Best £15k used EV?
Discussion
A confluence of factors have prompted me to consider buying my first EV. My 'fun' car is now also quite capable for long trips, so the 'sensible' car doesn't have to cross continents. However, I'd still like to have half-decent range as the fun car may not be suitable to use in all circumstances.
The EV would live on a driveway, so I'd hope home charging won't be a problem. Driving is mixed A and B roads and Dual Carriageways / Motorways, likely less urban although it will see some. Usage is mostly weekends going up to 40 miles each way for a walk/cycle/canoe. It will probably see occasional longer trips up to ~180 miles but if it could do those with a single charging stop with reasonable flexibility, that would be ok.
It only really needs to seat two adults, but I want to be able to get a bicycle in the back with the rear seats down.
My current petrol 'sensible' car could probably sell for approximately £15k, so if I can find an EV for that much it would be a straight swap on value, but hopefully save quite a bit on running costs and and get to enjoy the smoothness and linear response of an EV and its convenience on shorter trips - plus trimming my carbon footprint.
Range, performance, handling, ride, comfort and convenience of charging are all factors although I appreciate obviously the budget means there will be compromises.
I'm not absolutely going to do this right away, but I'm actively considering making the switch sometime this year.
My current shortlist is:
Nissan Leaf Mk2 - unfortunately the 62kWh e+ versions seem mostly above this mark, and the 40kWh seem a little short on range but worth considering. Hired one for a day and it was decent apart from charging.
Renault Zoe 50kWh - good range, unsure how they shape up in other ways
Peugeot e-208
Vauxhall Corsa e (a less fashionable 208)
MG5 - probably not, but a contender on paper
Hyundai Ioniq 38kWh - this is a bit interesting because it has a smaller battery but apparently gets really good efficiency even on the motorway, I've seen 170 miles at 70mph quoted. It would also have a couple of years warranty remaining.
I've mostly ruled out:
BMW i3 - even the 42kWh doesn't seem to give that good range
VW e-Golf - poor range
Kia Soul - Ioniq is better (?)
Merc B-Class - far too short range
Seat Mii - poor range
Any thoughts on the merits of my contenders, any car I've ruled out I should reconsider, and any other options I've not thought of?
Thanks all for the info 
I wouldn't expect to be making trips long enough to need more than 1 stop, so probably the larger "initial" range of the 38kWh would be better.
My concerns are (a) range / public charging on the occasional longer trip esp in winter (b) possible expensive issues, although a 2019-on car might be better sorted? and (c) it generally seems intended as a city car, which isn't how I would use it.
However the i3 probably has the best 'wife acceptability factor' of the possible options at this price point.
Toaster Pilot said:
I've been making some videos recently where I review what's on the used market for a particular model - I won't link to them so as not to fall foul of the rules but some of the feedback from owners in the comments is pretty interesting
The Hyundai Ioniq brought forward a fair bit of discussion around whether you're actually better off with the 28kWh model over the 38 - it has greatly superior charging performance so although it'll go less far you can actually go point to point faster if you need multiple charging stops!
Most people seem extremely happy with them too (both 28 and 38 owners) - I've never known a car to have such unilaterally positive feedback!
Thanks, funnily enough I found a helpful video on YT just now The Hyundai Ioniq brought forward a fair bit of discussion around whether you're actually better off with the 28kWh model over the 38 - it has greatly superior charging performance so although it'll go less far you can actually go point to point faster if you need multiple charging stops!
Most people seem extremely happy with them too (both 28 and 38 owners) - I've never known a car to have such unilaterally positive feedback!
I wouldn't expect to be making trips long enough to need more than 1 stop, so probably the larger "initial" range of the 38kWh would be better.
ChocolateFrog said:
I'd still go for the i3.
If you have the ability to charge at home and other cars then range won't be the bugbear you think it will be.
Noted, I'll put that back on the shortlist.If you have the ability to charge at home and other cars then range won't be the bugbear you think it will be.
My concerns are (a) range / public charging on the occasional longer trip esp in winter (b) possible expensive issues, although a 2019-on car might be better sorted? and (c) it generally seems intended as a city car, which isn't how I would use it.
However the i3 probably has the best 'wife acceptability factor' of the possible options at this price point.
500E - 24kWh too limited, 42kWh starts from £17k it seems, although agree a good contender if I stretch the budget.
The van is certainly a possibility I'd not considered, however I think a Mk2 Leaf with the same drivetrain would be more appealing, as I don't need that much space.
If you were looking to resurrect the Mini specifically, I don't think you'd come up with the i3. However I do see the similarity in it being a clean-sheet small car with no preconceptions, so it's arguably a comparably bold and far-reaching small car in 2013 as the Mini was in 1959.
Depreciation is a good point. I'm initially thinking in terms of a ~2 year ownership.
It looks like the median asking price of a 2020 Ioniq is £15400, while a 2018 model is £13200 (with the smaller battery). So £2200 depreciation over two years.
EVs have recently come down quite a lot in value, to me this decreases the chance that there will be further big falls in future (beyond normal depreciation). I think a cheap EV with a half-decent range (150 miles more or less) will still be reasonably valued into the future.
In terms of battery degradation I'm aware of the issues the Leaf has, at least the Mk1. Otherwise batteries seem to be holding up well and if anything the rate of decline seems to reduce over time rather than falling off a cliff. However this is just from a bit of quick googling.
The only PHEV I'd be interested in is the Note e-Power, because that has fully electric drive. But generally the extra maintenance of an ICE puts me off.
Taycan - I've decided to invest the major part of my motoring budget in the 'fun' car, since that way it brings me most enjoyment and fun cars don't depreciate as sharply. Hence looking for a budget EV, rather than something that will be shedding ten grand a year.
The van is certainly a possibility I'd not considered, however I think a Mk2 Leaf with the same drivetrain would be more appealing, as I don't need that much space.
If you were looking to resurrect the Mini specifically, I don't think you'd come up with the i3. However I do see the similarity in it being a clean-sheet small car with no preconceptions, so it's arguably a comparably bold and far-reaching small car in 2013 as the Mini was in 1959.
Depreciation is a good point. I'm initially thinking in terms of a ~2 year ownership.
It looks like the median asking price of a 2020 Ioniq is £15400, while a 2018 model is £13200 (with the smaller battery). So £2200 depreciation over two years.
EVs have recently come down quite a lot in value, to me this decreases the chance that there will be further big falls in future (beyond normal depreciation). I think a cheap EV with a half-decent range (150 miles more or less) will still be reasonably valued into the future.
In terms of battery degradation I'm aware of the issues the Leaf has, at least the Mk1. Otherwise batteries seem to be holding up well and if anything the rate of decline seems to reduce over time rather than falling off a cliff. However this is just from a bit of quick googling.
The only PHEV I'd be interested in is the Note e-Power, because that has fully electric drive. But generally the extra maintenance of an ICE puts me off.
Taycan - I've decided to invest the major part of my motoring budget in the 'fun' car, since that way it brings me most enjoyment and fun cars don't depreciate as sharply. Hence looking for a budget EV, rather than something that will be shedding ten grand a year.
Nomme de Plum said:
Surely a potential buyer will check battery health for themselves when they test the car or maybe ask specifically before they visit the garage.
That raises a good question - if buying a used EV, should I attempt to check the health of the battery and if so how?I know the old Leaf has the bars on the side of the dash display, but I'm not aware of other EVs displaying the battery health.
My assumption was that with a newish car (2-3 years) still under battery warranty, that wasn't really an issue.
Shabaza said:
This car will do well in excess of 250 miles and is under budget.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306178...
The Kona is interesting and certainly has a good range, however with 2 out of 122 cars being sub £15k (considering just the 2020 models), it feels like one would need to budget a couple more grand to have a choice of cars and a decent chance of finding a good'un.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306178...
Bobtherallyfan said:
A few minutes spent reading the Zoe’s NCAP results should shorten your list quickly. Quite why Renault actually took the conscious decision to remove safety features they originally fitted is astonishing.
That's not my perspective.Yes they removed the head-level side airbag. However NCAP say that it would only have got one star even with that unchanged. ( https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/renaul... ). And Renault say they removed it as it's rarely useful in the real world, presumably as most side impacts are below head level. So that isn't a big part of the story.
Anyway, I could instead buy a BMW i3. But the i3 was last tested in 2013, alongside the Zoe - when the i3 got 4/5, and the Zoe got 5/5. Accounting for one star's worth of upper side airbag on the Zoe, they're basically the same - if the i3 was re-tested today it could easily be another zero or one star car. Hence it says 'rating expired' on the i3's page on the NCAP site, because the 4/5 it got in 2013 would more than likely be lower if re-tested to today's stricter standards.
I could get an Ioniq, but that also has an expired safety rating from 2016, again before recent ratcheting up of the rating levels.
Only the Peugeot appears to have a 2019 test and a still-valid 4/5 stars.
Now, from this I could draw the conclusion that I should forget the other three and buy the Peugeot.
Alternatively I could consider that first, all these cars got high ratings when they were launched within the last ten years, so they're all pretty safe really in the grand scheme of things. Secondly, NCAP have increasingly broadened their scope to include features that I don't feel do much to protect me, such as pedestrian safety and the extent of hard-to-disable driver
I've had a play on A Better Route Planner modelling the worst-case trip I'd do, 185 miles home to parents at Christmas, with various cars.
Renault Zoe 50 kWh
Hyundai Ioniq 38 kWh
Hyundai Ioniq 28 kWh
Peugeot e208 50 kWh
Leaf 40 kWh
BMW i3 42 kWh
Kona 64 kWh
The 40kWh Leaf is out, two stops and a total of 44 minutes charging. The others bar the Kona would all need a single stop of 11-27 minutes, all acceptable, except the i3 which would need a 35 min charge. Interestingly the 28 kWh Ioniq needs two stops but still totals 23 minutes charging, vs 27 minutes for the single stop in the 38 kWh - I know TP said this, but it's funny to see it actually laid out.
The Kona is the only one that would do it without a stop. It looks like quite a few of these have been for sale for a couple of months, so it seems plausible that ones at 16 or 17k could be bought for a grand off.
I know this trip is worst-case and doesn't reflect my intended usage, but I'm using it as a benchmark for range in general.
Fundamentally I'm not that bothered about the 185 mile trip, it's the sort of thing I might do 0 or 1 times a year. Unless it's really snowy (rare) I can take the fun petrol car if needed, or travel at a less busy time, or accept a bit more hanging around.
The general use-case is up to 70 miles in a day, the ability to do occasional longer trips is nice but not vital, it's ok if I have to stop and charge even accepting it may not be totally convenient. I'd also want something with a bit of surplus range so I can do the ~70 miles without necessarily worrying about driving economically.
The upshot is I'm torn; part of me says that for £16-17k I could get a 64kWh Kona which would do any trip I'd attempt without a stop, so may as well pay a small amount extra for that. The other part of me is unwilling to buy a bigger, heavier car than I really need for 98% of its trips. At the other extreme I could pick up a 66-reg Ioniq 28kWh which would probably do fine (100-120 miles range), has a small light battery and will retain its road tax exemption past 2025, when all 17-reg onwards cars have to start paying. Arguably that's the best way to tackle the saving money element of this, and if I have to use the fun car for a few more trips, fine.
Anyway I'll need to run these options past my wife, who I imagine will rule out half of them straight away for reasons unrelated to anything we've discussed here.
bennno said:
E corsa seems exceptional value with fast charging and large battery.
True, it's the same Stellantis powertrain and platform as the e208 but £2-3k cheaper.I think probably I'd rather pay the extra for the Peugeot as it seems to be described as the nicer car to sit in and to drive, and I have fond memories of the 306 I had 25 years ago. However if I find that the French brand's "i-cockpit" and tiny steering wheel don't agree with me, the Corsa might replace it in the shortlist as a more conventional alternative.
Shabaza said:
This car will do well in excess of 250 miles and is under budget.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306178...
Just coming back to looking at Konas - this car AF20 RUV, and all the grey Konas at the bottom of the market on AT right now, are all ex-taxis.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306178...
The cheapest non-taxi is this teal car at just under £18k.
Private hire use doesn't invalidate the Hyundai 5yr warranty, just means a 100k mile limit applies which shouldn't be a big deal. I'm interested in if there are any other known downsides to taxi use (other than the primer grey paint job).
Toaster Pilot said:
How do you know they’re ex taxis?
If we look at the example car in the link:Vehicle registered: 26/08/2020 (from the ad on AT)
Date tested: 26 August 2021 (from the government MoT check website)
Date tested: 21 February 2022
Date tested: 17 August 2022
If it was an ordinary private car, its first MoT wouldn't be due until next month when it turns three years old. The fact it had a test at a year old and two more since is strong evidence of minicabbing.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Same for the others, bar the many examples advertised by Saxton 4x4 which to their credit state "Ex Private Hire" in the ads.
BBYeah said:
It's slightly over budget perhaps but there's a lot of Model S's around 20k now. Cleevely will fix most issues relatively cheaply.
Yeah, early Model S around 20k, base Model 3s 22k-ish. I agree they have a lot to offer, but probably I don't want/need to spend that much.It's a classic case of scope/budget creep - start off looking for something at the £15k my current car's worth, well for a couple of grand more you could get a Kona with proper range, then for a couple of grand more than that you could get a Tesla with their charging network and even more performance, .... by the end of the thread I'm sat in a Porsche dealer signing on the dotted line for a £150k Taycan Turbo S. ;-)
OutInTheShed said:
The cheapest Teslas on AT are 9 years old.
The Konas for similar money are 3 years old.
Crudely, the Kona has 9 years good life left in it and the Tesla has 3?
£15/17 or so for a 3 year old Kona with over 250 miles range looks like good value compared to older, shorter range cars.
Yes, it's more like £17k-19k I think realistically but I agree it's a bit of a sweet spot given how much extra range you get over anything cheaper.The Konas for similar money are 3 years old.
Crudely, the Kona has 9 years good life left in it and the Tesla has 3?
£15/17 or so for a 3 year old Kona with over 250 miles range looks like good value compared to older, shorter range cars.
And yes, a 3yo Hyundai with two years manufacturer warranty still remaining feels quite a different maintenance prospect to a 8-9yo Tesla.
I actually think most EVs will go on to 15-20 years like ICEs can, there doesn't yet seem to be any common failures to cause them to be scrapped apart from a fairly small proportion of battery failures. The worst are the Leafs with their uncontrolled battery temperatures, even they are mostly still usable just as a third car for nipping into town / leaving at the station, i.e. a more limited use-case. This could be proven wrong as the earliest realistic EVs haven't got to that age yet, just not seeing yet what would kill them. However given the issues with early Leafs and the risks of early Teslas, the wider choice of newer EVs seems attractive.
Max5476 said:
I hadn't realised what was now available around for under £15,000 for EVs now. We were thinking of changing one of our cars this year, initially plan had been to replace my wifes car with a bigger family friendly car, but I might now consider replacing it with an EV for my commute (85 miles a day) for the running cost saving. We can keep the Seat Leon for the longer journeys, or perhaps just replace both the cars at once.
I had better pull together a cost spreadsheet and see what it says
I'm falling into the camp that if it's only £10,000 - £15,000 I could stomach that loss if EV depreciated to £0. As per the previous posters in this thread, when looking at a 3-year old car with some battery warranty left, 3 years should be certain, and 5 years should be reasonably realistic for a guaranteed life.
Yeah, lots of negative news about the EV values crash, when I just see it as a good opportunity to buy one I had better pull together a cost spreadsheet and see what it says
I'm falling into the camp that if it's only £10,000 - £15,000 I could stomach that loss if EV depreciated to £0. As per the previous posters in this thread, when looking at a 3-year old car with some battery warranty left, 3 years should be certain, and 5 years should be reasonably realistic for a guaranteed life.
. It seems that most manufacturers guarantee the battery for 8 years / 100k miles, so you should have another 5 years guaranteed if buying at 3yo. And it seems battery failures aren't common even beyond that mark.
85 miles isn't too bad, it would seem that most of the EVs discussed on this thread should do that comfortably.
bennno said:
Id start by looking at a larger battery 500E, or a Corsa E or the Peugeot Equivalent. Anything with 42-50kwh battery and 100kw + charging capability is relatively flexible and future proofed.
Even the early 28kWh Ioniq seems to do 100-120 miles at 70mph, and could do a 20-80% charge in 15-20 minutes at ~70kW.https://insideevs.com/news/523652/hyundai-ioniq-28...
The question is, when you have a primary use-case of fairly limited range (85 mile round trip), do you just choose something that will do that one job satisfactorily, or are you tempted to spend "a bit" more for a car that will have the flexibility to tackle other journeys too.
TooLateForAName said:
How about the Soul?
marmite looks, but owners love them and seem to be 3-4k cheaper than a niro. I think better cabin space but not so much boot space.
64kWh Souls seem to start at £20k (bar one example) on AT, whereas there are quite a few Konas at £16-17k. Otherwise yeah I'd probably consider the Soul alongside the Kona as they seem a similar proposition.marmite looks, but owners love them and seem to be 3-4k cheaper than a niro. I think better cabin space but not so much boot space.
stevemcs said:
Taxis don’t normally have a mot, the Hackney test replaces it. They only need a mot if being used privately. It’s the same as the police.
A taxi company wouldn’t pay for an mot and Hackney test - or they don’t around here.
Yes and no - it seems to depend on the local authority. Some run their own testing scheme which replaces the need for MoTs just as you say, whereas others require a standard MoT but at more frequent intervals than a private car.A taxi company wouldn’t pay for an mot and Hackney test - or they don’t around here.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-testing-guide/c-de... says "Taxis and private hire vehicles that are licensed by certain authorities do not need to have an MOT certificate"
however https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-... TFL says "All taxis and private hire vehicles more than 12 months from the date of manufacture are required to pass two MOT tests as a condition of continued annual licensing"
So an anomaly either way could point to taxi use.
mikeiow said:
...
I honestly can’t see what equivalent EV we would replace ours with….perhaps why we still have it, 4yrs in!
Thanks for the testimonial, sounds like pretty much what I'm hoping for :-)I honestly can’t see what equivalent EV we would replace ours with….perhaps why we still have it, 4yrs in!
Fairly straightforward to replace the tyres with MPS5s if I feel the Nexens are a limiting factor, as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvFVVqK-Fl4
It's hard to avoid the sense that Hyundai/Kia are a bit ahead of most companies in the low price, long range, efficiency and connectivity of their EVs, even if they've had to learn from a few mistakes on the way, as long as they're sorted under warranty.
Vsix and Vtec said:
Personally, when my time comes and i have to go the inevitable eco route, I'll be getting a Honda Insight.
The original Insight is pretty cool and a definite collector's item.Personally though I really like the absolute precision of electric drive, the silence, smoothness, and seamless torque. So as one of two cars, it really feels for me like an opportunity to enjoy this, as well as trimming running costs.
Went to Powerlease on Sat, got to sit in (but not drive) a wide range of candidates.
The Kona felt a bit cheap inside (fair enough, it is cheap for the range it offers, but still). It's also a bit short to be getting a bicycle in the back, given I don't really want to be faffing around removing wheels. i3, 208 and Zoe also off the list for this reason.
The Leaf felt surprisingly nice inside, and the seats comfortable. The main comfort issue was I didn't find a reach adjustment for the steering on the example we sat in; reading online it seems to have come in from 2021, although apparently doesn't adjust very much.
The Niro felt nicer inside than the Kona, more akin to the Leaf in general feel ("semi-premium"?). It also has a longer load bay.
We also sat in a Model 3, I really quite liked this, the low beltline is something I like in cars. I guess I'd adapt to using a touchscreen for everything. However I hadn't realised until now, but it's a four-door saloon, not a five-door hatch. Really surprised by this given the 'senior' Model S is a hatch. Anyway, that rules it out and avoids me being tempted to apply man maths to justify spending another £8k or so. Really nice car though.
My wife wants the Leaf. I think the e-Niro is a more sensible purchase (albeit for a grand or two more), slightly better range, in warranty, more practical boot space (Leaf has a huge load lip then big step up to folded rear seats). Plus I have slight concerns over Chademo charging in the future (see other thread).
The Niro doesn't excite me to look at, but it's nice inside and seems like the best fit for what I want overall.
I'm going to try and visit the Nissan dealer to sit in a Leaf with reach adjustable steering, if I can't get comfortable then that's an easy decision. Otherwise it's still in the running against the Niro.
P675 said:
I've been looking at original Ioniqs myself. For under 15k you can get a circa 2017 Premium SE spec. This comes with things that I now can't live without after having a £3800 Lexus GS, auto cruise, decent audio (need to try it out though), heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel. I'm not in love with the looks but if I like the way it drove I might get one.
The only other car in my price range that I can easily find with such gadgets is a newer GS or a Jag XJ, but with the Ioniq the fuel cost charging at home is cut by 2/3.
I notice the PHEV ioniqs are more expensive, with some electrics being dirt cheap. What's the reason for this? The range just isn't great compared to newer EVs?
I've been reading up on these.The only other car in my price range that I can easily find with such gadgets is a newer GS or a Jag XJ, but with the Ioniq the fuel cost charging at home is cut by 2/3.
I notice the PHEV ioniqs are more expensive, with some electrics being dirt cheap. What's the reason for this? The range just isn't great compared to newer EVs?
The Ioniq Electric came out in 2016 with a 28kWh battery; this was upgraded to 38kWh in 2020.
The later model has been tested to do 171 miles at 70mph; that would put the earlier one at about 125 motorway miles I think.
So fundamentally it's a fairly small battery, and even with great efficiency of 4.5 miles/kWh @70mph, it's still a moderate range. The upside is that it fast charges very quickly, with a peak ~70 kW, so can make good time on longer tripsif you can find conveniently located available working fast chargers (100 kW).
But basically the early models have a relatively short range and so prices reflect that. If that works for your journeys then it's a great buy, if not then a hybrid would probably be less frustrating, or step up to one of the 64kWh Hyundai or Kias for a bit more money.
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