LPG and performance cars

[Fordo]

Do the two ever work well together?

I'm sure im not the only one wondering this with todays high fuel prices.

I dont want to admit defeat and get something boring.

Ive been wondering about getting a car thats already been converted (so someone else has taken on the big cost of the conversion.)

Apart from the extra cost of getting the lpg system serviced every once in a while (which would be easily ofset by the savings made in fuel bills), and loosing a little space in the boot or spare wheel well, are there any downsides? Does lpg cause are more wear and tear on the engine?

I've seen some great lpg barge bargins around- Audi S8's and the like.

There also seem to be a few Skoda octavia VRS's around with lpg- but the thought of a turbo'd car with lpg concerns me- or is that nothing to worry about?

What does everybody think about performance cars and lpg?

[Kieran XJR]

I've read that LPG works well on large engines and can also give better performance than petrol due to a higher octane rating.

[OllieBirmingham]

I heard the opposite....

[Isoproturon1]

Certainly doesn't seem to work very well in Volvo T5s but has been fine in a lot of 'normal' cars I've driven with LPG.

[halo25]

Have a look round the net, loads of success stories!

Couple of threads on the scoobynet forum with people running subarus on LPG - one guy even installed his own. Far as I know there is a big power impreza running LPG as well.

With any performance car you have to fit the best of the best system - which will cost a bit.

I think the old days of 10% power loss are a myth with the new systems as well.

[The Penguin]

I believe there is infact a performance advantage to be had from LPG due to higher RON. It's uncommon for these maps because all systems unless very specialist will retain the petrol map incase LPG is unavailable.

[richyb]

Kieran XJR said:

I've read that LPG works well on large engines and can also give better performance than petrol due to a higher octane rating.

OllieBirmingham said:

I heard the opposite....

I've heard both aswell!. I know a guy with a 200sx touring running on lpg and he thinks it works very well with a turbo but I also know someone with a Vovlo T6 who said it feels slower. I am not sure if these are both placebo's though to be honest.

[Isoproturon1]

The T5s have been known to cut out at high speed with LPG though not sure which system.

[Dracoro]

Remember to factor in the rises in tax/duty that will apply to LPG over the coming years.

By the time you offset the installation cost etc. the cost per litre of LPG will be nearly at normal petrol levels. Then all you've got is a car with a tank taking up half the boot space!

[richyb]

Isn't there a 3 year plan with lpg? I thought I heard something about no plans to change taxation rates on it till 2011. Maybe I imagined it.

[halo25]

The Government continued to demonstrate its long term commitment to LPG in the 2008 Budget when the Chancellor announced a continuation of the existing guarantee for low fuel duty for LPG through to 2011. The duty will rise by no more than 1p per litre per year more than petrol or diesel. The rates announced are:

* The fuel duty increases planned for the 1st April will now take place on 1st October 2008. At this time duty on LPG will increase only by .135p per litre more than petrol/diesel.
* As previously announced, on 1st April 2009 fuel duty on LPG will rise by .035p per litre more than petrol / diesel
* On 1st April 2010 all fuel duty rates will increase by .5p per litre plus inflation. As a result the specific duty rate will not be known until then.
* This means that the price of LPG at the pumps should continue at around half the price of petrol and diesel for the foreseeable future.

SO - no matter what its still going to be cheaper than petrol for a while, and thats the whole point isn't it? Its not just about LPG increasing but also tracking the price of petrol to run that particular vehicle at the same time. It does mean you can run something more "fun" for longer surely?

[Badgerboy]

I think it's also possible to buy LPG wholesale. A large tank in your garage, costing 30p a litre, makes it sound a little more attractive.

I justs worked out if that I bought a kit from this site http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/home.html (First that came from Google), and fitted it myself, it would pay for itself in 12 months, maybe less if the petrol duty goes up.

It's got me thinking at least! (Now, need to work out where to stick the tank in a coupe)

Edited by Badgerboy on Monday 5th May 19:41

Edited by Badgerboy on Monday 5th May 19:41

[Jason_W]

Badgerboy said:

I think it's also possible to buy LPG wholesale. A large tank in your garage, costing 30p a litre, makes it sound a little more attractive.

I justs worked out if that I bought a kit from this site http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/home.html (First that came from Google), and fitted it myself, it would pay for itself in 12 months, maybe less if the petrol duty goes up.

It's got me thinking at least! (Now, need to work out where to stick the tank in a coupe)

Edited by Badgerboy on Monday 5th May 19:41

Edited by Badgerboy on Monday 5th May 19:41

Sorry, not feasible as you cannot site a liquid (or any) installation 'indoors' as there are siting requirements to protect the vessels from external combustion sources such as buildings. You won't be able to purchase LPG at those prices in today's market, at least not in the volumes you're talking about plus you have to factor in duty levels on top of the base price.

However, even at 60ppl its a goer and I suspect that Tories will treat LPG far more leniently than the Socialist scum (sorry, had to get that off my chest) we currently have but that is a personal opinion.

The key to any autogas installation is to ensure that convertor is top drawer. Some of the horror stories people are alluding to will come from the numerous bodgers who have jumped on the bandwagon over the years and given the industry a bad name.

The tank space objection is a non-starter these days as its possible to purchase doughnut tanks that replace the existing petrol tank with a LPG tank that contains a petrol tank within - if you see what I mean?

[SplatSpeed]

works well on a monaro

[richyb]

Badgerboy said:

I think it's also possible to buy LPG wholesale. A large tank in your garage, costing 30p a litre, makes it sound a little more attractive.

I justs worked out if that I bought a kit from this site http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/home.html (First that came from Google), and fitted it myself, it would pay for itself in 12 months, maybe less if the petrol duty goes up.

It's got me thinking at least! (Now, need to work out where to stick the tank in a coupe)

I know someone who has used tinytech before and the tank, solenoids and bits all seem to be of good quality. DIY fitting would be a bit risky though unless your very experienced in that sort of thing. Highly flammable and DIY aren't great friends.

[bordseye]

I have a Volvo fitted with lpg at the factory. OK its not a performance car (standard S60 auto - yawn!) but :
1/ engine wear is better than with petrol . For example, the engine oil is as clean as new when you do the service.
2/ Fuel economy is about 15% worse than on petrol
3/ Engine output is much the same as for petrol
4/ Tankage tends to be smaller so the lpg range is smaller too. Depends on the particular installation but remember you have to keep the petrol tank anyway
5/ Whilst availability of LPG is quite good, you have to be organised and go looking for an lpg station rather than stop at the first supermarket. Combined with a lower range this means I end up spending twice as much time in filling stations as I used to.

Would I do it again? probably yes. Running costs are about 70% of the same car using diesel,and 50% of the same car using petrol

[Road_Terrorist]

Kieran XJR said:

I've read that LPG works well on large engines and can also give better performance than petrol due to a higher octane rating.

Pure propane is best and can have a very high octane rating, but to make LPG they mix in a percentage of butane so the quality can vary from place to place, but should still have an octane rating of around 110.

[E38]

Would be nice to put one in the wheel well of a E39 M5, shame BMW decided to put exhausts there instead...

[mft]

richyb said:

Kieran XJR said:

I've read that LPG works well on large engines and can also give better performance than petrol due to a higher octane rating.

OllieBirmingham said:

I heard the opposite....

I've heard both aswell!. I know a guy with a 200sx touring running on lpg and he thinks it works very well with a turbo but I also know someone with a Vovlo T6 who said it feels slower. I am not sure if these are both placebo's though to be honest.

LPG has a significantly higher octane rating than petrol, meaning if you set your engine up correctly to take advantage of it, you can get more power. This would typically involve being able to run more advance, or more boost in a forced induction engine.

However, LPG has a lower calorific value per unit volume, meaning you get a lower MPG, comparatively.

[DucatiGary]

supercharged 2007 range rover set up propper noticed no difference other than less mpg (5mpg if your curious)

was 7mpg on petrol

you just have to get a propper install, mine cost 2500 notes, no noticable difference other than the 49p per litre at the pump.