Latest SHS serial hybrid vehicles the way forward?
Discussion
My wife has run a Hybrid Yaris since 2014 it has been brilliant, we get it serviced just down the road at a pretty good main dealer in Waterlooville who also service my GR Yaris. Time the replace the Hybrid is coming up (100,000 miles near) and my attention has been drawn to some of the latest Chinese SUV's I am convinced the latest series type drive hybrid vehicles are for me, I like the idea of charging overnight then on long journeys rely on the petrol engine to eliminate range anxiety. Four wheel drive is an option on some which I think will suit me. Has anyone run a 4wd serial hybrid for any length of time and what is your opinion of them.
I saw a video the other day where someone was bragging that they were going to do these first fill up of the PHEV Jaecoo after 5 months.
They would have been better just buying an EV in the first place. If you are taking 5 months to use the fuel up for the times you exceed the 70 odd miles they do on electric then you don’t really need a petrol engine as a backup.
They would have been better just buying an EV in the first place. If you are taking 5 months to use the fuel up for the times you exceed the 70 odd miles they do on electric then you don’t really need a petrol engine as a backup.
Any car with an engine over 2 litres is the worst of all worlds. All that extra cost, weight and complication, and you can never use the performance anyway.
Any electric car with a battery over 50 kWh is the worst of all worlds. All that extra cost and weight, and you could easily just stop to charge more often.
Am I doing this right?
Isn't it funny how people who don't like hybrids/PHEVs always feel the need to trot out cliches when someone asks for actual user experiences.
First year anniversary of owning a PHEV Citroen C5X. Yesterday and today we've done 6 round trips to our local town On less than one overnight off peak charge. And that is with only a 12.4 kWh battery. In a month or two we plan to hit the Italian lakes for a couple of weeks from South West France. From last year's experience of the Scottish Highlands from South West France we can expect 50 mpg with no charge in the battery.
I know electric car ranges, charge speeds and second hand prices are all moving in the right direction, but when I was looking 12-18 months ago none of the desirable electric cars were in budget. (Second hand mid 20,000 euros). I have no regrets about the choice we made. Will the replacement be a BEV? Almost certainly, but that is 2-4 years away probably.
OP - you are the only one who knows the total distance you cover, and your mix of short and long journeys. But given the length of time that hybrid powertrains have been around, and the numbers in which they are selling I'd be fairly sanguine about choosing that technology if you think it suits your use case.
One other observation - if your medium length journeys are are at a steady 70-80 mph, you will see a lot lower range, and if that range is only 70-80 miles to start with it makes a big difference.
Any electric car with a battery over 50 kWh is the worst of all worlds. All that extra cost and weight, and you could easily just stop to charge more often.
Am I doing this right?
Isn't it funny how people who don't like hybrids/PHEVs always feel the need to trot out cliches when someone asks for actual user experiences.
First year anniversary of owning a PHEV Citroen C5X. Yesterday and today we've done 6 round trips to our local town On less than one overnight off peak charge. And that is with only a 12.4 kWh battery. In a month or two we plan to hit the Italian lakes for a couple of weeks from South West France. From last year's experience of the Scottish Highlands from South West France we can expect 50 mpg with no charge in the battery.
I know electric car ranges, charge speeds and second hand prices are all moving in the right direction, but when I was looking 12-18 months ago none of the desirable electric cars were in budget. (Second hand mid 20,000 euros). I have no regrets about the choice we made. Will the replacement be a BEV? Almost certainly, but that is 2-4 years away probably.
OP - you are the only one who knows the total distance you cover, and your mix of short and long journeys. But given the length of time that hybrid powertrains have been around, and the numbers in which they are selling I'd be fairly sanguine about choosing that technology if you think it suits your use case.
One other observation - if your medium length journeys are are at a steady 70-80 mph, you will see a lot lower range, and if that range is only 70-80 miles to start with it makes a big difference.
I've not long bought my first hybrid (Dacia Duster 140 full hybrid) and I'm really rather pleased with it.
I've come from a history of ratty old petrol and diesel models, and due to parking issues, have no way of charging an EV, so self charging hybrid was the logical solution.
1.6 auto lump is nothing special, but it's smooth enough. Combined with the electric gearbox/motor though, it's rather good. Plenty of power and torque, able to drive and on full EV mode for a surprisingly long time sub 30mph, and returning an average of 60mpg with a range of about 600 miles.
I do find myself trying to keep it in EV mode as much as possible, as it's notably smoother and "punchier", but overall I'm pleased with the whole package and would have another in a heartbeat, possibly one of the non ICE driven, range extender types that seem to be getting more popular though.
I've come from a history of ratty old petrol and diesel models, and due to parking issues, have no way of charging an EV, so self charging hybrid was the logical solution.
1.6 auto lump is nothing special, but it's smooth enough. Combined with the electric gearbox/motor though, it's rather good. Plenty of power and torque, able to drive and on full EV mode for a surprisingly long time sub 30mph, and returning an average of 60mpg with a range of about 600 miles.
I do find myself trying to keep it in EV mode as much as possible, as it's notably smoother and "punchier", but overall I'm pleased with the whole package and would have another in a heartbeat, possibly one of the non ICE driven, range extender types that seem to be getting more popular though.
RoadToad84 said:
I've not long bought my first hybrid (Dacia Duster 140 full hybrid) and I'm really rather pleased with it.
I've come from a history of ratty old petrol and diesel models, and due to parking issues, have no way of charging an EV, so self charging hybrid was the logical solution.
1.6 auto lump is nothing special, but it's smooth enough. Combined with the electric gearbox/motor though, it's rather good. Plenty of power and torque, able to drive and on full EV mode for a surprisingly long time sub 30mph, and returning an average of 60mpg with a range of about 600 miles.
I do find myself trying to keep it in EV mode as much as possible, as it's notably smoother and "punchier", but overall I'm pleased with the whole package and would have another in a heartbeat, possibly one of the non ICE driven, range extender types that seem to be getting more popular though.
Showing my ignorance of how these work...... Is the 60MPG average achieved without any electric charging? i.e. is all the battery charging dome via the petrol engine?I've come from a history of ratty old petrol and diesel models, and due to parking issues, have no way of charging an EV, so self charging hybrid was the logical solution.
1.6 auto lump is nothing special, but it's smooth enough. Combined with the electric gearbox/motor though, it's rather good. Plenty of power and torque, able to drive and on full EV mode for a surprisingly long time sub 30mph, and returning an average of 60mpg with a range of about 600 miles.
I do find myself trying to keep it in EV mode as much as possible, as it's notably smoother and "punchier", but overall I'm pleased with the whole package and would have another in a heartbeat, possibly one of the non ICE driven, range extender types that seem to be getting more popular though.
There's a decent case for them, yes. I assume you're thinking of something like the Leapmotor C10 range-extender, with 28 kWh battery plus 1.5L engine.
As you say, you should get most journeys done on battery. On a long trip, filling up with petrol won't just be quicker than recharging but quite a bit cheaper too. You also save 50% on the upcoming extra road tax from 2028.
The main downside to me would be you still have to maintain the petrol engine, although if buying new that's likely no big deal for the first several years.
Personally I'm happy with full EV, no issues driving to Vienna and Zurich and back, so not motivated to get a range extender. However they do seem like a good halfway house if you really have to do a lot of long journeys or just aren't confident in the public charging network, & you'd still get nearly all the benefits of EV.
As you say, you should get most journeys done on battery. On a long trip, filling up with petrol won't just be quicker than recharging but quite a bit cheaper too. You also save 50% on the upcoming extra road tax from 2028.
The main downside to me would be you still have to maintain the petrol engine, although if buying new that's likely no big deal for the first several years.
Personally I'm happy with full EV, no issues driving to Vienna and Zurich and back, so not motivated to get a range extender. However they do seem like a good halfway house if you really have to do a lot of long journeys or just aren't confident in the public charging network, & you'd still get nearly all the benefits of EV.
Fastpedeller said:
Showing my ignorance of how these work...... Is the 60MPG average achieved without any electric charging? i.e. is all the battery charging dome via the petrol engine?
Yep, there's no charging port on the car, it's purely charged through regen braking (almost a 1 pedal system, but not quite) and through ICE charging. The car maintains the battery level at about 50% during normal driving, and it cycles in and out of EV mode at motorway speeds. Round town/sub 30mph it'll drive quite happily on full EV mode until the battery runs out at which point the engine will kick in to top it up.
tr3a said:
Hybrids - of whatever type - are always a compromise. Worst of both worlds. The true way forward is fully electric. If you can charge at home, it's a no brainer.
The Yaris hybrid mange’s around 60mpg how is that worse than petrol. Further it requires no plugging in and no charging considerations.I would agree that a plug in hybrid being much more expensive and to gain any benefit you would end up charging most
days or not at all because it’s to much of a faf
Small ev’s some like the Renault 5 may look cute but have limited range and slow public charging, not so great. Handy
if you have a driveway for sure.
Regards the Chinese option you not be getting the service like you would from Toyota. Issues can come from delays getting parts and inexperienced dealers maybe google Tony Goodman omoda and see the issues he has been having.
RoadToad84 said:
Yep, there's no charging port on the car, it's purely charged through regen braking (almost a 1 pedal system, but not quite) and through ICE charging.
As far as I am aware, that sort of hybrid (HEV) will not be sold (new) in the UK after 2029;only PHEV (plug in hybrids) will be available from 2030 until 2034, although many industry
observers think that the target for the cessation of new car PHEV sales will be pushed back
beyond 2035.
PBCD said:
As far as I am aware, that sort of hybrid (HEV) will not be sold (new) in the UK after 2029;
only PHEV (plug in hybrids) will be available from 2030 until 2034, although many industry
observers think that the target for the cessation of new car PHEV sales will be pushed back
beyond 2035.
2030 is no pure IConly PHEV (plug in hybrids) will be available from 2030 until 2034, although many industry
observers think that the target for the cessation of new car PHEV sales will be pushed back
beyond 2035.
2035 is no IC
The Chinese are doing interesting things with hybrids., they've pushed up efficiency from 42% in something like a Prius to 49% in the latest Chinese ones. The IC engine in basically a generator though, with no desirable IC driving experience. So unless you are doing 250 mile trips with no convenient charging an EV is going to be better.
PBCD said:
As far as I am aware, that sort of hybrid (HEV) will not be sold (new) in the UK after 2029;
only PHEV (plug in hybrids) will be available from 2030 until 2034, although many industry
observers think that the target for the cessation of new car PHEV sales will be pushed back
beyond 2035.
No, they conceded that HEVs were allowed up till 2035 under the last set of changes as Nissan were threatening to throw their toys out of the pram only PHEV (plug in hybrids) will be available from 2030 until 2034, although many industry
observers think that the target for the cessation of new car PHEV sales will be pushed back
beyond 2035.
Mild-hybrids aren't allowed after 2029 though. Currently only a maximum of 20% of total car sales can be non-ZEV in 2030 with that reducing down to 0% for 2035 on. However Starmer promised this would be reviewed and then quit... so we're still waiting for what is actually going to happen with that.
tr3a said:
Hybrids - of whatever type - are always a compromise. Worst of both worlds. The true way forward is fully electric. If you can charge at home, it's a no brainer.
Alternatively, Hybrids are the best of all worlds. I get 60+ miles a day on electric, so don't have to use petrol, but when I do 500 miles a day (which I also do) I don't have to tit about waiting for chargers.It's horses and courses.
I suspect the thing that the Hybrid haters on here all conveniently forget is that a well engineered hybrid will be recovering energy during deceleration and braking in the same way as a full electric car and that ups the overall efficiency of the drive train. Whether that is enough to offset the extra weight depends on how you drive and how well engineered the overall package is. The extra electric torque also allows for higher gearing and a different map in the transmission, again improving efficiency.
“you might as well go full BEV”? Seems to be trotted out in every hybrid thread.
Well no thanks. I like the parsimony of local drives on electric, conveniently provided by my excess solar generation. Then I can tank down to London at 80-90MPH (where conditions allow obvs
) just under 300miles on half a tank of petrol without buggering about with charging stops. Usually at mid 30MPG.
How many old farts are there on here that cannot do a 3 hour drive without stopping? Seems too be nearly everyone who has an electric car
. Does sir have a tiny bladder? Well let me recommend this BEV over here.
PS We have two BEV’s in the family!
“you might as well go full BEV”? Seems to be trotted out in every hybrid thread.
Well no thanks. I like the parsimony of local drives on electric, conveniently provided by my excess solar generation. Then I can tank down to London at 80-90MPH (where conditions allow obvs
) just under 300miles on half a tank of petrol without buggering about with charging stops. Usually at mid 30MPG. How many old farts are there on here that cannot do a 3 hour drive without stopping? Seems too be nearly everyone who has an electric car
. Does sir have a tiny bladder? Well let me recommend this BEV over here.PS We have two BEV’s in the family!
Panamax said:
Personally, I think hybrids are brilliant. Great mpg with no range anxiety.
Perhaps that's why so many manufacturers are now moving in that direction. Toyota are particularly good at it.
It's easier to sell a PHEV than an EV, because people worry about not having an engine and fuel pump to rely upon. This is why manufacturers are so hot on PHEV's right now. But most people that have had a PHEV (in my experience on and off the forum) seem to then transition very easily to an EV for their next car. So PHEV is essentially a stepping stone car. In fact, they appear to be so effective at indirectly funnelling people to eventually driving an EV, that I fully expect manufacturers to be granted more time to produce PHEV's beyond the in place ICE ban dates around the world.Perhaps that's why so many manufacturers are now moving in that direction. Toyota are particularly good at it.
But whilst the psychology is easy to understand, the fact of the matter is that the greatest 'mpg' is EV, not hybrid. Range anxiety also won't really be a factor for the vast majority of motorists in practice.
Range anxiety is definitely a phenomenon mostly suffered by people that imagine driving an EV, not those that actually do!
The latest generation of EV's can do 400 miles real world range... If anyone wants to drive further than that without taking a break at least long enough to charge the car, they have far bigger problems than range anxiety.
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