Sub 1000kg electric British roadster with 275m range... £65k
Discussion
https://www.selectcarleasing.co.uk/news/article/lo...
I was loosely aware of this start up effort but didn't expect them to put out specs quite like this!
I'm sure there's a catch, probably safety related as I think they can dodge ncap at these production numbers?
If it's true and they actually work, they won't struggle to sell them all!
I was loosely aware of this start up effort but didn't expect them to put out specs quite like this!
I'm sure there's a catch, probably safety related as I think they can dodge ncap at these production numbers?
If it's true and they actually work, they won't struggle to sell them all!
Here's the elevator pitch:
“Amidst the e-mobility revolution, we have lost something important. Many modern ‘sportscars’ tip the scales at 1,500kg and BEVs can reach almost double that. There is a need for a more driver-oriented, featherweight, electric sportscar – one that is attainable and accessible, for those who love driving and the places it takes them. That is why we have created Longbow. Our first two cars, Speedster and Roadster embody everything a modern driver’s car should be: agile, balanced, electric, and exhilarating. We are reviving an icon, the lightweight British sportscar.”
Ok, I'd like to book a test drive please
“Amidst the e-mobility revolution, we have lost something important. Many modern ‘sportscars’ tip the scales at 1,500kg and BEVs can reach almost double that. There is a need for a more driver-oriented, featherweight, electric sportscar – one that is attainable and accessible, for those who love driving and the places it takes them. That is why we have created Longbow. Our first two cars, Speedster and Roadster embody everything a modern driver’s car should be: agile, balanced, electric, and exhilarating. We are reviving an icon, the lightweight British sportscar.”
Ok, I'd like to book a test drive please
kambites said:
I'd love to be wrong but... it's not going to happen is it? At least not with those specs at that price.
It's hard to see how it's possible unless the following aren't a factor:- Crash safety
- ABS
- Traction control
- Reliability
- All gadgets
But perhaps they've figured out that a very light bare bones electric car only needs a tiny battery to get the job done, so can be that cheap? If so the anticipated range would be BS but 100 miles still possible in the real world.
Or... Perhaps these first 150 cars are supposed to do nothing but build brand recognition, and will each effectively be sold at a huge loss. If they all get sold to influencers and celebs then that is probably why...
samoht said:
Also being discussed here https://www.pistonheads.com/news/electric-vehicles... FWIW
Oops, hadn't seen that. Although probably quite useful to have this thread in the EV forum too, because there are so many on this sub forum that go on about wanting a light and fun electric two seater. Now, maybe, they can.Absolute vaporware.
Only making 150 yet prices from £65k? How can they possibly make any money?
275 miles of range and <1000KG? They'll need a battery pack that weighs best part of 500kg and it's chassis is aluminium not carbon.. The BMW I3 was made of carbon/plastic and had a 30kWh battery but still weighed 1250KG.
Not a chance. They'll hoover up VC and Grant funding, burn through it and disappear without trace.
If you want a lightweight EV sportscar I'd suggest this is a lot more likely to see the light of day.
https://caterhamcars.com/en/models/projectv
Only making 150 yet prices from £65k? How can they possibly make any money?
275 miles of range and <1000KG? They'll need a battery pack that weighs best part of 500kg and it's chassis is aluminium not carbon.. The BMW I3 was made of carbon/plastic and had a 30kWh battery but still weighed 1250KG.
Not a chance. They'll hoover up VC and Grant funding, burn through it and disappear without trace.
If you want a lightweight EV sportscar I'd suggest this is a lot more likely to see the light of day.
https://caterhamcars.com/en/models/projectv
Edited by SWoll on Sunday 16th March 10:33
SWoll said:
Absolute vaporware.
Only making 150 yet prices from £65k? How can they possibly make any money?
275 miles of range and <1000KG? They'll need a battery pack that weighs best part of 500kg and it's chassis is aluminium not carbon.. The BMW I3 was made of carbon/plastic and had a 30kWh battery but still weighed 1250KG.
Not a chance. They'll hoover up VC and Grant funding, burn through it and disappear without trace.
If you want a lightweight EV sportscar I'd suggest this is a lot more likely to see the light of day.
https://caterhamcars.com/en/models/projectv
Possibly, although they have some respectable industry talent that probably would t want their onward careers sullied with a cash grab.Only making 150 yet prices from £65k? How can they possibly make any money?
275 miles of range and <1000KG? They'll need a battery pack that weighs best part of 500kg and it's chassis is aluminium not carbon.. The BMW I3 was made of carbon/plastic and had a 30kWh battery but still weighed 1250KG.
Not a chance. They'll hoover up VC and Grant funding, burn through it and disappear without trace.
If you want a lightweight EV sportscar I'd suggest this is a lot more likely to see the light of day.
https://caterhamcars.com/en/models/projectv
Edited by SWoll on Sunday 16th March 10:33
As per my earlier post, the other possibility is simply that they will lose money on each car for the same of cementing the brand.
Clearly something has to give, be it profit, reality or general safety and reliability if this car is to exist at that price point!
TheDeuce said:
Possibly, although they have some respectable industry talent that probably would t want their onward careers sullied with a cash grab.
As per my earlier post, the other possibility is simply that they will lose money on each car for the same of cementing the brand.
Clearly something has to give, be it profit, reality or general safety and reliability if this car is to exist at that price point!
TheAs per my earlier post, the other possibility is simply that they will lose money on each car for the same of cementing the brand.
Clearly something has to give, be it profit, reality or general safety and reliability if this car is to exist at that price point!
The numbers they are quoting don't add up, and these guys flit from one project to another getting paid handsomely for delivering bugger all..
SWoll said:
TheDeuce said:
Possibly, although they have some respectable industry talent that probably would t want their onward careers sullied with a cash grab.
As per my earlier post, the other possibility is simply that they will lose money on each car for the same of cementing the brand.
Clearly something has to give, be it profit, reality or general safety and reliability if this car is to exist at that price point!
TheAs per my earlier post, the other possibility is simply that they will lose money on each car for the same of cementing the brand.
Clearly something has to give, be it profit, reality or general safety and reliability if this car is to exist at that price point!
The numbers they are quoting don't add up, and these guys flit from one project to another getting paid handsomely for delivering bugger all..
If their intentions did happen to be genuine on this occasion, I would also doubt how likely it is they can succeed, although I'd always expect the final price and stats to change from what was put out in the initial press release anyway. You know the sort of thing... The cars will start for £65k, which is the 200hp version with 110 miles range. The fast version also has less range than initially hoped but will cost £20k more and be a bit slower due to factors we couldn't foresee at the time... blah blah blah...
I'm not interested in being unrealistic about this, but I do think it should be possible to get closer the the sort of car they're hyping than the mainstream manufacturers have managed (or been inclined to try) thus far.
The Tesla Roadster was an Elise with 53 kWh of batteries, and weighed 1300kg, of which 450kg was the batteries.
This would need a similar size battery pack to achieve 275 miles of WLTP range, assuming an optimistic 5 miles/kWh WLTP.
I guess they could take 150kg-200kg out of the car vs the Roadster, with a more modern battery pack and starting with a chassis designed for an EV, rather than adapting a petrol car. And a 10% 'creep' in actual kerb weight vs announced would probably be acceptable.
The question is, Lotus withdrew the Elise presumably as it wasn't profitable for them to make it any more. How many customers will be queueing up to pay more money for a more-or-less equally impractical car from an unknown brand, with no soundtrack or gears to engage with? I guess if they can plan it to be profitable on very small numbers, it could work.
This would need a similar size battery pack to achieve 275 miles of WLTP range, assuming an optimistic 5 miles/kWh WLTP.
I guess they could take 150kg-200kg out of the car vs the Roadster, with a more modern battery pack and starting with a chassis designed for an EV, rather than adapting a petrol car. And a 10% 'creep' in actual kerb weight vs announced would probably be acceptable.
The question is, Lotus withdrew the Elise presumably as it wasn't profitable for them to make it any more. How many customers will be queueing up to pay more money for a more-or-less equally impractical car from an unknown brand, with no soundtrack or gears to engage with? I guess if they can plan it to be profitable on very small numbers, it could work.
samoht said:
The Tesla Roadster was an Elise with 53 kWh of batteries, and weighed 1300kg, of which 450kg was the batteries.
This would need a similar size battery pack to achieve 275 miles of WLTP range, assuming an optimistic 5 miles/kWh WLTP.
I guess they could take 150kg-200kg out of the car vs the Roadster, with a more modern battery pack and starting with a chassis designed for an EV, rather than adapting a petrol car. And a 10% 'creep' in actual kerb weight vs announced would probably be acceptable.
The question is, Lotus withdrew the Elise presumably as it wasn't profitable for them to make it any more. How many customers will be queueing up to pay more money for a more-or-less equally impractical car from an unknown brand, with no soundtrack or gears to engage with? I guess if they can plan it to be profitable on very small numbers, it could work.
When discussing how much lighter a modern ground up equivalent of the original Tesla roadster could be, it's important to factor in that as the car gets lighter it can also go further with a smaller battery, which makes it lighter still. The effect of less weight on range isn't actually that big, because the weight of the car once rolling has a fairly minimal impact on range.. but if they could make the car 200kg lighter than we have seen previously, that would add a notable chunk of range.This would need a similar size battery pack to achieve 275 miles of WLTP range, assuming an optimistic 5 miles/kWh WLTP.
I guess they could take 150kg-200kg out of the car vs the Roadster, with a more modern battery pack and starting with a chassis designed for an EV, rather than adapting a petrol car. And a 10% 'creep' in actual kerb weight vs announced would probably be acceptable.
The question is, Lotus withdrew the Elise presumably as it wasn't profitable for them to make it any more. How many customers will be queueing up to pay more money for a more-or-less equally impractical car from an unknown brand, with no soundtrack or gears to engage with? I guess if they can plan it to be profitable on very small numbers, it could work.
As for the number of buyers interested in such a car, I agree it won't be very many. But 150 isn't very many, it would be easy to find that many punters if they were able to get close to what is being suggested.
The question is, is this optimism that will miss the promise by a noticeable but forgiveable margin, or complete and utter BS!?
I don't assume that with a singular purpose in mind, with zero concern about practicality, they couldn't get vaguely close to what they're talking about. It should be possible if we accept everything from range to price could be out by 10-20%, or whatever they think they can get away with. It would certainly be more realistic to expect a specialist start up to tick those boxes than a mainstream manufacturer, who obviously won't design a car for just 150 customers even if they technically could.
I'm trying to remain open minded and logical. Please don't think that means I'm not aware this could all be fluff
kambites said:
I'd love to be wrong but... it's not going to happen is it? At least not with those specs at that price.
I'd be skeptical at 1500kg, £ 100k and 150 mile range.
This sounds completely impossible.
Unless the thread title is correct and the range is actually 275m. I can do that for half that budget.
Edited by ZesPak on Monday 17th March 12:08
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