the UK dealers even have one yet! Having tried out the interior of a Q5 and Q8, though, I'm almost tempted to just order a Q6 anyway, as they both just looked and felt amazing inside! Considering I didn't even test drive the Audi competitor to the XC-60 4 years ago because the seats were so aggressively bucketed and uncomfortable in comparison (something I'd be willing to tolerate in an RS6 or something, but in an SUV, seriously???) so the change from then to now is staggering!

[Kermit power]

patch5674 said:

I too looked at the Audi Q6, but have just pulled the trigger on an i5 Touring 40 (Other half wanted the Audi, cos SUV)

I would look again at the pricing, because my portal (Zenith) is seeing some tidy discounts on the i5.

It has a p11D a good chunk higher than the Q6 and is coming out less net per month.

I was comparing a Q6 Edition 1 (purely on aesthetics and I did fancy the snazzy matrix lights, and it wasn't much more than S Line) and an i5 touring 40 msport comfort plus and tech plus with paint and wheels insured in South Wales.

So unless your portal is showing the Q6 as being really cheap (which is absolutely possible) it is definitely in the same league as the i5 touring price wise.

The iX in this comparison was circa £100 NET more than the i5 and the same as the Q6 ish, but only in xdrive 40 where the range is low due to small battery/dual motor combo (but actually less power than the single motor i5).

ETA: Q6 also has a 40+ week lead time, i5 is 20-22 according to Zenith - this didn't factor in my choice, but it does for many I know.

Useful stuff!

The lead time for the Q6 is 13-17 weeks according to my local dealer though, and unless they have a parallel system with pretend times to con customers that was real, as he showed me on their portal!

I'll take another look at the i5 Touring though.

[Kermit power]

Scabutz said:

I've just gone through the process of picking one and I went for the Kia EV6. I needed something fairly large, mostly for transporting all my cricket kit around.

The Audis were a bit expensive as I'm giving up a car allowance and didn't want to go over it.

I don't like Tesla's, just don't like how they look or the single centre screen.

All the reviews say how great the Kia is. It looks stylish as well, they must have brought a new designer in as there other stuff is dull.

I went for the lower power RWD but top spec GT Line S. Hopefully being delivered next week.

It's in black, which cost a little more but was in stock.

I was rather disappointed by the seats in the EV6. They didn't seem to have much give or lateral support, so it felt like I was sitting on it rather than in it, and would slide off if I cornered too aggressively.

Getting into an Enyak at the Skoda dealership over the road was just on a completely different level!

The biggest surprise in that respect, though, is Audi. Four years ago when I ended up with the Volvo I didn't even bother test driving an Audi because the seat was so bloody uncomfortable, but this time round they're like the world's finest armchairs!

[Kermit power]

PushedDover said:

Kermit power said:

Evanivitch said:

Model Y?

I did look at that, but because of the dog I need traditional SUV or Estate.

I'm not really sure what to call the Y - is it a saloon, a hatchback, a coupe??? - but the load height in the boot is way too low to take the dog crate.

Haters hate, but we have out two labs in out Model Y and ooodles of spae.
Probably more than our A6 Avant tbh.

Only thing wrong with Model Y is peoples perception of it.

I'm sure it would be okay around town, but our most common longer journeys are 5 adults and the dog for long weekends. I can fit all of us plus baggage in the Volvo (just!) with the dog nice and safe in his crate, which I definitely could do in an Enyak, Q6, Ford Explorer etc, but categorically could not in the Tesla.

[Kermit power]

PushedDover said:

Kermit power said:

PushedDover said:

Kermit power said:

Evanivitch said:

Model Y?

I did look at that, but because of the dog I need traditional SUV or Estate.

I'm not really sure what to call the Y - is it a saloon, a hatchback, a coupe??? - but the load height in the boot is way too low to take the dog crate.

Haters hate, but we have out two labs in out Model Y and ooodles of spae.
Probably more than our A6 Avant tbh.

Only thing wrong with Model Y is peoples perception of it.

I'm sure it would be okay around town, but our most common longer journeys are 5 adults and the dog for long weekends. I can fit all of us plus baggage in the Volvo (just!) with the dog nice and safe in his crate, which I definitely could do in an Enyak, Q6, Ford Explorer etc, but categorically could not in the Tesla.

Twaddle imho

Frunk and the space under the boot? Have you measured?

We’ve done it lots.

Jesus fking Christ, what the hell is so difficult to understand about the idea of a fking dog crate?!?!

The crate in question is 66cm tall, so at its highest point the roof of the Tesla sits about 4cm above it, but from there it slopes down too sharply, so if I tried to shut the boot, the trailing edge of the crate would go through the glass.

The crate stays in the car permanently, strapped down to keep it in place, so I have zero Interest in a storage bucket under the floor. I like the system I've got now, it stops the dog from getting the car muddy, and I'm happy that it keeps him safer, so why would I want to change it for an ugly car where my money is getting wasted on pointless and annoying features like autopilot or making it emit fart noises when - and this is the point you don't seem to be understanding - I don't have to because there are plenty of alternatives that can accommodate my wishes perfectly adequately!

[Kermit power]

Evanivitch said:

PushedDover said:

Twaddle imho

Frunk and the space under the boot? Have you measured?

We’ve done it lots.

Tbh I don't follow the logic either. Even if he needed a roof box, he'd still have the benefits of Tesla network if needed. But hey, there you go...

Why would I want to use a roof box and significantly shorten my range when there is a perfectly adequate assortment of cars on the market that let me do exactly what I want without needing to use a roof box, put my dog in a frunk or in any other way compromise on my desired outcome?

[Kermit power]

PushedDover said:

You’re absolutely right - apologies for not understanding the clarity

Let the dog box ownership you have and its design steer you decision on the £60k plus purchase of a car.

It is totally correct not to veer to another design or size of box and to hell with compromising in the efficiency comparison, range, charge network, resale value for the sake of the single cost of crate bought for the dog.

Stick to your guns and buy an alternative to the most popular, longest range and effective offering the market has.

Hail the Dog Box

Do you actually work for Tesla, or has Elon just configured your car to send a high voltage shock through your testes every time someone buys a competitor's car?

Let's look at your points one by one though...

1. Efficiency? At this price point I doubt anyone really cares about Efficiency so long as the total range is adequate, but still, according to ev-database.org, the Enyaq uses 257-285 Wh/mi vs 267-288 for the Y. The Q6 is significantly higher, but has a longer absolute range anyway, and nobody has ever bought an Audi for the fuel efficiency!

2. Range? The Tesla quotes 283-331 miles, the Enyaq 247-348 and the Q6 339-381. Oh no! How shall I cope without the shorter range of the Tesla?!?

3. Charging network? Well yes, that's absolutely critical given that I've got a charge point at home and have driven more than 250 miles in a day 4 times in the past 4 years! I think I'll be able to cope somehow.

4. Resale value? Who cares! I'm doing a Salsac lease, not buying one, so residuals are irrelevant beyond calculating the monthly cost, so if I'm happy with that from the outset of the lease, that's all I need to worry about.

So, you objective justifications for buying a Tesla hold about as much water as Rishi Sunak's claims about Labour tax raises, which just leaves individual subjective choice, and for me, subjectively, the Y lags miles behind the Enyaq and the Q6 which are my current front runners depending on whether I let myself be swayed primarily my my wallet or my heart.

The Y is - again in my individual view - much uglier inside and out, impractical (it's nothing to do with the cost of the dog crate but the height of it, and the pointless under floor storage is just, well, pointless!), and full of features that I simply will not use even once, such as autopilot and making it fart when you indicate.

To be honest, you're starting like you're trying to justify your own purchase to yourself through your buyer's remorse, but you can rest assured that I won't be making the same mistake.

It is making me think about what I really want from a car though, and given that over 95% of my driving is either urban driving in SW London & Surrey with almost all the remainder being motorways, I'm coming round to the thought that there's no need for the Audi levels of performance, so why not get a fully loaded Enyaq L&K for £456 net including insurance and spend the £186 per month I'll save vs a Q6 Edition 1 on something nice? BTW, your beloved Long Range Y with only metallic paint as an option sits between the two on £545 per month.

[Kermit power]

Sheepshanks said:

You've mentioned Enyaq about 50 times in the thread - why not just get one if that's what you want?

Skoda dealer told me they shift loads of them through Motability, as the grant fully covers the cost.

Given that your two contributions to the thread have been focused on the Enyaq, I suspect it's more just a case of you being rather triggered by it for some reason?

Having said that, I suspect that is the route I'm going to take.

All things being equal I would definitely prefer a well specced Q6, but I can think of plenty of things to do with the extra cash and more importantly even if I ordered one today, I'd probably still be waiting 2-3 months without a car once my current one goes back.

I started the thread completely open to anything which was the right size, had a reasonable range and was reasonably quick.

So far, the only ones I've actually excluded because the Skoda is - in my opinion - the better car are the VW ID.4 and the Audi Q4. All three are built on the same VAG platform, the Skoda was a much nicer place to be than the VW, and whilst the Audi was really nice as well, it's a lot more expensive.

[Kermit power]

thecremeegg said:

This little battle has kept me amused hah!
I nearly got a Model Y but the seats were incredibly uncomfortable for me so I went with an i4 in the end and I'm glad I did.
I do have to agree re the dog crate, you can just get a different one rather than ruling a car out because of it. That said, you don't want a Tesla which is fair enough, they have a good drivetrain but everything else is just worse (imo!) than other cars. That single screen is also a crime against ergonomics whilst driving.

Getting a smaller crate would be fine if I got a smaller dog to go in it!

From what I can work out, I'd be limited to about a 45cm max height where the back of the crate would otherwise hit the rear window, and the dog is about 55cm tall sitting down.

[Kermit power]

Basil Brush said:

Have you mentioned the EV9? Saw my first one on the road a few days ago and looks much better than the pictures.

I'm definitely going to take a look at one. I'm slightly concerned it might be a bit too massive though!

[Kermit power]

mikey_b said:

Comments on the Model Y seats are interesting. I was in Houston a couple of months ago and a colleague there had got one shortly before. As is the way in Houston, even going for lunch involves a drive of 20 miles or so to somewhere ’close’ so I did a fair few miles in it as a passenger. Seats seemed perfectly comfortable to me - guess we’re all different.

Having to use the touchscreen to set the wipers going would have driven me up the wall. I was amused though when he showed me the touchscreen button for opening the glovebox - he dropped it down to demo it, and sitting there on top of some papers was his 9mm Sig Sauer.

What???

That's just insane!!!

You have to use a touch screen to turn the wipers on?!? And people actually buy this???

[Kermit power]

gmaz said:

Kermit power said:

What???

That's just insane!!!

You have to use a touch screen to turn the wipers on?!? And people actually buy this???

That's bks, you push the end of indicator stalk, but they are usually on auto so you don't need to do anything.

I have the left scrollwheel set to open the glovebox, so I don't have to use the touch screen for that either.

Can you choose a different function for the indicator button? If so, it probably makes sense to in Texas.